Salam Alaikum - testing the limits of Swedish generosity

originally posted by: markosity1973

originally posted by: wisvol
a reply to: markosity1973

There is however a huge gulf in the view of women in society between the West and Islamic nations, especially the Wahhabi ones with Sharia law in practice. I cover off on the weird problem the segregation of women has created in Afghanistan in the thread below.

In this case I believe people who see this and live in Sweden have a responsibility to teach new Swedes and visitors alike about the respect for strangers' privacy, another aspect of the learning I mentioned.

Certainly there are more positive aspects, but this one does seem important.

edit to add:

keeping in mind that not all migrants are rapists or counter-privacy fiends

No, not all are rapists. We agree on that.

But

How do you educate people who are so brainwashed by their religion that they believe we are the ones at fault for letting our women be free?

You will not fix the world in one post. The US not long ago, had women not allowed to vote or own property. I can't walk outside, in most places without a shirt on, but you can. Why is that? Think carefully about the answer. I will generally be paid less than a man, though I only had one child and took a total of 8 weeks off of work in the 90s. So why? I understand there are huge differences in Muslim countries, but they are Theocracies, not Democracies or Democratic Republics. We will not be the same.

originally posted by: watchitburn
The refugees should be taken in by Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, UAE, Iran.

The UN could assist by building safe camps for them to live in with security until the wars are over.

Why this isn't happening yet, I don't know.

The reason is because it's being done intentionally by pencil pushers in high places.
The masters.
I mentioned this a few hundred posts ago. The post number escapes me.
If it's been deleted, I do have a copy. I had mentioned that the displaced Muslims, who are incapable of assimilating,
are being shipped off with the tick of a pencil, to Sweden, Greenland, Iceland, the North Pole, specifically in order to engender world hatred of them, and that
the masters are busy in these same areas jerking about and getting into politics (assimilating like vapors), trying to make their sick cult ritual,
male genital mutilation
into quaint social law, as proof of their handiwork. It's how they assimilate. We don't even think about them. There used to be blogs lamenting this, in Sweden, specifically.

Next thing you know, we have ISIS.

Or, if it offends you that other countries are manufacturing more crime, and better criminals, may I suggest Kraznikov's "Primary Violence Motivator"...

# 592

originally posted by: wisvol
a reply to: markosity1973

How do you educate people who are so brainwashed by their religion that they believe we are the ones at fault for letting our women be free?

Raping isn't a religiously taught notion, contrary to sadly popular belief.

I never said it was.

But Islam is as much a culture as it is a religion. And the cultural side of Islam, correct and true to the religious teachings of Islam or not, holds that women who dress like westerners are whores and do not deserve respect.

That somehow in some individual's twisted minds translates into an open invitation for sexual predation upon women.

I think for the purposes of this conversation we need to abandon the concept of absolutes. As I mentioned in the OP, I was left with very mixed feelings from that video.

originally posted by: reldra

originally posted by: markosity1973

originally posted by: wisvol
a reply to: markosity1973

There is however a huge gulf in the view of women in society between the West and Islamic nations, especially the Wahhabi ones with Sharia law in practice. I cover off on the weird problem the segregation of women has created in Afghanistan in the thread below.

In this case I believe people who see this and live in Sweden have a responsibility to teach new Swedes and visitors alike about the respect for strangers' privacy, another aspect of the learning I mentioned.

Certainly there are more positive aspects, but this one does seem important.

edit to add:

keeping in mind that not all migrants are rapists or counter-privacy fiends

No, not all are rapists. We agree on that.

But

How do you educate people who are so brainwashed by their religion that they believe we are the ones at fault for letting our women be free?

You will not fix the world in one post. The US not long ago, had women not allowed to vote or own property. I can't walk outside, in most places without a shirt on, but you can. Why is that? Think carefully about the answer. I will generally be paid less than a man, though I only had one child and took a total of 8 weeks off of work in the 90s. So why? I understand there are huge differences in Muslim countries, but they are Theocracies, not Democracies or Democratic Republics. We will not be the same.

So, you are obviously female.

The points you raise are issues where women and men still need to reconcile. Another problem for another thread. But would you come as far to agree with me that you have more freedom that a women in say Afghanistan, who is not allowed to leave the house alone and not permitted to even speak to a man in public and must be covered by a burqa outside the home at all times?

The issue in this thread is how do we help the people from these nations without endangering you, the freedoms you have thus far won and especially making sure we keep you safe from increased sexual predation.

There are other issues too, like protecting christian tradition, gay rights, organised crime etc etc, but the women are the first and biggest group to be feeling the effects of a cultural clash.

a reply to: markosity1973

And the cultural side of Islam, correct and true to the religious teachings of Islam or not, holds that women who dress like westerners are whores and do not deserve respect.

As much as cultural Christianity invades Iraq and Syria and tortures and kills.

This is to say, not a religious thing.

As I mentioned in the OP, I was left with very mixed feelings from that video.

As we all were, by design, to what end?

a reply to: reldra

The they I listed in my 1st post.
The middle eastern countries that have lots of open space and lots of resources to support their displaced neighbors.

We're not shipping Mexicans, central and South Americans to North Africa or the middle east.

originally posted by: markosity1973

originally posted by: wisvol
a reply to: markosity1973

These groups come in and they form ghettos. They do not integrate among the rest of us, they stick together and try to recreate what they have left behind in a new country. There is very little cultural exchange as a result

I believe that's really up to us as individuals.

As you say, much to be learned from new neighbours

Sweden has become the rape capital of the world and Germany now faces a similar problem.

How do we reconcile that as 'learning'? Our women are free due to the hard work they put in to educate us that they are the same as men in most ways and deserve the same rights and to viewed as equals. The men from these Arabic nations come in and view them as whores for the taking.

It seems more like a step backwards into tyranny and occupation to me.

And you can show us that this is due to muslim immigrants right? From a non right wing/extremist source?

Ill wait.

originally posted by: watchitburn
a reply to: reldra

The they I listed in my 1st post.
The middle eastern countries that have lots of open space and lots of resources to support their displaced neighbors.

We're not shipping Mexicans, central and South Americans to North Africa or the middle east.

And they are not "shipping" Arabs to us either. Last time i looked Mexicans and Central Americans were risking their lives to reach the US border and sneak in...just like they Arabs are doing here with European countries.

Did you even think for a second before you posted that?

Also...the name middle east suggests something. Can you guess what it is? I'll give you a hint. Its very vast, hot, dry, not a lot of people live in in and it starts with the letter D

a reply to: 3danimator2014

Obama and his cronies plan to do exactly that.
www.cnn.com...

I have been all over the middle east. It's really impressive how they build entire cities all at once.

They would be perfect places to house large numbers of refugees.

I've seen them set up air conditioned tent cites for 5000 people with everything you could need. Mess halls, showers laundry...

But go ahead and keep believeing what the TV tells you.

a reply to: watchitburn

You put a link to CNN in a post where you wrote

But go ahead and keep believeing what the TV tells you.

That softens the point, a lot.

a reply to: 3danimator2014

Last time i looked Mexicans and Central Americans were risking their lives to reach the US border and sneak in...just like they Arabs are doing here with European countries.

Migrants who cross the border from the USA to Mexico outnumber them consistently for the last five years.
Unsurprisingly enough

originally posted by: watchitburn
a reply to: 3danimator2014

Obama and his cronies plan to do exactly that.
www.cnn.com...

I have been all over the middle east. It's really impressive how they build entire cities all at once.

They would be perfect places to house large numbers of refugees.

I've seen them set up air conditioned tent cites for 5000 people with everything you could need. Mess halls, showers laundry...

But go ahead and keep believeing what the TV tells you.

Well, i COME from the middle east. And i have lived there for more than half my life. I dont need the TV to tell me how things are over there.

You are aware that there is a lot of tension in the middle east right? And that say...London, might be more attractive and offer more options to people fleeing war torn countries than Riyadh, right?

a reply to: 3danimator2014

The CNN link is just one of many sources for Obama agreeing to bring more refugees to the US. I'm on my phone and can't be bothered to post others.

You are aware that there is a lot of tension in the middle east right? And that say...London, might be more attractive and offer more options to people fleeing war torn countries than Riyadh, right?

What's wrong with Saudi, UAE, Kuwait, Oman?

Seems like a better fit, much closer. And they can regroup and organize to take back their countries.

a reply to: watchitburn

The CNN link is just one of many sources for Obama agreeing to bring more refugees to the US. I'm on my phone and can't be bothered to post others.

It's not about the channel, it's about the nature of television: guy who campaigned for votes saying he would cease war talking about how he's the good guy for scanning a symbolic fraction of the people who suffer new wars on his watch, before his secretary does the same.

originally posted by: watchitburn
a reply to: 3danimator2014

The CNN link is just one of many sources for Obama agreeing to bring more refugees to the US. I'm on my phone and can't be bothered to post others.

You are aware that there is a lot of tension in the middle east right? And that say...London, might be more attractive and offer more options to people fleeing war torn countries than Riyadh, right?

What's wrong with Saudi, UAE, Kuwait, Oman?

Seems like a better fit, much closer. And they can regroup and organize to take back their countries.

the other arab countries do not offer as many options and as potentialy bright future as the European countries. How are you not getting this. I lived in Saudi Arabia and as lovely as people were there (and they really were, exceptionaly friendly), the people in power there are not the most welcoming.

UAE only welcomes people with money as does Kuwait and Qatar.

Regroup and organise to take back their countries? Are you still at school or something? What are you on about? They are fleeing war because their governments have been useless at fighting for them, are actually fighting them and/or the west is bombing their country to sh*t.

How shall they start regrouping to get their countries back? Maybe a little town hall meeting to start? They can serve tea cakes and distribute AK-47s to the able men...then run 1000 miles into the desert back to their countries to kill all those bad guys. Bang Bang! Yay! ISIS is gone!

a reply to: reldra
Actually when Russia invaded afghanistan It created radical islam because th eUS gave weapons and training to help them defend themselves. And they see all foreighners as bad.

originally posted by: 3danimator2014


And you can show us that this is due to muslim immigrants right? From a non right wing/extremist source?

Ill wait.

Sure, Reuters said this

Attacks on women in Cologne and other German cities on New Year's Eve have prompted more than 600 criminal complaints, with police suspicion resting on asylum seekers, putting pressure on Chancellor Angela Merkel and her open door migrant policy.

The attacks, mostly targeting women and ranging from theft to sexual molestation, have prompted a highly-charged debate in Germany about its welcoming stance for refugees and migrants, more than one million of whom arrived last year.

www.reuters.com...

new.com.au said this

Drawing only from German media reports, the list documents more than 160 instances of rape and sexual assault committed by migrants in train stations, swimming pools and other public places against victims as young as seven.
German police use terms such as “southerners” (südländer), men with “dark skin” (dunkelhäutig, dunklere gesichtsfarbe, dunklem hauttyp) or “southern skin colour” (südländische hautfarbe) to describe the alleged perpetrators.

www.news.com.au...

Daily mail said this

Migrant rape fears spread across Europe: Women told not to go out at night alone after assaults carried out in Sweden, Finland, Germany, Austria and Switzerland amid warnings gangs are co-ordinating attacks

Sweden has issued warnings to women to be wary of potential attacks

15 young women have reported being groped by men in Kalmar, Sweden

Austrian police have come under fire after claims attacks were covered-up

Finnish police say they have information that the attacks are co-ordinated

Vienna's police chief advises women not to go out on the streets alone

Cologne police chief Wolfgang Albers relieved of his duties over handling of New Year's Eve sex attacks

www.dailymail.co.uk... Switzerland-amid-warnings-gangs-ordinating-attacks.html


That's three MSM sources, not right wing blog sites.

originally posted by: yuppa
a reply to: reldra
Actually when Russia invaded afghanistan It created radical islam because th eUS gave weapons and training to help them defend themselves. And they see all foreighners as bad.

Was it that or Iran when they deposed the Shah and became an Islamic state that came first?

I am pretty sure it was Iran.

originally posted by: markosity1973

originally posted by: 3danimator2014


And you can show us that this is due to muslim immigrants right? From a non right wing/extremist source?

Ill wait.

Sure, Reuters said this

Attacks on women in Cologne and other German cities on New Year's Eve have prompted more than 600 criminal complaints, with police suspicion resting on asylum seekers, putting pressure on Chancellor Angela Merkel and her open door migrant policy.

The attacks, mostly targeting women and ranging from theft to sexual molestation, have prompted a highly-charged debate in Germany about its welcoming stance for refugees and migrants, more than one million of whom arrived last year.

www.reuters.com...

new.com.au said this

Drawing only from German media reports, the list documents more than 160 instances of rape and sexual assault committed by migrants in train stations, swimming pools and other public places against victims as young as seven.
German police use terms such as “southerners” (südländer), men with “dark skin” (dunkelhäutig, dunklere gesichtsfarbe, dunklem hauttyp) or “southern skin colour” (südländische hautfarbe) to describe the alleged perpetrators.

www.news.com.au...

Daily mail said this

Migrant rape fears spread across Europe: Women told not to go out at night alone after assaults carried out in Sweden, Finland, Germany, Austria and Switzerland amid warnings gangs are co-ordinating attacks

Sweden has issued warnings to women to be wary of potential attacks

15 young women have reported being groped by men in Kalmar, Sweden

Austrian police have come under fire after claims attacks were covered-up

Finnish police say they have information that the attacks are co-ordinated

Vienna's police chief advises women not to go out on the streets alone

Cologne police chief Wolfgang Albers relieved of his duties over handling of New Year's Eve sex attacks

www.dailymail.co.uk... Switzerland-amid-warnings-gangs-ordinating-attacks.html


That's three MSM sources, not right wing blog sites.

So...nothing saying that Sweden is the rape capital of europe due to refugees and 2 instances that were well reported about, the Cologne NY attacks and the public swimming pool atacks. Non of what you posted hints at a rape epidemic in those countries.

And by the way, everyone knows that the Daily Mail is the UK equivalent of Fox News. Read the paper, its disgusting and they spread xenophobia and fear with the best of them. Vile newspaper.

So, kudos for NOT proving your point.

originally posted by: markosity1973

originally posted by: yuppa
a reply to: reldra
Actually when Russia invaded afghanistan It created radical islam because th eUS gave weapons and training to help them defend themselves. And they see all foreighners as bad.

Was it that or Iran when they deposed the Shah and became an Islamic state that came first?

I am pretty sure it was Iran.

Oh yeah that was before wasnt it? but the iranians didnt export it and kept to themselves. they may be hardcore but they arent radical.

a reply to: 3danimator2014

Firstly, it was the Daily Mail Australia

Secondly, you conveniently ignored news.com.au and reuters.

As for the Sweden thing, is a BBC report, talking about the actual case with Sweden.

www.bbc.com...

Happy now?

Besides, if you had bothered to read my reply to Reldra on page one, you'd see that I retracted that statement.

Man there is a lot of the three D's happening in this thread. Read it fully before replying instead of acting like mindless shills people.