Raptors in the Mach Loop!

For the first time in recorded history (to my knowledge anyway), F-22 Raptors were photographed and video taped turning and burning through the world famous Mach Loop (Tactical Training Area 7T) in Western England. The Mach Loop is a low flying corridor used by the military to hone terrain following flying skills.





machloop.co.uk...

www.flickr.com...@N00/26570680672/in/photostream/

Sorry anzha but I thought it worthy of it's own thread.

a reply to: Sammamishman

If they fly that low they can be heard and spotted. If you can see it, you can kill it. Misallocation of resources.

I know, its just a movie…

a reply to: Sammamishman
That is one beautiful bird of prey.

IMHO it ranks right up there with the P-51 and F-86.

Thanks for the thread.

So cool!

Dont wish too be picky but its in West Wales not England

a reply to: Moohide

Thanks for the clarification. Never been across that pond but would like to visit someday.

That's a sneaky F15 @ 1:24 isn't it?

Fairly sure that it was actually 4 F15's I saw now after watching this (noob mistake but only got a quick look at undersides then tails).

a reply to: intrptr

Terrain following is a stealth tactic. It's a pretty old one to hide from radar stations. It pays for militaries to place mobile units in such areas but is cost prohibitive for many to do so as you cannot have one in every valley at all times since there may not even be road within 10 miles.

Pretty much those bad guys in that movie got lucky to be in the valley they chose to go through.

Beautiful! There is just something special about that bird! It has some serious mojo before it ever leaves the ground.

I don't know, somewhere about a Decade ago Novalogic had a F-22 Lightning flight simulator game that I put an unbelievable amount of time into playing. Giant fur balls mussels and hot lead everywhere! It was awesome. You could set up squadrons and talk to each other, it was epic. I made it on to the LST(Lightning strikes twice) squad and went by the handle Stormshadow. Our squad leader was either a real fighter pilot or the best trained civilian I have ever met, and he was serious about us sticking to actual tactics and communication. It was so much fun! Eta* He taught us to position incoming missiles on your wingtip and roll canopy toward it, once it is about on you pull back hard and dump the throttle wide open. You end up turning inside of a circle that the projectile cannot make. This causes it to break lock. Heat seekers, that's another story. The way we operated in this game reminded me of all my Army time in M1 tank simulators. I can get very exciting and feel very real which translates to an actual event in your mind. To your brain it really happened.

I just want a ride one time. Just once, maybe 10 times.

a reply to: misterhistory

More to the point… whats a billion dollar stealth package doing flying lo level, hiding from 'radar'? lIke all that stealth is good against modern seekers but we're practicing to keep out of sight, because like they are learning to detect stealth and future environs will be more dangerous to obsolete technology down the road.

originally posted by: Jukiodone
That's a sneaky F15 @ 1:24 isn't it?

Fairly sure that it was actually 4 F15's I saw now after watching this (noob mistake but only got a quick look at undersides then tails).

Pretty dramatic difference in the turn radius was it not? The F-22 just snapped that turn compared to the F-15.

To bad we humans limit the capabilities due to G loads. LoL

a reply to: intrptr

Yes and no from what I understand. It is possible to detect a stealth aircraft if it gets too close to the radar station. If a mission profile calls for coming in close to enemy radar, best to pop up on the screens almost on top of the target as possible.

originally posted by: misterhistory
a reply to: intrptr

Terrain following is a stealth tactic. It's a pretty old one to hide from radar stations. It pays for militaries to place mobile units in such areas but is cost prohibitive for many to do so as you cannot have one in every valley at all times since there may not even be road within 10 miles.

Pretty much those bad guys in that movie got lucky to be in the valley they chose to go through.

But how many guys on camel back with ManPads are sitting on ridge lines in those same valleys? The heat signatures given off by the f22 in the video in OP suggests even todays shoulder launched infra red seekers will be able to lock on.

Do you remember stingers deployed against Soviet aircraft in Afghanistan? New technology available to the simplest of bored militiamen caught them by surprise. It will be the same in coming conflicts. It always works that way.

In WWI it was the machine gun, in WWII the proximity fuze, in Vietnam the smart bomb (laser and TV guidance), now its the ever progressive development of missile vs stealth.

Comparatively speaking the price range guarantees victory to the cheapest alternative.

a reply to: intrptr

Depends on the mission, is it against an organized military that doesn't think to put dudes out on every ridge with ManPads daily? Is it a bunch of whackos who believe God told them to kill 5 year olds because they're infidels?

Huge difference and different in tactics. Why would you need to terrain follow a bunch of people living in caves in mountainous areas? More than likely they won't have radar anyway.

originally posted by: misterhistory
a reply to: intrptr

Depends on the mission, is it against an organized military that doesn't think to put dudes out on every ridge with ManPads daily? Is it a bunch of whackos who believe God told them to kill 5 year olds because they're infidels?

Huge difference and different in tactics. Why would you need to terrain follow a bunch of people living in caves in mountainous areas? More than likely they won't have radar anyway.

Heat seekers see heat exhaust. All engines, even stealthy ones, even with flare dispensers, are susceptible to shoulder launched missiles, easily carried by hillbilly mujahideen that live in them 'mountainous areas', having nothing better to do than sit on their mountain, waiting for a jet to fly by.

Even better, wait by the airbase for the low and slow approach of aircraft landing.

a reply to: intrptr

Why would one follow terrain to hide from radar if all you're fighting is a bunch of hillbillies with short range heat seakers? Not smart at all, just drop a smart bomb on them out of their range would be easier. They likely have no radar to begin with, so why bother even sending out a stealth? I think you're missing that I'm saying in that instance, why would a pilot in hostile territory want to terrain follow when they don't even have radar?

All counter terrorism people are afraid of your last sentence there, which falls way outside the perimeter of stealth and stealth tactics for aircraft.

a reply to: misterhistory

Why would one follow terrain to hide from radar if all you're fighting is a bunch of hillbillies with short range heat seakers? Not smart at all…

Why would a stealth fighter be training to fly lo level as a ground attack bomber? Because its primary mission is a fantasy. There are no targets currently in the military field of operations. So they are justifying its existence, the exorbitant cost per unit, by employing it in a role already addressed by other assets like gun ships, A 10s, dedicated stealth bombers, etc.

How smart is that?

a reply to: intrptr

Doesn't that also apply to the Eurofighter? Unless of course they are conducting low level training to prepare for an alien invasion, a la the Grand Canyon Scene from Independence Day.

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: Sammamishman

If they fly that low they can be heard and spotted. If you can see it, you can kill it. Misallocation of resources.

Not if you're busy pooping in your pants!

As for the vid, that flying is way more impressive than it looks...I can just imagine what 2 seconds of the wrong "nudge" on the controls would do in that proximity!

a reply to: dogstar23

A scratch that won't buff out.