The FBI ran a child porn site to catch predators, and now the accused are crying foul.

"Not only was the government the largest distributor of child pornography ... it was also the largest exploiter of children," Pawlak’s attorney said in a court filing. "This conduct is the essence of outrageousness, and a serious need for deterrence exists."
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Dozens of defense attorneys have filed motions to suppress evidence from the controversial child pornography sting, called Operation Pacifier. In some cases, federal judges have granted those motions. But most attempts to get charges thrown out have failed, legal experts say, even though some judges have ruled that the government violated the law and acted inappropriately.

The FBI ran a child porn site to catch predators, and now the accused are crying foul.

This is egregious. I don't know what to say.

ETA: Lawyers are scumbags..enuf said about that.

I understand that you have to lay with the wolves to catch them, but I think this is a bit too far. I just hope that any who are caught with this tactic are brought to justice.

Yet also fear this tactic as being too...lost for words..It cannot be the most effective method to bring these culprits to light. I believe they can just monitor the sites that already exist to catch criminals. No need to effectively run a child porn ring to bring them to justice.

I hate to do so but i am not going to reply until morning, if need be. Just wanted to shine the light.

"Not only was the government the largest distributor of child pornography

That is like being the largest supplier of drugs on the street while flying under the banner "The war on drugs". You cannot consolidate that realistically under any sort of pretense. Trying catch these people sure ok but not while turning yourself in the biggest supplier.

Something tells me something is not right there at the FBI.

So....the FBI is telling me that, with the most sophisticated surveillance network on the planet, they can't just trace the scum who visit these sites? Hmm. Something stinks.
Maybe ask the NSA for help?

Not only are they the biggest distributor and possesor of child porn, but there was a article recently where they let a pedo off scott free because they wouldnt reveal how they gathered the evidence against him.

FBI collects kiddie porn, and keeps pedos on the streets

Let the courts decide if the sting operation is constitutional.
At least they are trying to stop it on a major scale.
These people are near impossible to catch and with the internet and electronic masking some type of outside the box operation had to be attempted.

We shall see, that's why there is a appeals process.

Buck

And people wonder why foodgate isnt being investigated

If the FBI can catch these pedos and child rapists by running a sting....I am all for it !!! ....and then once they catch them , just take them out back and shoot them .

a reply to: jappee

This is an FBI tactic - entrapment. They have also been implicated in the past in setting up terrorist stings to catch 'terrorists' in the act.

This is a very effective way of operating the Bureau because it ensures an ongoing and rather healthy budget because they get results (because they create the situation that gives them the results).

In this instance, the disturbing thing is that they've likely used actual child porn that they've obtained from sickos like Bill Clinton, Jeff Epstein, Prince Charles and the list goes on. In fact the sting was probably set up to nab lower class pedos so the elites can have more children to exploit.

Sick flux - the lot of em

a reply to: jappee

In the US there is the entrapment loophole these child abusing scum are trying to use to get off the hook.
What the FBI did in this occurrence was probably the only way to catch these secretive perverted individuals' and to smash there world wide network's.

On this occasion I see nothing wrong with what the FBI did given there motivation, to catch dangerous predator's that threaten your children, of course if they had to used any material that probably also distressed the FBI agent's making this sting but they knew that to get even one of these creep's off the scene and behind bar's was probably several children with there lives saved from being ruined and worse.


Personally I believe the law in most western country's is far too lax were these type of criminal pervert's are concerned and in fact they really should be locked away for life or accept chemical castration and lifetime monitoring and psychiatric attendance.

HOW does anyone see a child as sexual?.

a reply to: jappee

Pretty sure this has been covered on ATS before . Thing is if they arent going to the FBI site they are going elsewhere . Quite the dilemma really . Love to be a judge though . Rusty razor blades anyone .

a reply to: Sublimecraft

This is an FBI tactic - entrapment. They have also been implicated in the past in setting up terrorist stings to catch 'terrorists' in the act.

Are you not in favour of tactics such as that .. They can try and entrap me as much as they want but it wont happen , entrapment in almost all cases only catches the guilty . And i am not talking about the bloke that goes to a hooker . Almost a victim here . Thanks Grandma for stopping it . And it was not family .

I do recognize that entrapment is unconstitutional and I think it is a bit shady. However, the bunch this sting was targeting are the lowest of the low and I think any means necessary is justified in bringing vindication to the young lives that are ruined by these perverted broken people.

Common sense should tell you that an experience as negative as forced intercourse upon a still developing mind can haunt someone the entirety of their lives. No mercy for this bunch, they revoke their privilege to rights with their actions...and thats the bottom line.

There was a report a few years ago about this girl who was sexually abused by i think her stepfather but im not so siure on that atm. I do remember that he mostly only fed her peanut butter sandwiches to keep her "slim" which was pretty screwed up. He got caught and they confiscated a lot of photo's that he had taken of her (nude).

This girl ended up sueing the FBI when she got older and found out that the FBI had been using her pictures in online stings like these. The thing is, had the FBI not done this her pictures would have never been online for any others to find since the original perp never uploaded them to the net, the FBI did and we all know the saying "once it is on the internet..". So thats another example of the FBI/gov actually creating "supply".

I tried to do a quick search for the reports on this but is hard to find. When i get back i will do a bit of a more thorough search for it and link it or if anyone recognizes it please feel free to link and quote it in the thread.

a reply to: hutch622

Images of child pornography are not protected under First Amendment rights, and are illegal contraband under federal law. Section 2256 of Title 18, United States Code, defines child pornography as any visual depiction of sexually explicit conduct involving a minor (someone under 18 years of age). Visual depictions include photographs, videos, digital or computer generated images indistinguishable from an actual minor, and images created, adapted, or modified, but appear to depict an identifiable, actual minor. Undeveloped film, undeveloped videotape, and electronically stored data that can be converted into a visual image of child pornography are also deemed illegal visual depictions under federal law.

The Law

So, first they break the law themselves? :down:

ETA: I am NOT defending pedophiles.

a reply to: BloodStainedGlass

Yes but your letting your emotions drive you right now, understandable i agree but it makes you blind to the crime the FBI commits here.

like David64 already mentioned:

So....the FBI is telling me that, with the most sophisticated surveillance network on the planet, they can't just trace the scum who visit these sites? Hmm. Something stinks.
Maybe ask the NSA for help?

They truly do not need to do these sting operations and most definatly not in this capacity. They are actually releasing more childporn into the world spreading it around faster by doing it in this way. And to top it all of most of their catches get to run free not long after it. This has happened so many times it has to make you wonder what their real motives are because their practices are not only questionable to the extreme but also very inefficient to say the least.

a reply to: Sublimecraft

This is an FBI tactic - entrapment. They have also been implicated in the past in setting up terrorist stings to catch 'terrorists' in the act. This is a very effective way of operating the Bureau because it ensures an ongoing and rather healthy budget because they get results (because they create the situation that gives them the results). In this instance, the disturbing thing is that they've likely used actual child porn that they've obtained from sickos like Bill Clinton, Jeff Epstein, Prince Charles and the list goes on. In fact the sting was probably set up to nab lower class pedos so the elites can have more children to exploit. Sick flux - the lot of em

Smedley Butler said war was a racket .We are seeing many aspects of society turned into profitable rackets .War on drugs ,war on terror , war on crime etc .With laws in place to confiscate property and to send people convicted of crimes off to private prisons (another profitable enterprise) in for God knows how long . With the possibility, and in all likelihood a covert body parts operation ,we all become fish in a barrel .

Imagine that you end up inside the system for something small ,which does happen , and you get set up to be framed . Lets say you have a pair of kidneys sold and need a heart . You off the guy and harvest his parts and pin the death on another inmate . You suicide him and sell his parts also .

The probability of that going on inside the US is very likely and for it to be going outside the US is even higher . "Sick flux-the lot of them " is putting it mildly .......

a reply to: jappee

This is somewhat idiotic.

While I believe that turning themselves into the largest distributor of online content which is prohibited, was a bloody stupid move to make given the obvious legal argument that could be ranged against it, I also believe that people who consume this kind of content ought to have no route to wiggle free of prosecution. This is not a weed bust, this is a case of people consuming the kind of content which by simply existing, harms children. The same cannot be automatically assumed of drugs possession or consumption thereof, the same cannot be said of most other kinds of crime involving a contraband item in fact. Child exploitation and the creation of indecent images by simply existing as a concept, leave alone as an existing problem, causes harm to children and must be obliterated entirely from the world as fast as can be. This is perhaps the only situation where the government acted, if not sensibly, then at least solely for the protection of the group they are claiming to protect, with such a large sting operation.

You cannot protect weed smokers by such means, and you cannot protect gun rights and the owners thereof by such means, but you can sure as hell make your best attempt at getting some disgusting creeps off the net, and into a place where they cannot provide demand for this sort of content.

This is egregious. I don't know what to say.

ETA: Lawyers are scumbags..enuf said about that.

If it's so egregious, and if you also think lawyers are scumbags, who do you think is going to challenge the government on its egregious behavior?

a reply to: everyone

No, I get it.
I think the ends justify the means in this situation, this is one of those rare cases of ignore the laws for the right reasons.
Most times laws are ignored for all the wrong reasons, but if you can tell me that if your child was the target of minor trafficking that you would still have an issue with HOW the offenders were brought to justice then I would think you were being dishonest. It has been said this is a very elusive and subversive bunch; any means necessary is justified.

My opinion of course, you don't have to agree.

originally posted by: everyone

"Not only was the government the largest distributor of child pornography

That is like being the largest supplier of drugs on the street while flying under the banner "The war on drugs". You cannot consolidate that realistically under any sort of pretense. Trying catch these people sure ok but not while turning yourself in the biggest supplier.

Something tells me something is not right there at the FBI.

Yes, I cannot help but compare this story to the entrapment of John Delorean all those years ago. Something has not been "right" with the FBI since the days of J. Edgar.