UK Brexit. What should we spend the £8.5 billion savings on membership fees on if we leave?

originally posted by: berenike
8 billion could fund a lot of worthwhile small projects each year, but if you want one big spend that would benefit 90 odd per cent of households in the country: give the money to the BBC and scrap the television licence fee.

Many people would be pleased to save nearly 150 quid per year and the time and resources spent on catching and prosecuting licence dodgers would be saved.

Added bonus - the snarky little git who writes the horribly intimidating 'reminders' would be redundant.

The TV licence is already being scrapped in the near future.

It is being replaced with a mandatory entertainment tax on every household to counter the demise of live TV and the fact that is is becoming decriminalised and more and more people are using the internet and streaming to view programmes.

They are well ahead of the game on that count unfortunately.

a reply to: crazyewok

Completely agree for once. Our manufacturing industries are already at a disadvantage as we need to transport goods that much further to export to Europe.

It also adds to costs costs in domestic market due to problems moving goods around.

If we want to be able to trade both ways on a more equal footing we need a major and fairly radical overhaul of the whole transport infrastructure of the UK.

a reply to: nonspecific

Could the 8 billion be used to spare us from paying the mandatory entertainment tax?

What the heck is that anyway ffs ?

Supposing I don't want to be mandatorily entertained?

a reply to: nonspecific

Here's another thought, how about in the first 5 years we spend half the money on vocational apprenticeships, construction trades, engineering etc. £10,000 per year per apprentice allocated to colleges/employers would allow for 400,000 new apprentices.
The other 4 billion to science/engineering/technology/nursing degrees/etc, be it bursaries or whatever, say £10,000 per student, creating another 400,000. Adjust the figures accordingly, play around with them, but you get the idea.

Then when those people are skilled how about cut the apprentice/student funding in half (because we will have so many to fill the labour market) and divert the remaining £4 Billion to building social housing for cheap rent.
Let's for fun assume a cheap build average house for £150,000, that would create 26,000 new homes.
400,000 now qualified apprentices working on just the social housing builds would be around 15 per unit build.

The building boom would stimulate the UK economy, suppliers etc, and the new tradespeople would replace the Eastern Europeans currently working the positions.

It is a massive amount of money if spent in creative ways. Take nurses, there is a roughly 14,000 shortfall in the NHS right now. I don't know the costs of training a nurse but let's say it's £50,000 per year, that would only cost £700 Million.
Say it's £100,000 per year, then its £1.4 Billion.
We wouldn't need foreign trained nurses, which is a brain drain on their home countries.

All those saying the amount is tiny because it is a percent or so of UK spending should consider more about how the cash is spent. It could do many great things for Britain, easily.

originally posted by: berenike
a reply to: nonspecific

Could the 8 billion be used to spare us from paying the mandatory entertainment tax?

What the heck is that anyway ffs ?

Supposing I don't want to be mandatorily entertained?

Sorry fella it is mandatory..

Good old Tory's eh...

originally posted by: nonspecific
Sorry fella it is mandatory..

Good old Tory's eh...

So are you saying the Labour party are advocating an opt-out for people who do not wish to be entertained?
Is it just the Tories then?
Please direct me to a relevant link and I may further consider this apparent generosity from the left.

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: nonspecific

Here's another thought, how about in the first 5 years we spend half the money on vocational apprenticeships, construction trades, engineering etc. £10,000 per year per apprentice allocated to colleges/employers would allow for 400,000 new apprentices.
The other 4 billion to science/engineering/technology/nursing degrees/etc, be it bursaries or whatever, say £10,000 per student, creating another 400,000. Adjust the figures accordingly, play around with them, but you get the idea.

Then when those people are skilled how about cut the apprentice/student funding in half (because we will have so many to fill the labour market) and divert the remaining £4 Billion to building social housing for cheap rent.
Let's for fun assume a cheap build average house for £150,000, that would create 26,000 new homes.
400,000 now qualified apprentices working on just the social housing builds would be around 15 per unit build.

The building boom would stimulate the UK economy, suppliers etc, and the new tradespeople would replace the Eastern Europeans currently working the positions.

It is a massive amount of money if spent in creative ways. Take nurses, there is a roughly 14,000 shortfall in the NHS right now. I don't know the costs of training a nurse but let's say it's £50,000 per year, that would only cost £700 Million.
Say it's £100,000 per year, then its £1.4 Billion.
We wouldn't need foreign trained nurses, which is a brain drain on their home countries.

All those saying the amount is tiny because it is a percent or so of UK spending should consider more about how the cash is spent. It could do many great things for Britain, easily.

Well that's the issue in my mind.

What you say makes a great deal of sense and would more than likely work but your not in charge.

What I assume will happen is that it will be frittered away on more "outsourcing" (giving jobs to your mates firm) and dropping a few more bombs on some poor unlucky people.

I think the issue here is not the EU but the system of government we have in place and the fact that no one seems to want to really stand up to it and effect real change.

There are many flaws in your idea though, social housing for a start.

What is the point of affordable social housing? this does not benefit private landlords who can use the poor's money and housing benefit to pay for their portfolio? And how can the banks issue buy to let mortgages so the wealthy can build their portfolio's if there is enough affordable housing that the market is not artificially inflated to suit their needs?

You really need to think this through a little more fella.

Sounds like your living in a dreamworld.

One that I would happily live in but a dreamworld non the less unless we remember that there are millions of us...

originally posted by: grainofsand

originally posted by: nonspecific
Sorry fella it is mandatory..

Good old Tory's eh...

So are you saying the Labour party are advocating an opt-out for people who do not wish to be entertained?
Is it just the Tories then?
Please direct me to a relevant link and I may further consider this apparent generosity from the left.

Meh, I just like bitching at the Tories.

I got used to it and now I can't stop.

originally posted by: nonspecific
You really need to think this through a little more fella.

Sounds like your living in a dreamworld.

One that I would happily live in but a dreamworld non the less unless we remember that there are millions of us...

You see that's just the thing, if millions of us aspired for that dream world then much would change.
I encourage everyone to aspire for dreams a populace would wish for, you seem to be encouraging apathy.
To me, the day we all become apathetic is the day we've finally lost as a people.
I'll keep dreaming and advocating for others to share the dream.

originally posted by: grainofsand

originally posted by: nonspecific
You really need to think this through a little more fella.

Sounds like your living in a dreamworld.

One that I would happily live in but a dreamworld non the less unless we remember that there are millions of us...

You see that's just the thing, if millions of us aspired for that dream world then much would change.
I encourage everyone to aspire for dreams a populace would wish for, you seem to be encouraging apathy.
To me, the day we all become apathetic is the day we've finally lost as a people.
I'll keep dreaming and advocating for others to share the dream.

Most people are apethetic though.

They are scared to stand up against what they know is wrong and will sit there in their little houses with their crap lives becoming more and more downtrodden saying "but what can I do about it.

This is an American thing and not for you personally but for anyone reading this that wonders what we can do about it.

a reply to: nonspecific

That was a tragically funny film, because it represents the apathy that is found in our society as well.
If more of us actually cared enough to organise and find some political agreement we could change the things we want changing.
Personally I like a bit of civil disobedience, direct action, and protest. I'm also a thorn in the side of my MP, I love Twitter and Facebook for that public platform communication empowerment, the word 'warmonger' was strong with me up to the Commons vote on bombing Syria.

Yes, I'll keep on dreaming while doing what I can to effect change, be it in real terms, or by example and advocacy to others.
One thing is for sure though, the more people who care about the latest DFS sale than they do about the governance of our country, then more is the likelyhood we will lose that chance of the dream.

Firstly here are the facts on our EU membership fee if anyone wanted to know the details...
fullfact.org...

With the £8.5 billion we would save if we leave the EU, I would give a bit more to our farmers, particularly to our small/medium scale and dairy farmers.

I would probably be boring with the rest of the money and put it into the NHS and transport.

Don't forget this £8.5 billion is a yearly saving, not just a one time bonus.
And if we stay in the EU, I'm sure our yearly contributions will increase or our rebate will decrease.

originally posted by: 83Liberty
Firstly here are the facts on our EU membership fee if anyone wanted to know the details...
fullfact.org...

With the £8.5 billion we would save if we leave the EU, I would give a bit more to our farmers, particularly to our small/medium scale and dairy farmers.

I would probably be boring with the rest of the money and put it into the NHS and transport.

Don't forget this £8.5 billion is a yearly saving, not just a one time bonus.
And if we stay in the EU, I'm sure our yearly contributions will increase or our rebate will decrease.

Sound words but how many of our small farmers are left other than in the organic niche market?

The Supermarkets and big buying power have destroyed all but the biggest farms with super dairies and mass production farming.

It would be nice to think that we could return to a time when small scale farming was a viable option but that is yet another thing of the past.

I do not wish to appear over cynical here but the truth is the truth and I fear that the country we used to live in may be gone forever and even an EU exit will not restore it to the levels many think it will.

a reply to: nonspecific

Plenty of small farms here in the South West, in Devon it is generally considered that at least a quarter of our hedgerows are more than 800 years old, some well more than a thousand. I was working on stables bordered by fields of sheep either side of the hedgerows today. We haven't gone down the slash n burn path that the US did with massive industrial plains.

I can walk 5 minutes and buy cheap organic veg and meat from local farms. I can buy eggs from numerous small producers. I can buy farm scrumpy by the gallon container and get pissed on naturally produced cider for less than a fiver.
Yep, if a UK government of any flavour truly wanted to support and protect our farming industry we do not need the EU to do that, all the 'grants' and 'subsidies' are just UK money being given back from the Billions paid from UK taxpayers.

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: nonspecific

Plenty of small farms here in the South West, in Devon it is generally considered that at least a quarter of our hedgerows are more than 800 years old, some well more than a thousand. I was working on stables bordered by fields of sheep either side of the hedgerows today. We haven't gone down the slash n burn path that the US did with massive industrial plains.

I can walk 5 minutes and buy cheap organic veg and meat from local farms. I can buy eggs from numerous small producers. I can buy farm scrumpy by the gallon container and get pissed on naturally produced cider for less than a fiver.
Yep, if a UK government of any flavour truly wanted to support and protect our farming industry we do not need the EU to do that, all the 'grants' and 'subsidies' are just UK money being given back from the Billions paid from UK taxpayers.

With respect due I think that you may sometimes forget how lucky you are in England's forgotten corner sometimes.

I lived in north Devon, right on the crux of it for a year and a bit and it really is a different world.

Anyone wanting to live in a world that once was should upsticks and head down that way in my opinion.

Sadly the world you live in is disparaging pretty quickly, the rest of the UK is in decline and not because of the boogeyman of immigration but the ever growing influx of the "modern world"

Supermarkets, cheap #, Prirmark clothes and Mcdonalds is all you can hope for in the rest of the UK.

I grew up in rural Lincolnshire and am not yet 40 but the world we live in is beyond all recognition.

Maybe we do need a Brexit but what will the everyday folks think about it?

I would love us to have a fishing industry again but the people of the UK do not want to eat fresh caught local fish, they want Tesco value chickens raised in battery farms because it's cheap and pre made frozen dinners from Iceland for 89p.

Most of our fish goes to the continent and I imagine they are laughing at us and they should be.

It's the same with farming now that everyone thinks that they should have everything for nothing. Communities are gone, buying local is uneconomical and big business gives you a crap product at a good price.

Welcome to the future.

originally posted by: nonspecific
With respect due I think that you may sometimes forget how lucky you are in England's forgotten corner sometimes.

Lol, and with less cops per citizen than nearly all other constabularies in the whole of the UK, yep, it's nice here.

I lived in north Devon, right on the crux of it for a year and a bit and it really is a different world.

I agree completely, even though most folk here are as skint as the North of England, the South Wales valleys, or Scotland...in fact Scotland has way more public money spent on them per capita so I'll dismiss them.

Anyone wanting to live in a world that once was should upsticks and head down that way in my opinion.

No, we like it as it is!!!

Sadly the world you live in is disparaging pretty quickly, the rest of the UK is in decline and not because of the boogeyman of immigration but the ever growing influx of the "modern world"

Supermarkets, cheap #, Prirmark clothes and Mcdonalds is all you can hope for in the rest of the UK.

I grew up in rural Lincolnshire and am not yet 40 but the world we live in is beyond all recognition.

Maybe we do need a Brexit but what will the everyday folks think about it?

With sadness I agree completely.

I would love us to have a fishing industry again but the people of the UK do not want to eat fresh caught local fish, they want Tesco value chickens raised in battery farms because it's cheap and pre made frozen dinners from Iceland for 89p.

Most of our fish goes to the continent and I imagine they are laughing at us and they should be.

I had locally landed Dover Sole and chips made from local potatoes tonight, I would recommend it to anyone who eats the crap from the supermarket.

It's the same with farming now that everyone thinks that they should have everything for nothing. Communities are gone, buying local is uneconomical and big business gives you a crap product at a good price.

Welcome to the future.

You sound almost defeatist in your perspective.
#voterevolution #voteindependentdevonandcornwall

a reply to: grainofsand

I live in Swindon mate.

Allow yourself to let that sink in for a moment.

Swindon of all places and I am pretty much stuck here.

Hope you enjoyed your locally caught fish with just out of the ground potato's

We have a Primark, they love it. And an Iceland so you can can fill your kids full of crap for less than a pound a day and have plenty of cash left to spend on coins for some pointless internet farming games...

One day I will be able to move to a better place and am thinking Spain or Italy, somewhere were you can still eat and drink well and the weather is good.

I like the EU and the £2 a week it cost us is worth it if one day I can move somewhere I can eat fish, drink wine and not be bothered anymore.

a reply to: nonspecific

So jump ship to Spain or Italy instead of fighting, campaigning, engaging in protest, civil disobedience, direct action, voting, demonstrating and advocating for a better UK?
Okay.

originally posted by: RP2SticksOfDynamite
So that's what you are a Bitch! I couldn't put my finger on it at first but now I see it! You are what you are! Nevermind!

Dude, you really are not helping your 'Leave' campaign hopes coming out with posts like that.
Let it go and move on.