SCI/TECH: Canada Unleashes Terminator Bombshell

A leaked confidential document reveals that the Canadian government will attempt to overturn an international moratorium on Terminator sterilization technology at a UN meeting in Bangkok this week. Negotiators are instructed to "block consensus" on any other option. "The Canadian government is doing the dirty work for the multinational gene giants and the US government," says ETC Group Executive Director Pat Mooney. "Canada is about to launch a devastating kick in the stomach to the world's most vulnerable farmers - the 1.4 billion people who depend on farm saved seed." "Terminator" is the genetic modification that makes grain seeds sterile, and prevents small farmers from saving seeds for planting. The full leaked text of the Canadian government's instructions to its negotiators on Terminator/GURTS is posted at the ETC Group Organization's website.






The use of Terminator is seen as the death knell to small natural farming, and as forcing genetic modifications of food on the world.

"It is outrageous that Canada is backing an anti-farmer technology and shameful that it will 'block consensus' on any other outcome. Governments from around the world must not accept this bullying tactic," says ETC Group's Hope Shand. "If Canada blocks decision-making on this issue, the moratorium will be in jeopardy and terminator seeds will be commercialized ending up in the fields of small farmers."

The European Union supports the existing moratorium, and many African and Asian governments are calling for a ban on Terminator. Civil society and Indigenous Peoples in Bangkok want Canada to stop endorsing Terminator.


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[edit on 9-2-2005 by soficrow]

This is very scary. This is a bad thing for the seed stock and a potential risk for all of mankind if something were to go wrong with oneof their experiments. I believe it is for further control of the worlds population. Once all of the existing seed stock is gone and only there seed is available they can effectly control countries by threatening to not sell them seed for food thus killing many.

Originally posted by cryptorsa1001
This is very scary. This is a bad thing for the seed stock and a potential risk for all of mankind if something were to go wrong with oneof their experiments. I believe it is for further control of the worlds population. Once all of the existing seed stock is gone and only there seed is available they can effectly control countries by threatening to not sell them seed for food thus killing many.

...Terminator seed pollutes nearby crops and cross-pollinates - then the comapny sues the farmer for copyright infringement - and wins. So the farmer has to pay... his seed is polluted, and he needs to keep paying.


...the GM companies don't have to threaten to withold seed - small countries and small farmers can't afford to buy it. Mission accomplished. It's called an "economic barrier."


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Thank you, Soficrow. This reminds me, it is time to hoe the garden where I am living, so it will be ready to plant corn later. We grow Green Corn; the ears are white when you pick them to eat fresh, and Jade green when you leave them to dry for making seeds and hominy. These seeds have never been sold, just passed from mother to daughter forever.

If you have even a small space, even a window box, you should grow something ancient. Corn. Beans. Squash. Tomatoes. And save your seeds. There are community gardens in some cities you can help with. Some people even 'guerilla garden' (plant on abandoned lots). The Native American prophecies say the moderns are going to make some kind of titanic mistake that will wipe them out. It could be this foolish tampering with traditional foods in the name of 'profit'. This makes me cry.

You can find traditional seeds for sale here. Even if you don't have room to grow them, you can buy them to support traditional farmers. And you can buy organic foods to support open-pollinated agriculture and stay healthy. These are way different than hardware store 'hybrid' seeds.

I pray all the time for the food I eat now, and not just to say 'thanks' but 'I hope this is okay to eat'. Prions. Mercury. And bad seed.

Soficrow, do you think we have passed some kind of 'point of no return' or can we still save the world? How?

[edit on 9-2-2005 by Chakotay]

Its obivious to me since I live in a Canada.
The canadain govt has been cutting farm aid for mnay years now; in other words to drive out the little farmer out of busniess for the big corp. to take over the fields.

I believe this is not ethical to force small farmers especially those who struggle in poor countries to be forced into buying this one year only seed. Of course when did big business ever say that it was ethical and not lie through their teeth? It's sad that the Canadian government is joining big business in this effort. I guess big business money buys all the votes and political influence you need now in Canada as well.

Disclaimer: It may be true that not all of big business is so unethical but the bad apples almost always get grouped with the good and becomes one group. I suppose you could say that some CEO's really are practicing a motto of profit at all costs without worrying about ethics.

This has got to be the maddest baddest sh#t ever to come out of that continent!!
I applaude you for that message, as i feel it is truely a sit up and start to protest moment in our survival race.

My aunt farms 10,000 acres here in the Uk, and i asked her about this seed... she went flippy when she read it...
heres her thoughts.
" If you use this seed on your farms, you will be owned by the companies who make it. You may own the land, but what good will it be to you if you have no seed to plant, which means no crop to harvest, which means no food to eat? You will be owed because the companies will make you pay for ever more to farm your own land."

Please refrain from bypassing the profanity censors in this or any thread. Thanks

Wow we now have nuclear proliferation and agricultural non proliferation news on the same day.... This is getting good. Seriously these are two of the scariest articles I have seen, this should be a wake up call.

This is scarry. It goes way beyond mere profiteering or even oppression of poor nations. This is about control of the food supply. Think about it; they are going to drive natural crops into extinction in many parts of the world, and in the future if you don't play ball with the NWO you can't eat, and growing your own will not be an option.
Ok, finish rolling your eyes and fix them back on the screen. This is a legitimate concern. I'm not saying that the evil powers that be are planning to starve everyone who doesn't surrender their sovreignity. I'm just saying that a few giant corporations capable of being controlled by the nations which host them will have it within their power to with hold food supplies, and in time of war this would almost certainly happen.

I have a developing opinion that the 3rd world needs to start standing up for itself against 1st world bullying. They need to withold their resources, pitch their collective weight against us in the UN, including attempts to expell members who support Terminator, and if need be I think this is one of those issues they should be willing to fight a war over. Just for example, if I'm the Iraqi interim government I'd be planning for the moment the US leaves so that I could cooperate with Iran on an invasion of Saudi Arabia and withhold oil supplies until they give us natural crops again. They'd get their butt kicked, but how many times do you think corporate gangsters can go fight over there before its not worth the money?

Bah! I'm so disappointed! When I read the headline of the story I thought Canada had invested in a bunch of Cyberdyne Systems Model 101 Series T-800 Terminators, ready to kick the arse of anyone who messed with their country. I feel very let down...

YES SOFICROW,
good post, and one im not going to beat you with, in fact im going to seek MORE guidance on this...

Im not quite clear here, aside from the conspriace to drive out small farms, why one would make such a seed...what is the purpose..to make plants that dont have seeds in them? How do you continue to grow that crop next year?

I must be missing something here, but this doesnt sound like a good idea from what i do get of this.

Originally posted by CazMedia
Im not quite clear here, aside from the conspriace to drive out small farms, why one would make such a seed...what is the purpose..to make plants that dont have seeds in them? How do you continue to grow that crop next year?

I must be missing something here, but this doesnt sound like a good idea from what i do get of this.

It's not seedless even, it's just crops whose seeds are sterile. The goal if i understand correctly is to make you buy new genetically modified seeds every year. I was unable to find out exactly how they produce these, but it seems likely that the seeds are infected with a harmless virus which acts as a vector for gene therapy and causes a defect which changes the makeup of the seeds produced by the crop, making them unviable without affecting the ability of the original seed to germinate.

I'm not exactly sure how this legally works either. If I'm not mistaken somebody has actually managed to patent the genetic makeup of modern modified crops.

Solution : Don't buy genetically modified produce. If the farmers plant organic crops, for which there is a demand, then they are free to replant the following year. The only problem here is the contamination of organic crops with pollen from the genetically modified stock.

Now here's a thing. What happens if the "terminator" gene is carried in pollen to wild non-food stocks. A large Canadian desert ?

woh...wait a minute here!!!

what exactly does this strain do?.....does it cross furtilize with natural ungenetically altered strains and render them sterile??...
cause if not........
isn' this a good thing?

small farmers in canada have been getting sued for years over the odd pattented plant popping up in their crops because the pollin floats over the fence and the "altered" genes mix with the farmers strain....

this way at least the crops arent reproductivly compattable....thats GOT to be a good thing...

and to john nada....ya...i thought the same thing about terminators when i read the title of this thread myself...lol

[edit on 10-2-2005 by Urn]

small farmers in canada have been getting sued for years over the odd pattented plant popping up in their crops because the pollin floats over the fence and the "altered" genes mix with the farmers strain....

This is mostly a ploy to get the family farmers land. There is an organization that is helping small farmers out. I have contributed to them for years now.

Farmaid.org

Farmaid sent me an e-mail about this subject late last year. I sent an e-mail to my state and federal represenatives asking them not to go through with this. I suggest you guys do the same and get your friends and family to get involved.

here are a few links to sites about good food you may be interested in.

eatwell

organic consumers

eco labels

Here is another link talking about a trade agreement trying to force

[edit on 10-2-2005 by cryptorsa1001]
terminator technology on Thailand.

[edit on 10-2-2005 by cryptorsa1001]

[edit on 10-2-2005 by cryptorsa1001]

Originally posted by Urn
woh...wait a minute here!!!

what exactly does this strain do?.....does it cross furtilize with natural ungenetically altered strains and render them sterile??...
cause if not........
isn' this a good thing?

small farmers in canada have been getting sued for years over the odd pattented plant popping up in their crops because the pollin floats over the fence and the "altered" genes mix with the farmers strain....

this way at least the crops arent reproductivly compattable....thats GOT to be a good thing...

and to john nada....ya...i thought the same thing about terminators when i read the title of this thread myself...lol

[edit on 10-2-2005 by Urn]

Patented crops are patently ridiculous. We're toying with people's ability to eat in the name of profit. We need to look at government funding for modified crops and creative foreign trade programs to increase the demand for crops. Manipulating supply of vital resources to force the price up just isn't the answer. The markets are there- people are starving and governments are paying farmers NOT to grow crops. All we have to do is be creative about methods of payment to open up those markets in impovrished nations.

From here on I'll be digressing into underlying topics, not 100% touching on Terminator.

For example you take a nation which has a high rate of unemployment, few resources, but relative political stability. This nation may have a neighbor which has many resouces but is unstable. You trade food, education, infrastructure, etc for peacekeepers from that nation who help stabilize the neighboring nation and open up development and trade of the neighbors resouces for which you can also feed and build the neighboring nation in trade. That nation grows rich and inevitably will need more domestic consumers, more resources, more habitable land or whatever the case may be, so it can annex a smaller unstable nearby nation and your trade spreads to that nation. If this smacks of imperialism that's because it IS imperialism. The thing is we are already engaged in imperialistic ventures, except that rather than opening up mutually beneficial trade which builds an economy in the other nation, we have sent our own companies in to do the work thereby keeping most of the profit in our own economy and out of theirs. This is self defeating in the national sense of course, although very lucrative for corporations, because for every nation we leave in chaos there are fewer resources, more expenditures on aid and peacekeeping, more threats to global security, and fewer markets for export.

China, being major exporters, are far more likely to take up such a burden than America. Mark my words as time goes on China is going to take an active interest in nation building in South America and Africa and it's going to pay off very nicely for them.

How the terminator gene operates



[edit on 10-2-2005 by Nygdan]

From the above

either end of the blocking DNA are put special DNA pieces that can be recognized by a particular enzyme, such as the enzyme called recombinase. Whenever the recombinase encounters these DNA pieces, the DNA is cut precisely at the outside of each piece, and the cut ends of the DNA fuse together, with the result that the blocking DNA is removed. When this happens, the seed-specific promoter is right next to the toxin coding sequence, and is able to function in making the toxin[...] The Terminator patent solves the dilemma by preventing recombinase from acting until just before the farmers plant their seeds.

So recombinase will occur naturally and must be prevented to allow seeds to sprout.

They propose putting a recombinase coding sequence next to a promoter that is always active -- in all cells, at all times -- but that is repressed. The promoter can be made active again -- derepressed -- by a chemical treatment. Therefore, the seed sellers can treat the seeds right before planting, thus allowing the recombinase to be made then, but not before.[...] They propose putting a recombinase coding sequence next to a promoter that is always active -- in all cells, at all times -- but that is repressed. The promoter can be made active again -- derepressed -- by a chemical treatment. Therefore, the seed sellers can treat the seeds right before planting, thus allowing the recombinase to be made then, but not before.

So instead they've made additional modifications, so that the seeds have to be treated in order to produce sterile seeds. And they don't give the farmers actual seeds, but very immature seedlings.

Thus, after the recombinase enzyme does its work, the plant grows normally from germination, through growth of stems, leaves, roots, and all the way through flower formation, pollination and most of seed development. Then, on cue, the seeds die.

Will the Terminator spread to other plants?

It is likely that Terminator will kill the seeds of neighboring plants of the same species, under certain conditions.

Bad news, but also a requirement of GM tech, to prevent spreading.

The scenario might go like this: when farmers plant the Terminator seeds, the seeds already will have been treated with tetracycline, and thus the recombinase will have acted, and the toxin coding sequence will be next to the seed-specific promoter, and will be ready to act when the end of seed development comes around. The seeds will grow into plants, and make pollen. Every pollen grain will carry a ready-to-act toxin gene. If the Terminator crop is next to a field planted in a normal variety, and pollen is taken by insects or the wind to that field, any eggs fertilized by the Terminator pollen will now have one toxin gene. It will be activated late in that seed's development, and the seed will die.

Only when that seed is planted, and doesn't germinate, will the change become apparent.

Dear god that could be a disaster. They won't know until the growing season has started? Would this not mean that they can't replant?

Terminator has been proposed as a method to prevent just such escapes of GMOs and their genes. However, Terminator is not likely to function well for such purposes[...]
is unlikely that any tetracycline treatment will be 100% effective. For various reasons, some seeds may not respond, or take up enough tetracycline to activate recombinase. In such cases, the plants growing from the unaffected seeds would look just like all the others, but would grow up to make pollen carrying a non-functional toxin gene.

GM crops have to be made so as to not hybridize with non modified types. This, apparently, does not do that. It simply kills hybrids.

Google Scholar Results on terminator Seed
Some of the criticism is over plants that haven't had the terminator gene activated cross pollinating with other plants and resulting in a spread of the terminator technology into the regular plants, but the terminator technology requires activation by treatment with anti-biotics, in fact a specific anti-biotic, so I don't see that as being a very likely problem. One might ask, 'what if the repressor gene becomes non functional'? This would probably happen via mutation, occuring in germline cell formation, and result in a plant producing pollen that can hybridize with regular plants and 'terminate seed sprouting'. But that effect in itself won't 'spread', it will be limited to one generation, and might, conceivably, be countered by cross fertilization with plants that do have a functional repressor gene..

Nevertheless, it is not permissable to have a 'seed function termination' sequence in the regular population of plants.

I've got to say, this does seem like a bad technology that Monsanto has purchased. However, they have decided to not use it. This new canadian issue shows that there might need to be global regulations about it.

Where are the third world countries that would suffer from this on this matter? They need to promote it in the UN and other global forums.

Instead of producing dud seeds, which will allways be a danger, perhaps producing plants that don't produce pollen would be a better idea? Plants that can't fertilize?

Originally posted by John Nada
Bah! I'm so disappointed! When I read the headline of the story I thought Canada had invested in a bunch of Cyberdyne Systems Model 101 Series T-800 Terminators, ready to kick the arse of anyone who messed with their country. I feel very let down...

Gotcha! ...Fyi - it's hard to write short headlines.

Also FYI - with this kind of Terminator, corporations won't need the US military to front run for them any more, nor any Cyberdine Terminators...


Good links cryptorsa1001 and Nygdan. Thanks. ...and thanks for all the info and discussion everyone.


Chakotay asks,
...do you think we have passed some kind of 'point of no return' or can we still save the world? How?

My response: IMO - the world will save herself. It's humanity we need to worry about. The way it's playing, there is a 'chosen elite' slated for survival. The rest of us are being thrown to the wolves.

How can we stop it?

astral ice says - this should be a wake up call.

MadGrimbo says, truely a sit up and start to protest moment


...People don't care because they don't understand the science and economics - most think it's all "too complicated." ...We need to educate, and explain simply, respectfully and patiently how it works, and how we're getting shafted. ...AND that we're picking up the tab for our own executions, by allowing our hard-earned tax dollars go to support international corporations. ...and we need to be repetitive. That's the secret and strength of the corporate marketing campaigns - if you hear something a 1000 times, it must be true...

We need to fight back - for the hearts and minds of ordinary people - for our planet, and our lives... We CAN stop it. But it's gonna be tight.



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