Could Our Universe Have Arisen From A Black Hole?

Very interesting notion indeed. The fact that science is talking about things like the universe as a hologram, simulated universe and do we live in a black hole means we're coming out of Plato's Cave which in this case is the observable universe.

If you go back in time as far as you can, you’ll find a Universe that was hotter, denser and more energetic. If you were to extrapolate back to an arbitrarily hot, dense state, the laws of physics that describe space, time, matter and energy break down; you’ll arrive at a singularity. Yet a singularity is also exactly what you find if you were to fly inside a black hole, to the final destination where all infalling matter and energy winds up. These are the only instances in the entire Universe’s history — past, present and future — where a singularity occurs. Perhaps the two of them are connected? It’s not as crazy an idea as you might think.

Similarly, you can take a black hole’s mass and calculate how big its event horizon is: the region where space is curved so severely that nothing, not even light, can escape. If you were to take a fundamental particle and allow it to be more and more massive, you’d very quickly reach a point where that particle’s Schwarzschild radius — a measure of its event horizon — was bigger than the Compton wavelength: about 21 µg, or micrograms. The fact that black holes in our Universe are much more massive than this isn’t a problem. It simply means that the laws of physics that we know break down at the singularity we calculate at the center. If we ever want to describe it accurately, it’s going to take a unification of quantum theory with General Relativity. It’s going to take a quantum theory of gravity.

As it stands, however, we can calculate what happens to spacetime inside the event horizon all the way up to (but not including) the central singularity. Surprisingly, with just a coordinate transformation, the space inside a black hole can be mapped, one-to-one, onto the space outside a black hole.

As the black hole first formed, from a star’s core imploding and collapsing, the event horizon first came to be, then rapidly expanded and continued to grow in area as more and more matter continued to fall in. If you were to put a coordinate grid down on this two-dimensional wrapping, you would find that it originated where the gridlines were very close together, then expanded rapidly as the black hole formed, and then expanded more and more slowly as matter fell in at a much lower rate. This matches, at least conceptually, what we observe for the expansion rate of our three-dimensional Universe.

www.forbes.com...

Wow! Good stuff.



Here's another article you can check out.

Black Holes Can Be Holograms, New Research Reveals

Theoretical physicists from Munich's Max Planck Institute for Physics (MPP) have recently suggested that the mysterious black holes, which are among the top intriguing features of the universe, are actually just holograms, or optical illusions. The scientists reportedly have developed a new method for observing the chaotic states that occur beyond a black hole's event horizons.

www.scienceworldreport.com...

This would explain a lot and it suggest that our universe is just one observable universe or bubbles out of many of these observable universes. This is what happens.

Black holes in our universe would be 2 Dimensional projections of information from another universe. So that universe would be our Mother universe so to speak and we will be it's baby.

When matter falls into a black hole, it's mass spreads out across the event horizon and the entropy of this horizon contains all of the information to reboot another universe. There's very little matter and this matter forms the singularity of the black hole. Because of quantum mechanics, matter never collapses to a singularity but instead forms a wormhole. This means quantum mechanies runs the show and virtual particles are popping into and out of existence.

This also mean that vacuum energy is growing and this repulsive energy is getting stronger. As the black hole evaporates, more pressure is being put on the singularity (wormhole) and eventually it can't be contained and it explodes(big bang).

When it explodes it creates the universe but the universe is different from our observable universe. The observable universe occurs because gravity takes over in certain pockets of this vast universe and these pockets are observable universes. So dark matter should really be called dark mass.

So, just think about the black holes in our obsevable universe and in the wider universe that's black to us giving birth to more universes ad infinitum. This would also mean they're multiple versions of you in these observable or pocket universes.

originally posted by: neoholographic
Very interesting notion indeed. The fact that science is talking about things like the universe as a hologram, simulated universe and do we live in a black hole means we're coming out of Plato's Cave which in this case is the observable universe.

If you go back in time as far as you can, you’ll find a Universe that was hotter, denser and more energetic. If you were to extrapolate back to an arbitrarily hot, dense state, the laws of physics that describe space, time, matter and energy break down; you’ll arrive at a singularity. Yet a singularity is also exactly what you find if you were to fly inside a black hole, to the final destination where all infalling matter and energy winds up. These are the only instances in the entire Universe’s history — past, present and future — where a singularity occurs. Perhaps the two of them are connected? It’s not as crazy an idea as you might think.

Similarly, you can take a black hole’s mass and calculate how big its event horizon is: the region where space is curved so severely that nothing, not even light, can escape. If you were to take a fundamental particle and allow it to be more and more massive, you’d very quickly reach a point where that particle’s Schwarzschild radius — a measure of its event horizon — was bigger than the Compton wavelength: about 21 µg, or micrograms. The fact that black holes in our Universe are much more massive than this isn’t a problem. It simply means that the laws of physics that we know break down at the singularity we calculate at the center. If we ever want to describe it accurately, it’s going to take a unification of quantum theory with General Relativity. It’s going to take a quantum theory of gravity.

As it stands, however, we can calculate what happens to spacetime inside the event horizon all the way up to (but not including) the central singularity. Surprisingly, with just a coordinate transformation, the space inside a black hole can be mapped, one-to-one, onto the space outside a black hole.

As the black hole first formed, from a star’s core imploding and collapsing, the event horizon first came to be, then rapidly expanded and continued to grow in area as more and more matter continued to fall in. If you were to put a coordinate grid down on this two-dimensional wrapping, you would find that it originated where the gridlines were very close together, then expanded rapidly as the black hole formed, and then expanded more and more slowly as matter fell in at a much lower rate. This matches, at least conceptually, what we observe for the expansion rate of our three-dimensional Universe.

www.forbes.com...

Wow! Good stuff.

The video is saying matter falls into a black hole and then travels through a wormhole to another universe. So the black holes would lose mass and stop being black holes. Is there any evidence in the universe of black holes dissipating?

If matter could exit through a wormhole then black holes wouldn't really exist. Especially if you're talking about creating a big bang in another universe, that isn't a slow leak of energy, that would be the entire black hole releasing it's energy all at once. The gravitational influence of the black hole in our universe would immediately stop. So we wouldn't see the things we see in space like black holes draining stars or supermassive black holes in the center of galaxies.
Black holes seem to continue being black holes over time which means they have to keep all the mass that has entered them. Otherwise space-time would just flatten back out.

Also during the big bang space-time expanded, this is different than if a wormhole erupted a bunch of energy from a black hole. The black hole concept doesn't explain how an entire universe of space-time was crunched up to subatomic size (our universe) and why it had such low entropy among other questions.

a reply to: neoholographic

I had a similar idea, but decided not to post due to lack of time to write it up properly and the lack of time to do the basic research. I wondered if perhaps all matter would end up in black holes and turn into energy, that all black holes would merge and this huge amount of energy would cause an explosion that would through the explosion transform(from energy) into matter that we now see. The initial matter would be basic, but become this.

P.S. I'm not sure just how similar this is to your post. Apologies. On only a few hours of sleep at nearly 3 AM.

originally posted by: joelr

originally posted by: neoholographic
Very interesting notion indeed. The fact that science is talking about things like the universe as a hologram, simulated universe and do we live in a black hole means we're coming out of Plato's Cave which in this case is the observable universe.

If you go back in time as far as you can, you’ll find a Universe that was hotter, denser and more energetic. If you were to extrapolate back to an arbitrarily hot, dense state, the laws of physics that describe space, time, matter and energy break down; you’ll arrive at a singularity. Yet a singularity is also exactly what you find if you were to fly inside a black hole, to the final destination where all infalling matter and energy winds up. These are the only instances in the entire Universe’s history — past, present and future — where a singularity occurs. Perhaps the two of them are connected? It’s not as crazy an idea as you might think.

Similarly, you can take a black hole’s mass and calculate how big its event horizon is: the region where space is curved so severely that nothing, not even light, can escape. If you were to take a fundamental particle and allow it to be more and more massive, you’d very quickly reach a point where that particle’s Schwarzschild radius — a measure of its event horizon — was bigger than the Compton wavelength: about 21 µg, or micrograms. The fact that black holes in our Universe are much more massive than this isn’t a problem. It simply means that the laws of physics that we know break down at the singularity we calculate at the center. If we ever want to describe it accurately, it’s going to take a unification of quantum theory with General Relativity. It’s going to take a quantum theory of gravity.

As it stands, however, we can calculate what happens to spacetime inside the event horizon all the way up to (but not including) the central singularity. Surprisingly, with just a coordinate transformation, the space inside a black hole can be mapped, one-to-one, onto the space outside a black hole.

As the black hole first formed, from a star’s core imploding and collapsing, the event horizon first came to be, then rapidly expanded and continued to grow in area as more and more matter continued to fall in. If you were to put a coordinate grid down on this two-dimensional wrapping, you would find that it originated where the gridlines were very close together, then expanded rapidly as the black hole formed, and then expanded more and more slowly as matter fell in at a much lower rate. This matches, at least conceptually, what we observe for the expansion rate of our three-dimensional Universe.

www.forbes.com...

Wow! Good stuff.

The video is saying matter falls into a black hole and then travels through a wormhole to another universe. So the black holes would lose mass and stop being black holes. Is there any evidence in the universe of black holes dissipating?

If matter could exit through a wormhole then black holes wouldn't really exist. Especially if you're talking about creating a big bang in another universe, that isn't a slow leak of energy, that would be the entire black hole releasing it's energy all at once. The gravitational influence of the black hole in our universe would immediately stop. So we wouldn't see the things we see in space like black holes draining stars or supermassive black holes in the center of galaxies.
Black holes seem to continue being black holes over time which means they have to keep all the mass that has entered them. Otherwise space-time would just flatten back out.

Also during the big bang space-time expanded, this is different than if a wormhole erupted a bunch of energy from a black hole. The black hole concept doesn't explain how an entire universe of space-time was crunched up to subatomic size (our universe) and why it had such low entropy among other questions.

This is why I also linked to the other article.

When matter falls into a black hole, it's masss is spread across the event horizon. So all the information about the object that fell into the black hole is encoded on a 2D surface area or the event horizon.

What we call matter is crushed into a singularity but it never collapses into a singularity because of quantum mechanics. At the singularity you have particle pair production and vacuum energy grows and overtakes the effect of gravity in this singularity that has collapsed into a wormhole.

According to quantum mechanics, particle pairs are constantly appearing and disappearing as a quantum foam. In a region of strong gravitational tidal forces, the two particles in a pair may sometimes be wrenched apart before they have a chance to mutually annihilate. When this happens in the region around a black hole, one particle may escape while its antiparticle partner is captured by the black hole.

en.wikipedia.org...

Eventually the repulsive force of vaccum energy would work against gravity and it's just like a can of pop. The pressure cause a big bang and a new universe fors. Professor Alan Guth talked about this back in 1987.

In explaining his proposal, Dr. Guth likens the universe in which we live to the two-dimensional surface of a sphere which, because of its immense size, appears to us to be almost perfectly flat. There are circumstances, he says, in which an ''aneurysm'' could develop on this surface, a region in which space and time bulge like a tumor, eventually pinching itself off from its parent into a new universe.

To a hypothetical observer inside the bulge, conditions might initially resemble those of the Big Bang explosion from which our own universe is thought to have arisen. But to observers in our own universe, Dr. Guth said, the aneurysm would merely resemble a black hole - a supermassive object whose immense gravity prevents the escape even of light. After a certain amount of time the black hole would evaporate, leaving no trace of the place where a new universe had been born.

www.nytimes.com...

Like Guth and others said, it wouldn't take the black hole releasing all of it's energy as you say. It would just take a small amount of matter for a universe to form. Here's more from Guth:

''The odd thing is that you might even be able to start a new universe using energy equivalent to just a few pounds of matter,'' Dr. Guth said. ''Provided you could find some way to compress it to a density of about 10 to the 75th power grams per cubic centimeter, and provided you could trigger the thing, inflation would do the rest.'' In the space of less than a microsecond the new universe would inflate to enormous size and create for itself all the matter and energy it would ever contain. In all respects, it would resemble our own universe.

The black hole compresses the density of the singularity but it never fully collapses because of quantum mechanics. I go back to the article I listed above:

Cont'd

If you go back in time as far as you can, you’ll find a Universe that was hotter, denser and more energetic. If you were to extrapolate back to an arbitrarily hot, dense state, the laws of physics that describe space, time, matter and energy break down; you’ll arrive at a singularity. Yet a singularity is also exactly what you find if you were to fly inside a black hole, to the final destination where all infalling matter and energy winds up. These are the only instances in the entire Universe’s history — past, present and future — where a singularity occurs. Perhaps the two of them are connected? It’s not as crazy an idea as you might think.

A singularity occurs at the big bang and at the center of a black hole but we know this isn't a singularity in the classical sense because of quantum mechanics.

originally posted by: ksiezyc
a reply to: neoholographic

I had a similar idea, but decided not to post due to lack of time to write it up properly and the lack of time to do the basic research. I wondered if perhaps all matter would end up in black holes and turn into energy, that all black holes would merge and this huge amount of energy would cause an explosion that would through the explosion transform(from energy) into matter that we now see. The initial matter would be basic, but become this.

P.S. I'm not sure just how similar this is to your post. Apologies. On only a few hours of sleep at nearly 3 AM.

You make some good points and this is what these Scientist are starting to see. A black hole is what would occur if a big crunch occurred. Gravity would overtake vacuum energy and everything would collapse and gravity would rule the roost accept at the almost singularity. Lucky for us, gravity will never catch expansion and the universe may expand and form these pocket universes ad infinitum.

I got my new issue of Scientific American and look what's on the cover.



Here's part of the article:

Entangled Wormholes Could Pave the Way for Quantum Gravity

Theoretical physics is full of mind-boggling ideas, but two of the weirdest are quantum entanglement and wormholes. The first, predicted by the theory of quantum mechanics, describes a surprising type of correlation between objects (typically atoms or subatomic particles) having no apparent physical link. Wormholes, predicted by the general theory of relativity, are shortcuts that connect distant regions of space and time. Work done in recent years by several theorists, including myself, has suggested a connection between these two seemingly dissimilar concepts. Based on calculations involving black holes, we realized that quantum mechanics' entanglement and general relativity's wormholes may actually be equivalent—the same phenomena described differently—and we believe the likeness applies to situations beyond black holes.

www.scientificamerican.com...

originally posted by: neoholographic


When matter falls into a black hole, it's masss is spread across the event horizon. So all the information about the object that fell into the black hole is encoded on a 2D surface area or the event horizon.

Right, that's the Holographic principle. It's thought of more like a grid with 1 piece of information per section, each section would be near the Planck length. It's a good idea, not yet proven, but it's purpose is to solve the missing information problem that black holes seem to have.

What we call matter is crushed into a singularity but it never collapses into a singularity because of quantum mechanics. At the singularity you have particle pair production and vacuum energy grows and overtakes the effect of gravity in this singularity that has collapsed into a wormhole.

According to quantum mechanics, particle pairs are constantly appearing and disappearing as a quantum foam. In a region of strong gravitational tidal forces, the two particles in a pair may sometimes be wrenched apart before they have a chance to mutually annihilate. When this happens in the region around a black hole, one particle may escape while its antiparticle partner is captured by the black hole.

en.wikipedia.org...

It's sounds like here you are likely talking about Hawking radiation but that isn't happening at the singularity that happens right above the event horizon. It causes the black hole to evaporate after a really long time.
It can't happen below the event horizon because space-time is moving faster than light beyond the event horizon.

Hypothetical micro-black holes will produce much more Hawking radiation and evaporate immediately.

Eventually the repulsive force of vaccum energy would work against gravity and it's just like a can of pop. The pressure cause a big bang and a new universe fors. Professor Alan Guth talked about this back in 1987.

In explaining his proposal, Dr. Guth likens the universe in which we live to the two-dimensional surface of a sphere which, because of its immense size, appears to us to be almost perfectly flat. There are circumstances, he says, in which an ''aneurysm'' could develop on this surface, a region in which space and time bulge like a tumor, eventually pinching itself off from its parent into a new universe.

To a hypothetical observer inside the bulge, conditions might initially resemble those of the Big Bang explosion from which our own universe is thought to have arisen. But to observers in our own universe, Dr. Guth said, the aneurysm would merely resemble a black hole - a supermassive object whose immense gravity prevents the escape even of light. After a certain amount of time the black hole would evaporate, leaving no trace of the place where a new universe had been born.

www.nytimes.com...

Like Guth and others said, it wouldn't take the black hole releasing all of it's energy as you say. It would just take a small amount of matter for a universe to form. Here's more from Guth:

''The odd thing is that you might even be able to start a new universe using energy equivalent to just a few pounds of matter,'' Dr. Guth said. ''Provided you could find some way to compress it to a density of about 10 to the 75th power grams per cubic centimeter, and provided you could trigger the thing, inflation would do the rest.'' In the space of less than a microsecond the new universe would inflate to enormous size and create for itself all the matter and energy it would ever contain. In all respects, it would resemble our own universe.

Yes, it's an interesting idea. But "10 to the 75th power grams per cubic centimeter" is more energy than in our universe or billions of universes? So he's just playing around with concepts.