SR-72 Scaled model spotted landing Oct 16 2017 thread

a reply to: Winterpain

Maybe in a couple more years, but I'm willing to bet it won't be until it's caught in the wild.

a reply to: BASSPLYR

Yeah, I don't believe the pictures that show an inlet going into two separate engine cavities and shafts, one for low speed and one for high speed.

I have the feeling that may be more "conceptual", as in there is a lower speed mode and a higher speed mode, but one engine.

May have a whole lot of copper wires in it too?

a reply to: mbkennel

great US goverment PDF on MHD

a reply to: penroc3

yup, "axial hall effect MHD." The money slides are 17 and following.

ALso "shockless supersonic flow is possible" (p37) means 'potentially supersonic flight without sonic booms & associated unpleasantness."

As I seem to understand it, the physical principle is to ionize incoming hypersonic flow (discussion about 'nonequilibrium' pulsing which eliminates need to add alkali metals), then the incoming kinetic energy can be partially converted into electrical energy (in big wires). The slower air flow is now able to be processed by a conventional turbojet. Upon exit the airflow is further reaccelerated electromagnetically using the power which was extracted on the input and transmitted down the outside of the engine electrically.

So, like a turbofan is a mechanical bypass, this is like an electrical bypass, sort of.

You may also have heard of discussion of the P&W 'geared turbofan'---well the idea is that for efficient operation the fan speed doesn't want to be at the same speed as the combustion turbine (i.e. where the fuel is burned). What if there is NO mechanical connection between the combustion turbine and the fan turbine, only an electric motor type of connection, i.e. inducing currents/power which are then used to spin a rotor electromagnetically? With the proper control system then the fan could potentially be made to operate at a more ideal speed for the particular conditions vs a fixed mechanical ratio (1:1 or 2:1).

It's just like electric cars: serial vs a parallel hybrid. (I personally have an EV with a rare serial hybrid range extender, most are parallel hybrids).

a reply to: mbkennel

its pretty interesting they talk about NASA's two stage to orbit like it already exists(duh).


as you notice the sonic boom mitigation, so if they can do that with MHD why would they need to invest in oddly shaped quite boom aircraft? unless it makes it even better.


They show inlets made for mach 7 flights, and a real picture of that engine. i have seen a few thing moving very quickly and one that could have had a plasma bloom in front in front of it. I can only assume they are using microwaves to make the plasma and magnets to keep it off the skin of the craft.


as far as the P&W thing, maybe they didn't have to use physical blades to turn in one stage or the other. i can visualize it but it's hard for me to write

If something like this could work it would be a revolution in high speed engine.

originally posted by: penroc3
a reply to: mbkennel

as you notice the sonic boom mitigation, so if they can do that with MHD why would they need to invest in oddly shaped quite boom aircraft? unless it makes it even better.

Perhaps oddly shaped quiet boom aircraft are cheaper to make and can convince the public and Chinese copiers this is the evoloution tree to follow, similarly sell the patents to Civil Aircraft, all the while progressing a tech that will put the us at an advantage for many more years to come?

a reply to: penroc3


Maybe something like this engine is used on the "Green Lady"?

a reply to: Kurokage

could be, but i think or rather have my suspicions that something else is going on with the green lady. the persistent trail is very interesting, i guess it could have something to do with a older version of the MHD drive having to inject alkali metals or something to help the conductivity and the energy in the atoms have a short glow after they are ejected from the engine

a reply to: penroc3

No additives like alkali. The glow is intentional designed into the system. Its useful. Probably designed into all mhd varients high speed and slow.

But seriously guys we really shouldnt be talking about this particular aspect of the turbine. Trust me its not appreciated by the ptb. Im keeping my distance. You guys should too. I know i come across like a clown on ats but in all seriousness consider my warning on this one. Its better not to talk about this.

originally posted by: BASSPLYR
a reply to: penroc3

...
But seriously guys we really shouldnt be talking about this particular aspect of the turbine. Trust me its not appreciated by the ptb. Im keeping my distance. You guys should too. I know i come across like a clown on ats but in all seriousness consider my warning on this one. Its better not to talk about this.

Hey Bass, i understand your point. But what is discussed here, though sensitive, is based on public links everyone can find. I don't see until now someone has broken any law by speculating about engine tech based on real and public papers, not only presentations but patents also. In the end, belonging to ATS should mean an educated discerning to reach some level of truth. When somebody put some breadcrumbs, another one is gonna find something eventually.

Peace.

a reply to: Fastmover

Yeah but using the public available info no one here has figured out why and what the green is. Its purpose.

The problem is if you guys keep working on the problem youll figure it out. Its not something the govt wants figured out by the public and hence this thread is getting extra scrutiny by people out there.

Its not a fine line i want to walk. I dont need any phonecalls.

But if you guys do figure it out keep it via PM or something its a pretty cool advantage it gives the usa

a reply to: BASSPLYR

Roger.

a reply to: Fastmover

Just saying be careful . you guys are on the right track and eventually youll figure it out.

Just a quick question regarding the MHD stuff - I’m guessing that the NASA studies run in parallel with the black programs, but do they ever share information or is letting NASA study it a way of slowly taking it into the deep grey?

There seems to be a lot of crossover between NASA and some of the more exotic programs that are rumoured to be around.

a reply to: AussieNutter

It goes both ways. Sometimes NASA works on something and it works really well, and the military decides they're interested, other times they use them to bring stuff out.

a reply to: Zaphod58

You mean like Lockheed going " Hey! We have a quiet boom aircraft!.......I mean......we're developing a quiet boom aircraft!"

a reply to: Zaphod58

did you happen to catch that video i posted? i fixed the link.

******************************


i would assume anything i was able to gleen from papers on the internet(well hidden with key words and math but still there) are fair play. If by some miracle of a chance i accidentally stumbled upon something by working through it and i did get a call from someone i would never speak of it again.


but i imagine that if i can find this stuff then people who are much smarter than myself have found them as well. if not working along the same lines.

originally posted by: penroc3
a reply to: mbkennel

its pretty interesting they talk about NASA's two stage to orbit like it already exists(duh).


as you notice the sonic boom mitigation, so if they can do that with MHD why would they need to invest in oddly shaped quite boom aircraft? unless it makes it even better.

Well, I thought the "shockless" was referring to the inside of the engine

They show inlets made for mach 7 flights, and a real picture of that engine. i have seen a few thing moving very quickly and one that could have had a plasma bloom in front in front of it. I can only assume they are using microwaves to make the plasma and magnets to keep it off the skin of the craft.

What's the speed of sound(***) in these plasmas? If it is much larger than the speed of sound in regular air, and the aircraft is moving slower than the speed of sound in that thing, does it make a shock?

(***) When there are multiple modes of propagation (solutions to wave equation with varying eigenfunctions & velocities) there isn't one single speed of sound. Even in solid mechanics, like earthquakes, there are multiple speeds of sound as waves with varying polarizations propagate with varying speeds.

as far as the P&W thing, maybe they didn't have to use physical blades to turn in one stage or the other. i can visualize it but it's hard for me to write

The geared turbofan is just what it sounds like, regular fan and regular gears for commercial use. Nothing too out there.

a reply to: mbkennel

I believe you are right about the shock only applying to the engine/air intake flow.

I do remember at one point reading a theory that it may possible to remove the sonic boom using a plasma bubble or projected before the nose. I believe there was also mention of possibly using some type of sonic wave projected before the aircraft to move the air around the aircraft instead of over it, but it seems to me this would also prevent the air from moving over the wings/creating lift. So not sure how much weight these theories have.

~Winter