SICK to death of transgenderism topics..

a reply to: SlapMonkey

Not talking about Chucky Cheese. Talking about a nice quiet dark place that an autistic child would feel comfortable in, but was told by the management that others felt uncomfortable around the autistic child. What if the Federal Government laid out a mandate that said autistic children had no right to go any place where they made people uncomfortable?

Don't forget, an autistic youth shot a bunch of 6 and 7 year old children. That might raise some safety issues.

a reply to: Freija

Children under the age of 10 don't know what they are talking about most of the time and you present me with a bunch of kids under 10 who are more than likely Actors of such or just being kids like I said..

a reply to: kaylaluv

It's up to the establishment, not the government.

As for the real issue about bathrooms, they are divided by sex for very good reasons, and some states and cities have laws mandating that you use a bathroom according to the junk you had on the day you were born.

I don't think that this issue is of such concern that the federal government needs to pretend that it knows better than the local (or at least, more local, like the state) governments or private store policies.

That's the beauty of having choice--if I didn't want to go to Target because of their policy, I can go somewhere else that differs if that makes me feel safer. So can a transgender who needs to use the bathroom.

Hell, I don't go to bars that allow smoking because I have asthma. I don't want the federal or state or city governments to mandate that bars must only allow smoking outside, though, as I believe in the rights of people to kill their lungs if they want to and for me to choose where to go based on my own needs.

This should not be a federal issue, regardless of what I believe.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

So you would be okay with your autistic child not being allowed to go to virtually any public place where they felt comfortable. If their options were so limited, that they just had to be homebound...

Good to know.

I'd be glad to hear arguments as to why the State or local levels of government are more qualified to make laws than the Federal.

IN my experience, there is far more corruption, graft and the like at the State and local level as well as politicians entrenched in the local affluent (rich) levels of society.

Why are these folks more "qualified" than national legislators to make laws?

originally posted by: SlapMonkey
a reply to: kaylaluv

It's up to the establishment, not the government.

As for the real issue about bathrooms, they are divided by sex for very good reasons, and some states and cities have laws mandating that you use a bathroom according to the junk you had on the day you were born.

I don't think that this issue is of such concern that the federal government needs to pretend that it knows better than the local (or at least, more local, like the state) governments or private store policies.

That's the beauty of having choice--if I didn't want to go to Target because of their policy, I can go somewhere else that differs if that makes me feel safer. So can a transgender who needs to use the bathroom.

Hell, I don't go to bars that allow smoking because I have asthma. I don't want the federal or state or city governments to mandate that bars must only allow smoking outside, though, as I believe in the rights of people to kill their lungs if they want to and for me to choose where to go based on my own needs.

This should not be a federal issue, regardless of what I believe.

What are the "very good reasons"?

Do you know the history of gender-segregated bathrooms?

a reply to: Mclaneinc

Couldn't agree more. I'm positive that99.99999999 % of people are perfectly happy and not at all confused about or have a problem there gender. It's so rediculous. Meanwhile the country n world has real problems that could be being addressed or talked about.

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: SlapMonkey

So you would be okay with your autistic child not being allowed to go to virtually any public place where they felt comfortable. If their options were so limited, that they just had to be homebound...

Good to know.

That's not at all what I said.

At all.

Just because I didn't give you the exact answer you apparently wanted doesn't mean that you need to start this type of BS...again...in a different thread...like always...

originally posted by: Gryphon66
What are the "very good reasons"?

Do you know the history of gender-segregated bathrooms?

I was going to ignore you, but I'll bite, as the term "very good" is subjective, and even if you disagree with my reasoning, I still have the backing of the majority of the American public to tell me that, as a society, I'm not alone.

- Women generally feel more comfortable with the privacy and perceived safety of 'doing their business' in a restroom that only females can use. Every single person I know that I have asked, save for maybe three, have said that it would make them extremely uncomfortable if a dude was dropping a deuce in the stall next to them while they're doing the same, or changing a tampon, or whatever needs to be done.

- Whether or not "news" sites like HuffPo and its ilk ("progressive," biased left-wing news) pretend that there will be no noticeable change in safety, the reality is that there will/could be, because even though I agree that if a man wants to sexually assault a woman bad enough, he will follow her into a restroom and do so, opening up those restroom doors for him to legally be in there just makes it easier, as no one would be allowed to question as to why he went in there in the first place. So, while it may not increase the rates of these types of assaults (and the same goes for women assaulting men, although that's a much smaller occurrence), it will make them much easier to commit on behalf of the criminal, and there is ZERO reason to create that issue for 0.3% of the American population, especially when you consider that (depending on your source) 6% of college-aged men are rapists (committing multiple rapes, on average) or that one-in-four men in certain Asian countries admit to having raped someone (again, on average, way more than once each). My point in stating this is that we are trying to "protect" 0.3% of the population, but in doing so could have some terrible unintended consequences for the majority of the population, as those who may abuse this open-gender restroom policy way outnumber those who "need" it.

But keep in mind, my concern over this issue stems from restroom and how they are designed now. I lived in Germany for 4 years in my early 20s, and I went through basic training and lived in military barracks where privacy is a luxury, not a right. I get that, when things are designed properly, they work well when open to both sexes. But we aren't designed like that, and it's the need for immediacy by advocates of this "problem" that are causing the majority of the backlash, because if time was given for places (of a certain square footage or traffic flow) to remodel their bathrooms to better fit an open-gender policy, I'd have no issue with it.

But that's not what's happening, so that should raise concerns with anyone who is looking at this logically and not through the glasses of emotion.

ETA: Yes, I understand the history of segregated bathrooms, and that means nothing at this point in our society where it has become the societal norm and cannot and should not be expected to be changed overnight.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
Do you know the history of gender-segregated bathrooms?

I had to go Google that, yeah, because I like facts.

Laws being made by men for women.

And today, we still have "old fart men" making laws to "protect" women.

Can we just evolve, already?

originally posted by: SlapMonkey
But that's not what's happening, so that should raise concerns with anyone who is looking at this logically and not through the glasses of emotion.

.

Looking at this logically, human waste is a health hazard.

Restrooms are not private sanctuaries, they have a specific purpose.

Everyone needs to use them. EVERYONE. Transgenders bother no one, they just need to do what everyone else does.

Are there predators? Yes. There will always be predators.

Denying a human necessity to a minority group, because you don't understand them, is anti Constitutional.

a reply to: Annee

Hello again, Annee!

No one is denying anyone use of A restroom, and the "comfort" of using the restroom (which shouldn't matter, under your logic of its utilitarian nature and it not being a private sanctuary), whether or not the labeled sex of the room matches what sex one feels that they are, is irrelevant. BUT, if the argument is going to be about comfort and feelings, I say that vast majority who are made uncomfortable by sharing the bathroom with the opposite sex (not necessarily with transgender individuals) trumps the argument from the 0.3% of the population who may (or may not) be uncomfortable going into a restroom without mandated unisex designation.

All I'm saying is that there should be time given to properly make restrooms unisex AND appropriately comfortable for most people. Hell, making bathrooms single-occupancy would also help those with...performance anxiety? What about them? Now they have to deal with the fear of the same sex being in the restroom with them, and now possibly the opposite sex walking in too?

When will it stop? I mean, paruresis is as much an uncontrollable personal issue as gender confusion is...

Let's just stop thinking we as a society can--or even need to--make EVERYTHING in life ABSOLUTELY comfortable for everyone. Sometimes just affecting the vast majority in a positive way is the best that we can (or are willing) to do.

Country where main political problem is who will crap where and who will see someones penis is a wealthy country.

No other problems to talk about , just toilets, public correctness, Hillary here, Hillarry there...

And no thinking about education problems, student loans, high taxes, less and less privacy, under payment, ...

One day I will come to live in USA and my main problem is going to be where will I poo and will guys, gays, girls, lesbians, transgender, transwhatever see and hear me.

Wake up people and start dealing with serious life problems - you would still be English playground if George Washington fought for toilets.

originally posted by: SlapMonkey
a reply to: Annee

. . . whether or not the labeled sex of the room matches what sex one feels that they are, is irrelevant.

How is that irrelevant in this discussion? And it's not sex, it's gender. It's not feel, it's identify with.

if the argument is going to be about comfort and feelings,

We would have zero progression on Equal Rights if feelings of the majority was a deciding factor.

Pretty sad that a Disability Act had to be forced into law.

All I'm saying is that there should be time given to properly make restrooms unisex AND appropriately comfortable for most people.

Unnecessary. Got a problem. Don't use public toilets.

That is currently the expectation you place on transgenders.

originally posted by: [post=20750584]
Wake up people and start dealing with serious life problems - you would still be English playground if George Washington fought for toilets.

Civil Rights is a serious life problem.

Just because this particular current Civil Rights issue doesn't affect you, does not diminish its importance to those it does.

Maybe the Fundies should worry about their self-righteousness instead of other people peeing.

I did not say it is not a problem but there are bigger problems

I would bet that any student will poo behind a tree if education was cheap.
You must choose where and when to fight.
Civil right for transgender toilets are faaaaaaaaaar more behind free or cheap education, cheap hospitals and insurance,low taxes, business opportunities for young people, care for elder, homeless...

When all that is accomplished then toilets come.

I am just popping in to respond to the OP-
Me too. Fed up with the bathroom nonsense and not reading any more.

originally posted by: Bluesma
I am just popping in to respond to the OP-
Me too. Fed up with the bathroom nonsense and not reading any more.

I bet transgenders are fed up with it too.

They just wanna pee.

They are not the ones blowing it up with nonsense paranoia.

originally posted by: Dinamo
I did not say it is not a problem but there are bigger problems

I would bet that any student will poo behind a tree if education was cheap.

Health hazard, germs can spread, affect many people.

You must choose where and when to fight.

Instruct the Fundies to keep their paranoia to themselves.

Transgenders just wanna pee in peace.

Civil right for transgender toilets are faaaaaaaaaar more behind free or cheap education, cheap hospitals and insurance,low taxes, business opportunities for young people, care for elder, homeless...

Time to deny you your Civil Rights and see what's important.

Do you even think about what Civil Rights you have? Or do you just take it for granted?

I feel like so many people who participate in discussions on this topic have a tendency to get pretty emotionally charged, resulting in people pointing fingers, saying mean things, making generalizations...

There's a lot of gray area in this topic. People are at different stages of their transformations. Some may never transition, but will live with contradicting feelings and thoughts. It's a very sensitive subject.

People who are afraid of trangenders do often seem to help instigate the arguments, and I also see people on the other side (who think they are representing the LBGT movement) who are actually helping to further the divide (just as the over-fearful, inappropriate folks on the other side are). If someone is ignorant about this topic, try to educate them but don't let them drag the whole discussion into back and forth low-blows - you can't argue with someone who is that set in their ways. Sometimes you have to let.it.go.

There are also folks who will try to use the LBGT movement for their own perverted desires and will try to exploit the system which will harm others. I think we need to at least keep that in consideration.

Looking ahead, I do unfortunately foresee scandals and issues coming up in the near future as a result of this bathroom issue as well. This is the world we live in though. Why can't we all get along? We can do better.