So whose bright idea was the 'Army Captures Flying Saucer' headline?

The notion of the military ever voluntarily releasing top secret information has always puzzled me.

As we know that is not in their nature, it does not fit their M.O.

So who would make the colossal blunder of releasing this information to the press?

A naive Col. Blanchard?

What, he thought the public had a right to know and didn't bother to check with his bosses first?

Not-very-likely.


How about we give a listen to the man who actually issued this press release to the media,

who in the end, gave us the answer as to whose bright idea it was to issue the press release stating that the Army had 'captured' a Flying Saucer.


Before his death in 2005, he signed a sealed affidavit confession to be opened only after his passing.

Before that time, all he had ever said publicly is that Col. Blanchard called him up one day and dictated the press release to him that he wanted given to all press media.

Which is indeed true, but not the whole truth as we were later to find out.

"On Tuesday morning, July 8, I would attend the regularly scheduled staff meeting at 7:30 a.m.

Besides

Blanchard,
Marcel;
CIC Capt. Sheridan Cavitt;
Col. James I. Hopkins, the operations officer;
Major Patrick Saunders, the base adjutant;
Major Isadore Brown, the personnel officer;
Lt. Col. Ulysses S. Nero, the supply officer; and from Carswell AAF in Fort Worth, Texas, Blanchard’s boss,
Brig. Gen. Roger Ramey and his chief of staff,
Col. Thomas J. DuBose were also in attendance.

...One of the main concerns discussed at the meeting was whether we should go public or not with the discovery.


Gen.Ramey proposed a plan, which I believe originated with his bosses at the Pentagon.

Attention needed to be diverted from the more important site north of town by acknowledging the other location.

Too many civilians were already involved and the press already was informed.

I was not completely informed how this would be accomplished."


So the origin of this idea was actually from the Pentagon.

And the primary motivation was -

"Attention needed to be diverted from the more important site north of town by acknowledging the other location.

Too many civilians were already involved and the press already was informed."


Now add to the equation some information that the military had, that not even the President knew -

Not only had we broken the German and Jap secret codes, but the Soviets as well.


The Venona project began in 1943, and through this project the military were well aware of how many Russian spies had infiltrated even the Manhattan project.

The very existence of this program was not revealed until a leak in 1995.


From Wiki -

"The decrypted messages gave important insights into Soviet behavior in the period during which duplicate one-time pads were used.

With the first break into the code, Venona revealed the existence of Soviet espionage at Los Alamos National Laboratories.

Identities soon emerged of American, Canadian, Australian, and British spies in service to the Soviet government, including Klaus Fuchs, Alan Nunn May, and Donald Maclean.

Others worked in Washington in the State Department, the Treasury, Office of Strategic Services,and even the White House.


For much of its history, knowledge of Venona was restricted even from the highest levels of government.

Senior army officers, in consultation with the FBI and CIA, made the decision to restrict knowledge of Venona within the government (even the CIA was not made an active partner until 1952).

Army Chief of Staff Omar Bradley, concerned about the White House's history of leaking sensitive information, decided to deny President Truman direct knowledge of the project.

The president received the substance of the material only through FBI, Justice Department, and CIA reports on counterintelligence and intelligence matters.

He was not told the material came from decoded Soviet ciphers."


The Pentagon was also well aware that New Mexico was lousy with civilian Russian spies interested in Los Alamos, White Sands and of course the 509th Atomic Air wing.

Those were undoubtedly the civilians the Pentagon was primarily concerned with 'diverting their attention' as stated.

So it was the old 'bait and switch ruse' used since the debris field was the only site known to the public at that point, and the military wanted to keep it that way while they recovered and cleaned up the crash site.

And the debris field was already cordoned off.

Once that was accomplished, the weather balloon story was... 'released'.

Walter Haut, who released this headline to the media, was also allowed to see the recovered Disc and alien bodies by his commander and old friend from WWII - Col Blanchard.

They were both Bomber pilots in the same squadron who flew missions over Japanese targets during WWII.

a reply to: A51Watcher

Other than this being not very believeable, parts are lifted from Google Plus. Not sure if it is you or not. But it is not formatted right for quoting.


You note 'wiki' and none of the given links at the bottom lead to a wiki.


This really needs to be cleaned up for sourcing.

When the crash occurred, and the Army grabbed it, it wasn't classified information yet. That came after they saw what a blunder they had on their hands.

originally posted by: reldra
a reply to: A51Watcher

Other than this being not very believeable, parts are lifted from Google Plus. Not sure if it is you or not. But it is not formatted right for quoting.

You note 'wiki' and none of the given links at the bottom lead to a wiki.

This really needs to be cleaned up for sourcing.

A google search of Venona project will guide you to:

en.wikipedia.org...

Hope that helps.

Project Venona is a fact along with Walter Haut's testimony whether you believe it or not.

originally posted by: A51Watcher

originally posted by: reldra
a reply to: A51Watcher

Other than this being not very believeable, parts are lifted from Google Plus. Not sure if it is you or not. But it is not formatted right for quoting.

You note 'wiki' and none of the given links at the bottom lead to a wiki.

This really needs to be cleaned up for sourcing.

A google search of Venona project will guide you to:

en.wikipedia.org...

Hope that helps.

That is a little better that you added the wiki link. I will have to read it tmorrow, I am getting very sleepy. I am sure there is something here, I was just irritated by the sourcing style. Make sure to add some more links, though if the google plus parts are yours, of course they need no sourcing.

I look forward to reading this again tomorow.

originally posted by: reldra
[


That is a little better that you added the wiki link. I will have to read it tmorrow, I am getting very sleepy. I am sure there is something here, I was just irritated by the sourcing style. Make sure to add some more links, though if the google plus parts are yours, of course they need no sourcing.

I look forward to reading this again tomorow.

Yup the google plus parts are mine.

I share my ufo info many places.

originally posted by: NoCorruptionAllowed
When the crash occurred, and the Army grabbed it, it wasn't classified information yet. That came after they saw what a blunder they had on their hands.

Yes, it would appear it was classified as of that Tuesday morning meeting.

So if the OP is true, then everyone in town knew a flying saucer had crashed and so they had to tell the truth then changed the story to a weather balloon, or the press released the headline before it was classified?

If it was a debris field and the craft was not intact, how did everyone know it was saucer shaped?

originally posted by: game over man
So if the OP is true, then everyone in town knew a flying saucer had crashed and so they had to tell the truth then changed the story to a weather balloon, or the press released the headline before it was classified?

If it was a debris field and the craft was not intact, how did everyone know it was saucer shaped?

Everyone in town only knew of the odd debris recovered by rancher Mac Brazel. That's all.

Rumors were flying among the townsfolk who got to handle the debris.

What he meant by "the press already was informed" was the local radio station interview Brazel had given before being detained by the military (and the interview confiscated).

Everyone in town did not know about the craft and bodies or that it was saucer shaped.

Everyone in the US however, was aware of flying saucers due to the previous two weeks of daily headlines in newspapers all across the US regarding sightings of flying saucers.

The press release states -

"The many rumors regarding the flying discs became a reality yesterday when the intelligence office of the 509th (atomic) Bomb Group of the 8th Air Force, Roswell Army Air Field, was fortunate enough to gain possession of a disc through the cooperation of one of the ranchers and the sheriff's office of Chaves county."

They didn't have it all yet.

Remember they were picking up debris for days.

If you release a headline that says you already have it, no one comes looking for it.

If the headline had said CRASHED DISC STILL IN FIELD the place would have been mobbed.

originally posted by: A51Watcher
How about we give a listen to the man who actually issued this press release to the media

So you create this thread focused on one person's affadavit, and call this person "the man" instead of giving his name?

Presumably you're talking about Walter Haut, but as Kevin Randle points out, his credibility problems are significant:

Walter Haut's Affadavit, commentary by Kevin Randle

I could pull up other statements that Walter made over the years, including ones that he made to me, but there is little point in that. We all know that he said, for decades, all he had done was write the press release. Now we have a new statement in which he is in the middle of this with all the inside knowledge that anyone could hope for.

The problem is not that his earlier statements contradict his later statements but that his later statements were highly confused, and highly contradictory even inside one interview, and inside one statement in that interview.
...
You simply can’t hide the information about Walter’s confusing statements. There are too many of us out there who have seen and heard most of the witnesses and while some of us have the will to believe, there are many others who want to learn the truth. You can’t cherry-pick the information and make it seem as if it all fits together.

I can't cite the full blog post but it's worth reading because it highlights not only Haut's confusion between his later statements with his earlier statements, but more importantly the highly contradictory internal confusion with his later statements.

For people really interested in learning the truth, versus some biased point of view, these are not minor issues, as Randle says.

Another problem with Haut's credibility was his association with known liar Glenn Dennis, who made up a story about a nurse called Naomi Maria self telling him about alien bodies. Dennis apparently didn't realize personnel records could be searched and it was confirmed there was no nurse by that name. So couple this with the fact that Haut and Dennis and one other person founded the international UFO museum, and this gives them financial incentive to make up stories about alien bodies to drive traffic to their museum out in the middle of nowhere.

Walter Haut: Roswell hero or mythmaker?

Haut was also good friends with a former officer at RAAF, Robert Shirkey and a civilian named Glenn Dennis. Eventually, Haut would work with Dennis and Max Litell to start the Roswell UFO museum in 1991. By then, Glenn Dennis had become a household name in the Roswell circus. Almost all the Roswell writers were unanimous in their trusting of Glenn's testimony about alien bodies and mysteriously missing nurses....

Dennis would eventually be discredited but only after years of arguing back and forth the details. All sorts of arguments would be used to try and explain inconsistencies in both testimonies until it became too obvious to everyone that these two gentlemen were lying. Both of these individuals were friends/associates of Haut before they began telling their wild exotic tales of alien body recoveries and autopsies.

The Pentagon was also well aware that New Mexico was lousy with civilian Russian spies interested in Los Alamos, White Sands and of course the 509th Atomic Air wing.

So first off, hardly an attention diverter to announce publicly they captured an interstellar craft, is it? What if their buddies were looking for them? You think thats the best idea, putting it to international news? Captures of enemy personell are done in secret as much as possible.

Besides there are other world agencies that would come running to get the scoop on such an event. Then go, oh wow, there appears to be all kind of secret military testing activity in this area of the desert...

The only reason that makes sense is distinguished, dedicated professional pilots decided on their own to violate the protocols and release the information to the public at large.

They knew and understood this was much bigger than all of them.

OR, they actually had a flying disc and they thought it would be too massive an event to hide, hence the news bulletin. Only after the event the intel boys realised the faux pas and have been hiding evidence ever since. When you go down a certain road there's no turning back.

Too many unverifiable stories, no hard evidence.

Sounds like a classic SNAFU in communications between the guys in the field and the guys back at the base.

"Hey, what do you think this stuff is?"
"Maybe it's pieces of those flying saucers everybody is seeing these days."
*everybody goes nuts*

originally posted by: Arbitrageur

originally posted by: A51Watcher
How about we give a listen to the man who actually issued this press release to the media

So you create this thread focused on one person's affadavit, and call this person "the man" instead of giving his name?

Presumably you're talking about Walter Haut, but as Kevin Randle points out, his credibility problems are significant:

Good for you, you managed to figure out who "the man" is?

Gold star on the calendar for you.

Hope it wasn't TOO much work for you.

Walter Haut's Affadavit, commentary by Kevin Randle

I could pull up other statements that Walter made over the years, including ones that he made to me, but there is little point in that. We all know that he said, for decades, all he had done was write the press release. Now we have a new statement in which he is in the middle of this with all the inside knowledge that anyone could hope for.

The problem is not that his earlier statements contradict his later statements but that his later statements were highly confused, and highly contradictory even inside one interview, and inside one statement in that interview.
...
You simply can’t hide the information about Walter’s confusing statements. There are too many of us out there who have seen and heard most of the witnesses and while some of us have the will to believe, there are many others who want to learn the truth. You can’t cherry-pick the information and make it seem as if it all fits together.

I can't cite the full blog post but it's worth reading because it highlights not only Haut's confusion between his later statements with his earlier statements, but more importantly the highly contradictory internal confusion with his later statements.

For people really interested in learning the truth, versus some biased point of view, these are not minor issues, as Randle says.

Another problem with Haut's credibility was his association with known liar Glenn Dennis, who made up a story about a nurse called Naomi Maria self telling him about alien bodies. Dennis apparently didn't realize personnel records could be searched and it was confirmed there was no nurse by that name. So couple this with the fact that Haut and Dennis and one other person founded the international UFO museum, and this gives them financial incentive to make up stories about alien bodies to drive traffic to their museum out in the middle of nowhere.

Walter Haut: Roswell hero or mythmaker?

Haut was also good friends with a former officer at RAAF, Robert Shirkey and a civilian named Glenn Dennis. Eventually, Haut would work with Dennis and Max Litell to start the Roswell UFO museum in 1991. By then, Glenn Dennis had become a household name in the Roswell circus. Almost all the Roswell writers were unanimous in their trusting of Glenn's testimony about alien bodies and mysteriously missing nurses....

Dennis would eventually be discredited but only after years of arguing back and forth the details. All sorts of arguments would be used to try and explain inconsistencies in both testimonies until it became too obvious to everyone that these two gentlemen were lying. Both of these individuals were friends/associates of Haut before they began telling their wild exotic tales of alien body recoveries and autopsies.

I'm sorry but I was under the impression that Randle was not on the base that morning for that meeting, but "the man" was.

Kevin was not the only researcher who was quite surprised by "the man's" eventual disclosure.

Trying to paint his involvement in starting the Roswell museum as something nefarious is laughable and demonstrates how far to the bottom of the barrel you are digging.

You ARE aware that "the man's'" family were made aware of the events as described long before any researchers were, right?

And they were the ones in possession of his sealed affidavit after his passing, and could have chose not to release it if they felt it was inaccurate in any way.

Walter was a US Bomber pilot who survived 35 missions over Japanese targets.

How many did YOU survive Arby?

I suppose the Saucer and Alien bodies he saw were mirages right?

I'm surprised you usually never miss an opportunity to try and sell the mirage line.

...


Walter Haut actually gave us the reason for his many years of silence until his death, early on in one of the first on camera interviews he ever did -

"If you were a soldier of my vintage, you learned to do as you were told, and to keep your mouth SHUT.

Especially when your pension check depended on it."

originally posted by: abe froman
They didn't have it all yet.

Remember they were picking up debris for days.

If you release a headline that says you already have it, no one comes looking for it.

If the headline had said CRASHED DISC STILL IN FIELD the place would have been mobbed.

Hahah! good point Abe!

I believe they also had days before the meeting to do pickup while Brazel was held incommunicado.

originally posted by: Blue Shift
Too many unverifiable stories, no hard evidence.

Sounds like a classic SNAFU in communications between the guys in the field and the guys back at the base.

"Hey, what do you think this stuff is?"
"Maybe it's pieces of those flying saucers everybody is seeing these days."
*everybody goes nuts*

The reason that scenario does not fit is Marcel had already returned to base with the material before the Tuesday meeting and everyone there in the meeting got to examine the debris right then and there.

The debris Brazel brought into town was available to the military for inspection even before Marcel returned with his.

And the press release was not put out until after the Tuesday meeting.

originally posted by: A51Watcher
The reason that scenario does not fit is Marcel had already returned to base with the material before the Tuesday meeting and everyone there in the meeting got to examine the debris right then and there.

Says him. No debris = just a story.

The debris Brazel brought into town was available to the military for inspection even before Marcel returned with his. And the press release was not put out until after the Tuesday meeting.

More stories.

originally posted by: intrptr

The Pentagon was also well aware that New Mexico was lousy with civilian Russian spies interested in Los Alamos, White Sands and of course the 509th Atomic Air wing.

So first off, hardly an attention diverter to announce publicly they captured an interstellar craft, is it? What if their buddies were looking for them? You think thats the best idea, putting it to international news? Captures of enemy personell are done in secret as much as possible.

Besides there are other world agencies that would come running to get the scoop on such an event. Then go, oh wow, there appears to be all kind of secret military testing activity in this area of the desert...

Which is why the balloon cover story was put out early the next day before any world agencies could come running.

And again, even if anyone DID come running in short order, all they would find is a cordoned off area with no view as to what was in there, along with a thorough review of your ID and who you are and what are you doing here.

Doubtful Ruskie spies would enjoy that.

The only reason that makes sense is distinguished, dedicated professional pilots decided on their own to violate the protocols and release the information to the public at large.

They knew and understood this was much bigger than all of them.

I agree that they knew and understood this was much bigger than all of them, but disagree that your line of reasoning is "the only one that makes sense".

He clearly stated that this was the Pentagon's idea, not his or Blanchard's.

Walter kept his promise to Blanchard not to talk about it, as long as he lived.


Obviously he felt a post mortem statement was the loophole he could use without violating his promise.

originally posted by: Blue Shift

originally posted by: A51Watcher
The reason that scenario does not fit is Marcel had already returned to base with the material before the Tuesday meeting and everyone there in the meeting got to examine the debris right then and there.

Says him. No debris = just a story.

The debris Brazel brought into town was available to the military for inspection even before Marcel returned with his. And the press release was not put out until after the Tuesday meeting.

More stories.

Yeah says him is right, it's called testimony.

How many bomber missions did YOU survive wise guy?


Gawd so typical of today's instant gratification society.

No debris? Yeah not for YOU to look at.

Why don't you go to Wright Patt and demand to see some since you are so special and are entitled to see some?

The possibility that ever since that day NObody without a need to know has been allowed to see some, let alone even know it exists is zero, doesn't even seem to enter into your reasoning.

Seems pretty agenda driven.