The Frog in the Boiling Pot of Water.

Everyone knows the saying that, if you put a frog in a pot of water and slowly heat it, he will stay there and die, but if ou heat the water quickly he will jump out.


Well it looks like trump is going to blow torch the pot....

See if any change politician is smart . He avoids big fast moving dramatic effects that harm massive amounts of people...

You can get away with small things that build up to big things, because humanity is just like that frog in the pot.

Exhibit A: repealing Obamacare.
There are millions of people getting subsidies that will instantly be negatively effected. That is instantly millions of people with a vested interest in kicking you out..instantly..on day one.

Maybe he replaces it before next year when all this years will end and crisis averted, but if not...

Exhibit B: his appointments are all uber partisan hacks he will have to babysit to stop from making big changes Trumps pretty moderate @$$ prob doesn't personally agree with.

Exhibit C: rolling back marijuana legalization. Trump appointed Jeff sessions as attorney general, prob the most anti pot republican in office. If Sessions was to roll legalization back, thats another bunch of millions of people pissed and personally effected.


Exhibit C: they tried to make all abortions illegal after 6 weeks. Now kasich shot this down and made it a pretty moderate 20ish weeks. But your gonna have countless other things like this pop up with a GOP majority in all 3 branches....yet another millions of people personally effected.

Good Change doesn't come from cautions people who slowly heat the water. They come from some tyrannical idiot making drastic changes that force Americans out into the streets. When even all the moderates and people who normally don't pay attention are forced to pay attention.


That said the "pre disaster protests " are useless. Wait till he gives you a legit reason and actually have the support to win..

a reply to: JoshuaCox

Stop with the obamacare bull#. Right yeah its not fair for people losing health care what about people like me?

I was instantly negatively impacted when it came into effect. I couldnt afford it because i made "too much" funny seeing how i couldnt afford a 700$ a month payment for me and my daughter with a 8k deductible.

But wait theres more! Now i get "taxed" ( i say fined) for not having insurance. Please tell me how is that fair to me?

Might as well be poor than middle class id be better off.

Atleast that was the way under your boy Obama.

originally posted by: Zerodoublehero
a reply to: JoshuaCox

Stop with the obamacare bull#. Right yeah its not fair for people losing health care what about people like me?

I was instantly negatively impacted when it came into effect. I couldnt afford it because i made "too much" funny seeing how i couldnt afford a 700$ a month payment for me and my daughter with a 8k deductible.

But wait theres more! Now i get "taxed" ( i say fined) for not having insurance. Please tell me how is that fair to me?

Might as well be poor than middle class id be better off.

Atleast that was the way under your boy Obama.

Your assuming insurance companies will CHOOSE to lower rates now that they know you will pay what your paying now.

Why would they? It's a required service (not by law, by necessity, health care I mean.)

When have they ever dropped prices they knew you would pay??

Taxes after WW1 and WW2.

Insurance companies are the problem. You can't corner the healthcare market and keep 30% of all money, while not actually preforming a healthcare related function and it be efficient.

a reply to: Zerodoublehero

The Affordable Care Act is more complicated than "it costs me lots of money so get rid of it". It sucks that it costs you $700 a month. That's the broken part and that needs to be fixed. But right now someone under the ACA is getting a cancer treatment they would have otherwise been denied. That person would've been shown the door, and on the other side of that door would be a coffin. And that person could have been you. And we need to keep that at all costs.

The ACA should never have been put into place. Socialized medicine should've been put into place. It would've worked for all Americans. But now we have the ACA, and we have to deal with it.

Repealing the ACA in one swift blow without something to replace it is as good as putting a gun to the heads of 50,000+ people. I'm sorry it's not fair to you. But it's also not fair that all those people have to die when we live in a country rich enough and advanced enough to save them.

a reply to: JoshuaCox

Im not assuming anything im TELLING you that obamacare didnt work for everyone. You know like small businesses or the middle class.

So yeah you can worry about the lower class and them losing more freebies.

We will worry about rebuilding America and creating jobs.

And btw when insurance companies cant compete its quite easy for them to raise rates and screw the middle class. Frankly we are sick and tired of it.

a reply to: MrSensible

You dont get it though. The middle class and small businesses are getting #ed. I cant afford insurance so i don't have it. I make to much to get subsidies but dont make enough to afford it. And on top of that i get fined at the end of the year for not having the insurance i cant afford.

Come on you guys can see through the bull# right?

Im all for a healthcare system but this one just doesnt work unless you're poor. Thats the truth.

originally posted by: Zerodoublehero
a reply to: JoshuaCox

Im not assuming anything im TELLING you that obamacare didnt work for everyone. You know like small businesses or the middle class.

So yeah you can worry about the lower class and them losing more freebies.

We will worry about rebuilding America and creating jobs.

And btw when insurance companies cant compete its quite easy for them to raise rates and screw the middle class. Frankly we are sick and tired of it.

No insurance companies don't work for anyone..

Compition doesn't matter when they are asked to front billions of dollars . All businesses expect to make at least a 30% profit off their investment.

a reply to: JoshuaCox

Yeah you're correct but ya boy Obama made sure everone still have to pay for it. Even though in your exact words the insurance companies do not worl for anyone. Makes sense right?

Oh i forgot only if you're poor.

originally posted by: JoshuaCox



Everyone knows the saying that, if you put a frog in a pot of water and slowly heat it, he will stay there and die, but if ou heat the water quickly he will jump out.


Well it looks like trump is going to blow torch the pot....

See if any change politician is smart . He avoids big fast moving dramatic effects that harm massive amounts of people...

You can get away with small things that build up to big things, because humanity is just like that frog in the pot.

Exhibit A: repealing Obamacare.
There are millions of people getting subsidies that will instantly be negatively effected. That is instantly millions of people with a vested interest in kicking you out..instantly..on day one.

Maybe he replaces it before next year when all this years will end and crisis averted, but if not...

Exhibit B: his appointments are all uber partisan hacks he will have to babysit to stop from making big changes Trumps pretty moderate @$$ prob doesn't personally agree with.

Exhibit C: rolling back marijuana legalization. Trump appointed Jeff sessions as attorney general, prob the most anti pot republican in office. If Sessions was to roll legalization back, thats another bunch of millions of people pissed and personally effected.


Exhibit C: they tried to make all abortions illegal after 6 weeks. Now kasich shot this down and made it a pretty moderate 20ish weeks. But your gonna have countless other things like this pop up with a GOP majority in all 3 branches....yet another millions of people personally effected.

Good Change doesn't come from cautions people who slowly heat the water. They come from some tyrannical idiot making drastic changes that force Americans out into the streets. When even all the moderates and people who normally don't pay attention are forced to pay attention.


That said the "pre disaster protests " are useless. Wait till he gives you a legit reason and actually have the support to win..

Good job explaining why liberalism is so dangerous. First, the frog in pot applies to liberals. You guys love to implement small changes over time like taxes. A few basis points here. A few percent here. Next thing you know, you are paying 30% or more in taxes.

Secondly, the other problem is that liberals get people hooked on governmemt handouts which does make it next to impossible to reform these poorly thoughtout social policies. When was the last time you saw the federal government admit a program is a failure and it wasnt needed anymore? Never.

Once a program has a constituency of users, politicians will never cut them off which is why government should not be handing out candy. Conservative, liberal, or whatever. They all ay tbis game.

OP:

You have two exhibit c's.

Also, the ACA is terrible, and forces working class folks to work harder for less- putting them ever closer to that line where they give up and live of the collapsing system.

originally posted by: JoshuaCox



Everyone knows the saying that, if you put a frog in a pot of water and slowly heat it, he will stay there and die, but if ou heat the water quickly he will jump out.

The "frog in a boiling pot" saying is just that. A saying. It actually isn't true. At all.

Much like the rest of your post.

If you are going to be truly critical of the current President, at least try to pay attention to the details.

So... repealing Obamacare would be bad because millions would lose subsidies. Boo Hoo... my healthcare went from 5,600 a year with our deductibles to 21,509 a year with deductibles. I'm a middle class family. So I'm not really sorry if someone's "subsidy" went south because it appears that I can't afford health insurance anymore because I'm now paying for 4 other people.

B... He hired people who are successful at private businesses. I realize that you don't understand the concept. But for those of us that work and have a business, this is a good thing.

C... You're worried about legal pot. /facepalm. If you had half a brain and owned some property you could just ignore the laws... much like our former President did.

You need to breath and just see what happens. And for the love of whatever deity you currently believe or don't believe in, turn off the TV.

originally posted by: JoshuaCox

originally posted by: Zerodoublehero
a reply to: JoshuaCox

Im not assuming anything im TELLING you that obamacare didnt work for everyone. You know like small businesses or the middle class.

So yeah you can worry about the lower class and them losing more freebies.

We will worry about rebuilding America and creating jobs.

And btw when insurance companies cant compete its quite easy for them to raise rates and screw the middle class. Frankly we are sick and tired of it.

No insurance companies don't work for anyone..

Compition doesn't matter when they are asked to front billions of dollars . All businesses expect to make at least a 30% profit off their investment.

You need to take a basic business course. You have no idea what you are talking about. Go google average business profit margins and then come back when you have a clue. Here is a hint, insurance companies have some of the lowest profit margins of any business. They are in single digits. Around 5%

Only investments yielding 30% are the best performing hedge funds and even they cant do it indefinitely. This is why they make so much money as it is damn near impossible to get those kinds of returns.

You kno

originally posted by: JoshuaCox

Exhibit A: repealing Obamacare.

First of all, if you really believe this is going to happen, I would suggest that you're worried over nothing. Or, to put it another way, if it happens, I'll believe it when I see it. If Obamacare goes away completely without being replaced by another (just as bad) healthcare bill that basically forces people to participate, I will be very surprised.

What Trump has promised is not possible without some mechanism that serves basically the same purpose as the individual mandate. Just like it wasn't possible when Obama promised it in 2008. Obama promised universal healthcare without raising taxes and without an individual mandate. What did we get? An individual mandate and a fine for not participating that the court basically interprets as a tax.

Now Trump is promising universal healthcare and he's been all over the map on the individual mandate. My prediction is the individual mandate will stay and people still won't have the right to say no and this will all have been a lot of noise for nothing but more penalties. Oh yes. That's what's really up. The Republicans never cared about the real problem with Obamacare (the right of the individual to make a choice). They were worried about other things like insurance companies (and other companies) losing money because they knew the money for the subsidies has to come from somewhere.

And where does government money come from? Unemployed people? Nope. The vast majority of government money comes from taxes collected from people who make over a certain amount. Now we can quibble about who pays the most taxes percentage wise (in proportion to income) but wealthy people pay a lot of taxes even if it is a relatively small portion of their income. So....they know those subsidies are coming out of their money. They're not gonna be happy about it when they know a lot of people just don't want to work.

Moving on....

There are millions of people getting subsidies that will instantly be negatively effected. That is instantly millions of people with a vested interest in kicking you out..instantly..on day one.

Let's just say for the sake of argument that Trump completely gets rid of Obamacare and the subsidies and all that just go away. In my book, that's just fine because those people knew the individual mandate was wrong and they chose to exploit the opportunity to get government money. They rolled the dice and they just might lose. They had no sympathy at all for people who felt like Obamacare was backing them into an impossible corner.

Exhibit C: rolling back marijuana legalization. Trump appointed Jeff sessions as attorney general, prob the most anti pot republican in office. If Sessions was to roll legalization back, thats another bunch of millions of people pissed and personally effected.

I would personally worry a lot more about other things Sessions might do. Sure. It would be unfortunate but the man is a far right ideologue and he is very likely to persecute all kinds of people other than just potheads.

Exhibit C: they tried to make all abortions illegal after 6 weeks. Now kasich shot this down and made it a pretty moderate 20ish weeks. But your gonna have countless other things like this pop up with a GOP majority in all 3 branches....yet another millions of people personally effected.

The right to an abortion was heavily based on the right to choose. If you don't have the right to choose not to buy insurance, why should you have the right to choose to have an abortion?

Not that I am opposed to abortion. I'm pro-choice. I'm just consistent. If you can choose to have an abortion (Something I have no personal problem with but many people strongly feel is the wrong choice) I should have the right to make "the wrong choices" about buying insurance.

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: JoshuaCox



Everyone knows the saying that, if you put a frog in a pot of water and slowly heat it, he will stay there and die, but if ou heat the water quickly he will jump out.


Well it looks like trump is going to blow torch the pot....

See if any change politician is smart . He avoids big fast moving dramatic effects that harm massive amounts of people...

You can get away with small things that build up to big things, because humanity is just like that frog in the pot.

Exhibit A: repealing Obamacare.
There are millions of people getting subsidies that will instantly be negatively effected. That is instantly millions of people with a vested interest in kicking you out..instantly..on day one.

Maybe he replaces it before next year when all this years will end and crisis averted, but if not...

Exhibit B: his appointments are all uber partisan hacks he will have to babysit to stop from making big changes Trumps pretty moderate @$$ prob doesn't personally agree with.

Exhibit C: rolling back marijuana legalization. Trump appointed Jeff sessions as attorney general, prob the most anti pot republican in office. If Sessions was to roll legalization back, thats another bunch of millions of people pissed and personally effected.


Exhibit C: they tried to make all abortions illegal after 6 weeks. Now kasich shot this down and made it a pretty moderate 20ish weeks. But your gonna have countless other things like this pop up with a GOP majority in all 3 branches....yet another millions of people personally effected.

Good Change doesn't come from cautions people who slowly heat the water. They come from some tyrannical idiot making drastic changes that force Americans out into the streets. When even all the moderates and people who normally don't pay attention are forced to pay attention.


That said the "pre disaster protests " are useless. Wait till he gives you a legit reason and actually have the support to win..

Good job explaining why liberalism is so dangerous. First, the frog in pot applies to liberals. You guys love to implement small changes over time like taxes. A few basis points here. A few percent here. Next thing you know, you are paying 30% or more in taxes.

Secondly, the other problem is that liberals get people hooked on governmemt handouts which does make it next to impossible to reform these poorly thoughtout social policies. When was the last time you saw the federal government admit a program is a failure and it wasnt needed anymore? Never.

Once a program has a constituency of users, politicians will never cut them off which is why government should not be handing out candy. Conservative, liberal, or whatever. They all ay tbis game.

The frog in the pot applies to humanity and always had.

Conservatives are not magically immune to the human condition no matter what conspiracy theory they all believe this week... Pizzagate "cough"...

Everyone in modern human history is "addicted to government, because without government, it only matters what your local warlord thinks.

You think those magical conservatives survive without the inferstructure government provides?!?!


Only in your head.

originally posted by: BrianFlanders

originally posted by: JoshuaCox

Exhibit A: repealing Obamacare.

First of all, if you really believe this is going to happen, I would suggest that you're worried over nothing. Or, to put it another way, if it happens, I'll believe it when I see it. If Obamacare goes away completely without being replaced by another (just as bad) healthcare bill that basically forces people to participate, I will be very surprised.

What Trump has promised is not possible without some mechanism that serves basically the same purpose as the individual mandate. Just like it wasn't possible when Obama promised it in 2008. Obama promised universal healthcare without raising taxes and without an individual mandate. What did we get? An individual mandate and a fine for not participating that the court basically interprets as a tax.

Now Trump is promising universal healthcare and he's been all over the map on the individual mandate. My prediction is the individual mandate will stay and people still won't have the right to say no and this will all have been a lot of noise for nothing but more penalties. Oh yes. That's what's really up. The Republicans never cared about the real problem with Obamacare (the right of the individual to make a choice). They were worried about other things like insurance companies (and other companies) losing money because they knew the money for the subsidies has to come from somewhere.

And where does government money come from? Unemployed people? Nope. The vast majority of government money comes from taxes collected from people who make over a certain amount. Now we can quibble about who pays the most taxes percentage wise (in proportion to income) but wealthy people pay a lot of taxes even if it is a relatively small portion of their income. So....they know those subsidies are coming out of their money. They're not gonna be happy about it when they know a lot of people just don't want to work.

Moving on....

There are millions of people getting subsidies that will instantly be negatively effected. That is instantly millions of people with a vested interest in kicking you out..instantly..on day one.

Let's just say for the sake of argument that Trump completely gets rid of Obamacare and the subsidies and all that just go away. In my book, that's just fine because those people knew the individual mandate was wrong and they chose to exploit the opportunity to get government money. They rolled the dice and they just might lose. They had no sympathy at all for people who felt like Obamacare was backing them into an impossible corner.

Exhibit C: rolling back marijuana legalization. Trump appointed Jeff sessions as attorney general, prob the most anti pot republican in office. If Sessions was to roll legalization back, thats another bunch of millions of people pissed and personally effected.

I would personally worry a lot more about other things Sessions might do. Sure. It would be unfortunate but the man is a far right ideologue and he is very likely to persecute all kinds of people other than just potheads.

Exhibit C: they tried to make all abortions illegal after 6 weeks. Now kasich shot this down and made it a pretty moderate 20ish weeks. But your gonna have countless other things like this pop up with a GOP majority in all 3 branches....yet another millions of people personally effected.

The right to an abortion was heavily based on the right to choose. If you don't have the right to choose not to buy insurance, why should you have the right to choose to have an abortion?

Not that I am opposed to abortion. I'm pro-choice. I'm just consistent. If you can choose to have an abortion (Something I have no personal problem with but many people strongly feel is the wrong choice) I should have the right to make "the wrong choices" about buying insurance.

The individual mandate is no more "wrong" than any other taxes that effect the country as a whole..police, fire dept, army, welfare, and any other taxed based government service , is an individual mandate.

I disagree as well about having the "right to the wrong insurance"

All insurance is a scam and always has been. That's why every other modern country on the planet has gotten rid of them. We are the only ones still giving no 30% of all our health care budget . To paper pushers at insurance companies rather than drs and nurses.

I don't necessarily disagree much about the rest.

originally posted by: MrSensible
a reply to: Zerodoublehero

The Affordable Care Act is more complicated than "it costs me lots of money so get rid of it". It sucks that it costs you $700 a month. That's the broken part and that needs to be fixed. But right now someone under the ACA is getting a cancer treatment they would have otherwise been denied. That person would've been shown the door, and on the other side of that door would be a coffin. And that person could have been you. And we need to keep that at all costs.

The ACA should never have been put into place. Socialized medicine should've been put into place. It would've worked for all Americans. But now we have the ACA, and we have to deal with it.

Repealing the ACA in one swift blow without something to replace it is as good as putting a gun to the heads of 50,000+ people. I'm sorry it's not fair to you. But it's also not fair that all those people have to die when we live in a country rich enough and advanced enough to save them.

Of course it is.. but if you spend all your time watching Fox News and Alex Jones, what do you expect?

a reply to: JoshuaCox

I'm not so sure about trump continuing with his populist parts of his agenda...

A lot of the "Bernie sanders" retoric like universal health care and taxing companies who manufacture over seas , as well as draining the swamp" have mysteriously vanished since winning".

originally posted by: Zerodoublehero
a reply to: JoshuaCox

Stop with the obamacare bull#. Right yeah its not fair for people losing health care what about people like me?

I was instantly negatively impacted when it came into effect. I couldnt afford it because i made "too much" funny seeing how i couldnt afford a 700$ a month payment for me and my daughter with a 8k deductible.

But wait theres more! Now i get "taxed" ( i say fined) for not having insurance. Please tell me how is that fair to me?

Might as well be poor than middle class id be better off.

Atleast that was the way under your boy Obama.

Thing is, the travesty that Obamacare turned into WAS NOT the Obamacare that Obama initially tried to pass. He tried to pass one that would actually have benefited ALL Americans and NOT put the money in the hands of corporate interests but the Republicans blocked it and FORCED him to water it down then agreed to the version you see today.

Obama tried to give you a healthcare system that worked and was fair for all. Republicans butchered it and they should be solely to blame for the travesty that it became.

originally posted by: MrSensible
a reply to: Zerodoublehero
But right now someone under the ACA is getting a cancer treatment they would have otherwise been denied. That person would've been shown the door, and on the other side of that door would be a coffin. And that person could have been you. And we need to keep that at all costs..

Why?

Sometimes life sucks. Why should I let something that makes my (or a loved one's) life suck, negatively impact millions of other people?

Sounds like a fairly selfish thing to do.

originally posted by: Edumakated

You need to take a basic business course. You have no idea what you are talking about. Go google average business profit margins and then come back when you have a clue. Here is a hint, insurance companies have some of the lowest profit margins of any business. They are in single digits. Around 5%

Only investments yielding 30% are the best performing hedge funds and even they cant do it indefinitely. This is why they make so much money as it is damn near impossible to get those kinds of returns.

While he is very wrong for a number of other reasons, I think that here he's referring to the classic 30% margin for goods. Buy something for 100, sell it for 130. His mistake is (i) thinking that the 30% is profit, and (ii) thinking that the same % applies in the same way in this scenario.