Stars of the Hill Map

So some would have us believe that my map / the Fish interpretation is nothing like Betty's original. Now sure how they reach that notion, perhaps befuddled by the camera rotation...

So here is a comparison of the two; Betty's original, and my map (with proper rotation)...



As even the blind can see; they are logically identical...

The reader should be cautioned about thinking that Betty's map could be a "pixel by pixel" match...such a match is even more impossible...

a reply to: tanka418

Tanka it's been 19 pages and the only things you've demonstrated are your lack of understanding of the scientific method and your inability to carry on an intelligent, respectful debate. You've not contributed any explanation for what happened to Betty & Barney. And you've completely ignored my plausible suggestion that they were victims of psychotronic warfare.

originally posted by: ColdWisdom
a reply to: tanka418

Tanka it's been 19 pages and the only things you've demonstrated are your lack of understanding of the scientific method and your inability to carry on an intelligent, respectful debate. You've not contributed any explanation for what happened to Betty & Barney. And you've completely ignored my plausible suggestion that they were victims of psychotronic warfare.

Grasping at straws, again?

So...how have I not understood the scientific method?

I wasn't addressing what happened to Betty and Barney; but, it should be rather obvious...they were abducted by Extraterrestrials from Zeta Reticuli...or so evidence might suggest.

There have been o plausible suggestions for psychotronic warfare...When you first suggested it became quite clear that in the early 1960's, when this happened, there was not enough information known about the stars to create a prototype of Betty's map. Thus, it was necessarily of off-world origins...

Although, an argument could almost be built for Gliese 86 being in the wrong place...When Ms. Fish first compiled her interpretation, Gliese 86 and the stars connected to it seemed to be further away from Zeta Reticuli, giving us the view we have in Betty's map, and the interpretation of MS. Fish. As contrasted with today's view where Gliese 86 appears much closer to ZR...a difference some "skeptics" would try to use to debunk the map...Unfortunately Gliese 86 doesn't move enough for that to work out very well.

So, anyway, I don't see quite how an Earth based group could have used any hypothetical psychotronic methods, techniques, devices, technology in 1960 on Betty and produced results they did not have themselves.


Please explain how I do not understand the scientific method...

ETA: I wasn't (I'm not) debating...I am presenting and defending a scientific theory...

Tanka,

How about you go back and re-read my post on Psychotronic Devices. I provided plenty of links that demonstrate that it is indeed, a real phenomenon. Not to mention there are hundreds of declassified pages from the CIA about their interest in such devices for the sake of Psy-Ops.

originally posted by: ColdWisdom
Tanka,

How about you go back and re-read my post on Psychotronic Devices. I provided plenty of links that demonstrate that it is indeed, a real phenomenon. Not to mention there are hundreds of declassified pages from the CIA about their interest in such devices for the sake of Psy-Ops.

I'm not questioning whether or no it is real; I'm questioning that any group of terrestrials could have had the level of information about space, stars, and what might be suitable for life...in 1960.

It is my belief that technology had not progressed to the point that all that is shown in the Hill Map, could have been known at the time...For instance, much of what is currently known had been discovered in the past 30 - 40 years...with the rise of technology these things have become known with far greater precision, and resolution than was possible in 1960. Most of what is known has been made possible by the microprocessor, and that didn't exist until 1970...a little late for Betty's map...

So anyway; I do not doubt that there are many possible psychotronic devices around, they probably did not exist in 1960, and even if they did, the psy-op fellows would still need information, data, they had no way to acquire...

a reply to: tanka418

I'm not questioning whether or no it is real; I'm questioning that any group of terrestrials could have had the level of information about space, stars, and what might be suitable for life...in 1960.

First, nearly everything we now know about the "suitability" of planets for life was developed in the early 1960's in the following RAND Corporation report: "Habitable Planets For Man," by Stephen H. Dole:

www.rand.org...

You would have known this if you did a basic amount of research. You would also know that it has been hopelessly outdated by recent advances in astronomy, planetology, and exo-biology. Of course, this is completely irrelevant, since all the evidence indicates that Betty Hill's experience was never anything more than a dream, which you would have known if you bothered to read "The Interrupted Journey," the source of the "map" you think you have been working with.

Don't you think it's time you actually responded to the objections that have been raised? Here's a partial list of assumptions you have refused to justify, which is why they can rightfully be called arbitrary:

1. You assume that Betty Hill's experience took place in the "real world."

2. You assume that the aliens were physical, and came from another star system.

3. You assume that what the alien showed Betty was a map.

4. You assume that the map was of a volume of space in our universe.

5. You assume that the map only showed stars, although Betty specified stars and planets, and took great care to draw the bodies in the foreground as planets.



6. You assume that the drawing she made was accurate.

7. You assume that the drawing was not precise. (This gives you a large degree of freedom when you attempt to match.)

8. You assume that the pattern of dots and lines on the map is unique, and cannot be superimposed on a random set.

9. You assume that it takes the aliens a finite amount of time to traverse space.

10. You assume that they must have originated in this universe within a 100 light year radius.

11. You assume that they reason like us, although their craft has a wide windshield that they turn their backs to when operating their craft.

12. You assume that the theories of stellar, planetary and biological evolution developed in the 1960's and 70's are fact.

13. You assume that the aliens would come from an F, G, or K class star because of the above.

14. You assume that the bias inherent in the Hiparcos data set doesn't matter. (Because you assume M stars don't count.)

15. You assume you know what aliens who find the fact that our feet are divided into toes surprising, would consider "interesting."

Matching your pattern to random dots establishes a control group that proves that your match is no better than chance. The natural bias of your data set results in all of the information you mistakenly believe was contained in the "map," when in fact, it was never anything more than a doodle in imitation of this:



The Hills were returning from a trip to Canada when Betty fell asleep in the car. She had probably been studying air and rail routes as well as road maps for weeks while planning their trip. Of course her subconscious coughed up a route map.

Now, pretty please, address the points that have been raised instead of turning the conversation into a discussion about software.

originally posted by: ColdWisdom
Tanka,

How about you go back and re-read my post on Psychotronic Devices. I provided plenty of links that demonstrate that it is indeed, a real phenomenon. Not to mention there are hundreds of declassified pages from the CIA about their interest in such devices for the sake of Psy-Ops.

I would like to see your material on psychotronic devices...unfortunately; I can not find the post you speak of...how about you provide a link?

a reply to: tanka418

It is not my "theory," it is yours. It is up to you to prove it, not me. If you cannot respond to the objections of your critics, your theory cannot hold water.

a reply to: tanka418

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Scroll down. There's video as well.

originally posted by: ColdWisdom
a reply to: tanka418

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Scroll down. There's video as well.

Although I am dubious about the validity of the psychotronic explanation, it is at least as valid as Tanka's and needs to be definitively ruled out by him before he can claim that he has "proof of extraterrestrial visitation." Have a star.

a reply to: DJW001

It's a long shot, I know. But the paranormal effects described by Betty/Barney along with the verified radiation exposure to their vehicle seems to indicate that some low frequency microwave pulse or EMF radiation exposure was present. To me, a top secret Psychotronic device is a much more likely explanation that alien visitors from another planet. Although I'm sure I'll be heckled to death for suggesting it.

And a Star for you too, mate.

Every man & every woman is a star.

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: tanka418

It is not my "theory," it is yours. It is up to you to prove it, not me. If you cannot respond to the objections of your critics, your theory cannot hold water.

I have already done that! And, to many of those specific issues...

I have presented my theory,
I have presented my data...which stands until it is disproven...you have not done that! Hell, man, you are still insisting on used faux science! or science that doesn't apply in this instance...you have no idea what I'm talking about do you?!!!

You continue to bring up the idea of a "control group"...which does not apply here...

[SNIP!]

Here a replication in Celestia ( www.shatters.net... ) for fun and giggles.



The red lines have been added by myself.

Star designations (for anyone who wants to replicate it):

HD 20766
HD 20807
HD 20794
HD 10700
HD 10476
HD 3651
HD 9826
HD 43834
HD 13445
HD 9540
HD 17206
HD 14802
HD 10307
Sol

originally posted by: ColdWisdom
a reply to: DJW001

It's a long shot, I know. But the paranormal effects described by Betty/Barney along with the verified radiation exposure to their vehicle seems to indicate that some low frequency microwave pulse or EMF radiation exposure was present. To me, a top secret Psychotronic device is a much more likely explanation that alien visitors from another planet. Although I'm sure I'll be heckled to death for suggesting it.

And a Star for you too, mate.

Every man & every woman is a star.

93!

Well actually I have already done that too...you need to pay attention...

The reason it is ruled out is because of available technology during the later 1950's. The reality is that the electronic systems, computing machines capable of the work required to acquire the necessary astrometric data did not exist at the time, and took at least another decade to develop...

So, I'm sorry but; no black group of psy-op perpetrators could have possibly had the data/knowledge required to "fake" betty's map. It is a unique bit of artifact that can not be attributed to anything from Earth...its only source is extraterrestrial...

originally posted by: ColdWisdom
a reply to: DJW001

It's a long shot, I know. But the paranormal effects described by Betty/Barney along with the verified radiation exposure to their vehicle seems to indicate that some low frequency microwave pulse or EMF radiation exposure was present. To me, a top secret Psychotronic device is a much more likely explanation that alien visitors from another planet. Although I'm sure I'll be heckled to death for suggesting it.

And a Star for you too, mate.

Every man & every woman is a star.

So just how does "verified radiation exposure" and "low frequency microwave" equate?

The kind of radiation that can be tested for "after the fact" most certainly is not electromagnetic radiation.

Just wondering about that wee bit of logic...

a reply to: tanka418

So, I'm sorry but; no black group of psy-op perpetrators could have possibly had the data/knowledge required to "fake" betty's map. It is a unique bit of artifact that can not be attributed to anything from Earth...its only source is extraterrestrial...

As a Thelemite, you know that a physical craft would not be necessary for an extraterrestrial to establish communication with an Earthling. Consequently, you now must prove that Betty did not receive the entire experience telepathically in her dreams and that covert intelligence agencies are not in communication with extraterrestrial intelligences that could have provided them with the necessary information to fake Betty's experience for their own obscure purposes.