Brainstorming the end of the Federal Reserve Bank

Something I've been pondering for a while...

I personally believe that a lot of what ails the United States can be traced to the Federal Reserve Bank. I am convinced that ending the Fed is in the best interests of the American people. Some of you may disagree, and I will address you first.

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If you are here to extol the virtues of the Federal Reserve debt based fiat currency system, then you are in this thread for the wrong reasons. My objective here is to discuss with like minded people possible ways to rid ourselves of the Fed. Of course, I don't want to stop you from expressing your opinion on the Fed; I couldn't do it if I wanted to. I'm simply saying that I want this thread to be a relatively "clean" discussion on ending the Fed.

If you like what the Federal Reserve does for and to the US, I would plead with you to start a thread on that topic. I'm sure I would join in at some point, nearly everyone on this thread would join in, and you would get lots of replies and stars and flags and trophies and whatever attaboys ATS has to offer.

However, if you have any ideas on how to end the Fed, problems that might be encountered in trying to end the Fed, or suggestions on dealing with the aftermath, please contribute. I'm not trying to be a jerk. It's just that we all know how contentious threads can devolve in to insults, name calling, partisanship, etc. I just want this to be a civil discussion about possibilities. Thank you for your understanding.

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Now, I've been trying to figure out how the American people could try to rid ourselves of the Fed. I think it's reasonable to assume that no matter how many people in this country would like to see the Fed go away, we will not be able to count on the support of the Executive Branch, the Judicial Branch, or Congress. In fact, I'm sure that we can count on active opposition from the Government, the Banks, the Military Industrial Complex, other countries, etc.

That being the case, the simple "education" is not the answer. Governments control the media and the educational system; banks control the government. Even if those barriers were overcome and 90% of the population wanted and end to the Fed, the Government would not allow it.

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So, I've been thinking: what if a significant portion of the US population refused to accept Federal Reserve Notes (FRNs). At this point, there is no law that says you *must* accept FRNs, only that they are legal tender. So, you have enough people that want to get rid of the Fed, they could agree that the best course of action is to make FRNs worthless if no one wants them. Large groups of people demand to be paid in something other than FRNs (gold, silver, Bitcoin, whatever.) Stores that refuse to accept FRNs. That sort of thing.

Even if you could get 2/3 of the population to agree to something like that, you're going to run in to a lot of obstacles.

First and foremost, would run into the the enforcement arm of the Fed: the IRS. The IRS only accepts payment in FRNs, and that's not likely to change. So if you run a business or pay income tax, you're going to need FRNs to give to the IRS or you will go to jail.

The closest solution I've seen to that is to deal only in US Silver Eagles. Since they are legal US tender with a face value of $1 and a FRN value of $16.58 (26 Jul 17), they significantly reduce your tax liability. Of course, if a few businesses do that, the government will shut down the businesses long enough to ruin them. If a lot of businesses do that, laws will be changed to make it illegal. Worst case scenario, the Fed could stop the Mint from producing Silver Eagles. If we go with other silver bullion or another commodity, conversions would be an accounting mess. There would be no restriction on the Fed setting exchange rates (i.e. silver is worth 30 cents an ounce.) They could do that through LIBOR or by simply hoarding and restricting natural resources the way DeBeers does with diamonds. When you can print all the money you need, you can buy up anything.

Second obstacle, the banks would oppose any effort to eliminate the demand for FRNs. They would not want to hold silver deposits on account. They would not want to issue credit cards that paid in something other than FRNs. They would not want to make loans based on silver, gold, or Bitcoin, or anything they couldn't create out of thin air to "loan" out.

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There are many other institutions that depend forcing people who haven't been born yet to pay for things they want today. The Military Industrial Complex, for one. We can expect these institutions to actively oppose any effort do away with a debt based fiat currency system.

So the questions are: what would be the best way for a large portion of the American people to end the Federal Reserve or any system like it? How do we deal with the inevitable opposition? What are the negative effects of eradicating a debt based fiat currency system, and how do we deal with them?

a reply to: VictorVonDoom

I'll be watching this thread with interest! (no pun...well maybe, pun intended)

First and foremost, eliminate as much debt as possible. A clean slate is best for building a new foundation. Personal loans, student loans, credit cards and mortgages. Many don't understand that a large portion that banks and thus the FED make off of consumers simply being in debt and not what is paid in interest. That is a broken system as we know.

Above that, I don't know but will be anxiously waiting to see some theories.

a reply to: JinMI

I've been telling my mates for years to lower debt, sad reality is most run on debt in this country and without it would be screwed.

Personally I'm renting for the next 10 years, I have land near the ocean I own, I will build slowly over the next ten years to avoid borrowing .

Crunching the numbers if all goes well I will be further ahead and with far less stress .


OP, love your work, end the fed.

What do you suggest should replace it?

In which ways would the new system be better than the old one?

Best thing would be if it would be interest-free, but where would be the incentive for the people owning the "New Bank" to do so? Because how would they make a living for themselves?

On which basis should a new legal tender be based upon? Gold? Doesn't work, there is not enough gold. GOP? Well, that is the way it is working right now.


If you don't want to change substantiell ways in banking, you would always end up with something looking suspiciously identical to the FED.
Fantazise all you want about "removing", but you have to have a plan about what comes afterwards!

Go to the Boston Fed Reserve Bank publications link.....

There's one named road to roots

That's Greenspan exit plan..... it has the formula for redistribution for after the banks fail......this is planned out to let the central banks hang themselves

a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

Most do run on debt...almost like it was by design.

We've been to the barber and fleeced. We don't own our property. We don't own our currency. The two things that are thought to accumulate and achieve wealth.

To move back to the OP's premise. Currency is a placeholder. Something to carry the value of the thing that actually carries value. It could be anything but we've been programmed to believe that it has to be signified pieces of synthetic paper. Only because we believe it does it remain.

a reply to: VictorVonDoom
Obviously I would love to return to commodoity based real trading, that will be fun again. I want to be able to settle my payments in eggs, seeds, water, gold, silver, copper, lead and other such real items. Some states are repatriating bullion into their economies by amending tax codes to exempt status on constitutional grounds. I feel a continued trending in this direction could help combat FED Reserve Banking market share away from notes and into sovereign money and resources as trade.

These tax and legal code changes opening access to blockchain commerce is also showing promising growth. I love my country as much as the next person, but am more than satisfied to watch it sit out for a break from world financial affairs if it can combat what the FRB is all about. Maybe we can even see serious growth in public outrage through social media confronting the existence of FRB within the next decade.
a reply to: GBP/JPY

I have read a little into it when I first saw it mention in another thread. It is actually quite alarming and damning, and I suggest it to others. I have not fully disseminated it yet though and am continuing to study it for queues playing out in the current events.

I believe blockchain was involved, which is critical as Delaware just legalized it as a transaction medium for their stock trading and record keeping. Quantum hacking becomes a threat perhaps??

I want to thank everyone for their replies thus far. I didn't expect such reaction this quickly. I want to respond to what I can, I'll be hitting the sack soon.

a reply to: JinMI

I like that. With debt gone, the FRNs would disappear. The problem is: people need to borrow. People trying to afford college, young couples trying to buy a house, etc. There are good reasons to go into debt, primarily when it will pay off in the long run. There are also bad reasons to go into debt. Such as financing a depreciating asset, like a car, or a TV, or a war. So, ideally, we still need a way for people with good reasons to borrow (as in an investment) to get money without creating "money" out of thin air.

a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

That works on an individual level. Minimize debt, pay as you go, don't buy frivolous crap, you'll be better in the long run. But that doesn't end the Fed. The Fed will do it's best to make sure people like you are in the minority. They want people in debt, that's what keeps their "economy" going. That's why we have ads on TV, YouTube, ATS, any mass media available. Buy, buy, buy, and if you have to go in to debt, keep buying.

How do we get more people to think like you do?

We can't do it through the educational system. We can't do it through the media. It seems all we have is one on one communication, and I'm not sure that's enough.

a reply to: VictorVonDoom

People trying to afford college, young couples trying to buy a house, etc. There are good reasons to go into debt, primarily when it will pay off in the long run.

If you're talking about breaking the loose gravel foundation upon which our nation and others are built, then new ideas should be an easy argument.

-College. To many folks dismay, it just is not for everyone. Especially fresh out of high school. Knowledge is great and as human beings we should all strive to gain as much as possible. There are other methods to acquiring it not found in the halls of higher learning.

-Buying homes. I can sort of agree with this..sort of. When I look at let's say my home, which is around 120 years old, I think "how much has been paid in interest over that time?" That house has made the banks more in interest than it will ever be worth. Because of thirty year, inflated home prices, we have created this carefully calculated percentage of interest pursuant to the neighborhood and general wages of those that live there. It's artificial segregation based on class. (We could spend a long time on this topic alone but I'll move on.)

Simple response is that if you are in favor of any sort of debt, than something just as or moreso vile that the FED will remain. Greed seems to be inherent in us humans and it takes some work to absolve yourself of it.

This isn't coming from a holier than thou stance although reading it back it seems like it. I just think it's equally as important to forge new ideas and a different line of thinking if you're talking about disrupting the well thought out machine that is the FED.

Of all places for Greenspan to hide ROAD TO ROOTA

The only place for the download......there at the Boston Fed

You also get the teachers edition download from Greenspan...has the freakin redistribution after the crash formula......it's social security rank and it says they give to the oldest first for some reason

a reply to: JinMI

I see what you are saying. I think the solution is that currency should have actual value. FRNs depend on a perceived value. Gold, for instance, has an actual value. It is useful for things other than currency. In some instances, it's almost indispensable. Where would we be in space exploration or computer technology without gold? Can you shove FRNs into a a computer to make it run better?

The properties of gold make it useful. Hell, even corn is useful; you can eat it. I think the placeholder that we use for currency should have a value other than currency. That keeps the currency from being devalued by people that can manipulate currency for their own gain.

I hope that made sense.

a reply to: VictorVonDoom

It does and I agree. That is the type of thinking needed IMO. Corn can also be turned into alcohol. Fuel and fun! That instantly has more value than a currency.

I see it through this lense:

"Hey I have this alcohol here and I want some of your lumber that you cut."

"Ok, sure. Just go to a bank and get me some paper, then come back so I can go to the bank with that paper so they can hold onto it."

I realize this is nothing compared to building capitol nor a society for that matter, however this is how a large portion of daily transactions occur.

Dammit, guys (and gals), I was afraid of making this thread. I didn't think there would be this much response this early. Truth is, it's almost 3 am here, I have to get up at 7 am, and I feel obligated to respond to each and every poster here. This is why I don't author many threads.

I do appreciate the responses and I will try to respond to every relevant post as time permits.

This is going to suck up a lot of my free time.

a reply to: VictorVonDoom

So, I've been thinking: what if a significant portion of the US population refused to accept Federal Reserve Notes (FRNs). At this point, there is no law that says you *must* accept FRNs, only that they are legal tender. So, you have enough people that want to get rid of the Fed, they could agree that the best course of action is to make FRNs worthless if no one wants them. Large groups of people demand to be paid in something other than FRNs (gold, silver, Bitcoin, whatever.) Stores that refuse to accept FRNs. That sort of thing.

This part of your plan is a no go. The whole point in "legal tender" is that you have to accept that currency as payment for debts. You can place limits on the forms of that currency that you'll accept (such as no pennies, no cash, no denominations over $20, etc), but you'd still have to accept a form of US Dollars as payment (be it a check, a money order, credit cards, etc).

Legal Tender Status

The pertinent portion of law that applies to your question is the Coinage Act of 1965, specifically Section 31 U.S.C. 5103, entitled "Legal tender," which states: "United States coins and currency (including Federal reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal reserve banks and national banks) are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues."

This statute means that all United States money as identified above are a valid and legal offer of payment for debts when tendered to a creditor. There is, however, no Federal statute mandating that a private business, a person or an organization must accept currency or coins as for payment for goods and/or services. Private businesses are free to develop their own policies on whether or not to accept cash unless there is a State law which says otherwise. For example, a bus line may prohibit payment of fares in pennies or dollar bills. In addition, movie theaters, convenience stores and gas stations may refuse to accept large denomination currency (usually notes above $20) as a matter of policy.

Also, States can require that businesses accept cash (physical bills).

Is it Legal to Refuse Cash Payment

State Law May Require a Private Business to Accept Cash

Although as a general rule a private business may restrict or refuse to accept cash payments, at times states will mandate that a business accept cash or limit any restrictions a business may impose on cash payments. For example, some states require that a landlord accept rent payments in cash. Many states require that a private impound lot accept cash payments by an owner seeking the release of a motor vehicle.

When acceptance of a cash payment is required by state law, the state will often impose a penalty or other consequence on a business that refuses to accept cash. For example, in California a landlord's refusal to accept cash payment of rent may cause the payment to be deemed excused. The failure to comply with state law subject a business to possible investigation by the state, and to possible fines for its non-compliance with the law or in some contexts even to a potential criminal penalty.

Not to mention, the IRS also technically has tax on all bartering (HERE), though most people don't seem to follow it.

Either way, you're still playing with legal fire by advocating trade in non-USD forms. Not many legit businesses are going to completely reject US currency, especially when they still have to pay their taxes, fines, and business fees in US Dollars. They can't and won't pay their workers & lawyers in bartered goods, much less pay their utility bills, property taxes (or leases), or insurance costs in bartered goods. In fact, many smaller businesses & entrepreneurs prefer to deal in cash specifically so they can "accidentally" under report how much income they've made.

Nothing has intrinsic value.....

We think cryptocoins have value due to the time invested.....Silver is best since these days manufacturing needs it all........they're thinking basket of commodities for a currency base.

The new platforms fixin to take over business....truth platforms....peer to peer direct instead of an exchange that's crooked.....those platforms will change society.....Etherium or Veritaseum......they're truth platforms for computing....the.Jamaica Exchange is starting up with veritaseum

Buy veritaseum this week if you're gonna....

a reply to: ManFromEurope

The ONLY answer imo, is a decentralized currency system. Interest is impossible to avoid unfortunately i think, but rates could be limited. No more creating money out of thin air. We need a system that can be audited and verified at anytime by anyone. Yes I will say it, something like Bitcoin - a cryptocurrency. But without a central bank, without a dev holding, without 'mining farms,' with a fair and equal distribution system. How would this be possible? I dont know to be honest - (the 1% would still happen regardless, although it could take a long time with an even distribution and even stakings regardless of holdings - in which case maybe companies whom still accumulate '1%er' values over a long period deserve it due to their contribution to society, jobs etc) , unless the issuing authority is simply a public group who can not control the money at their own will. Every transaction must be approved by the majority of the network. The network being composed of every single individual of proper age.

Will tptb ever willingly let this happen? I doubt it. But the people must demand it. The OP's idea of people refusing to accept reserve notes anymore is wonderful. But good luck getting the corporation and banks (the biggest money movers in the country) to do this. It would be an end to their hold over us.

It is a very complex problem that many people are trying to solve. When it comes to corporations - their decisions and moves should be decided by the public as a whole. The creators or head of said companies should still be able to profit, otherwise where is the incentive for anybody to bring about great things. But the amount of their profits and power should be decided upon by everyone. Banks should not exist at all. Instead only private individuals should be able to loan out monies in a fair manner and lose or win without crushing those they lend to.

I realize I am rambling, but it is a very complicated issue. Sure it would be great to only trade physical commodities but that simply is not practical for the world we live in today. There must be a 'fiat' in one form or another. It has always happened throughout history and always will.

Simply eliminating the ability to create 9x more money out of nothing using a cryptocurrency method would certainly help a lot imo. There would not be nearly as much debt because that money cannot be owed to anyone if it never existed and was thus not able to be given in the first place.

The entire thing is a sham, that is the underlying problem. The government or a federal reserve should not be granting legal tender status to anything. It should be the people as a whole doing so.

a reply to: GBP/JPY

mind telling me what the Jamaica exchange is? Cryptonaut here

In line with your request in OP I will limit my points the idea it needs replaced.

As ManfromEurope pointed out the key thing to any discussion on replacing it is what you replace it with. You probably have to define what about the current system you don't like and take it from there

In the end the only real way of making any real change is through the democratic process. If there is a better model then persuade enough people of that and get them to support a party that agrees.