Gravity wave announcement live now.

That's cool, but could this knolledge be related to the test at LHC that they thought those particals or photons, whatever they measured out there , that exceeded the speed of light did in fact happen because of gravity waves?

Without prejudice:

Gravity, as you call it, doesn't require waveform. It is not a field. It is simply a 'force', a byproduct, if you will, of rotational mass, via the use of atomic strings. There is no mystery here, no hype, no b.s. There is only one type of 'force' in the universe(s)...and that is thought. Nothing more, nothing less.

I wonder if there is any event in the universe that would create a gravitational wave so big that a distortion in distance could be seen by the unaided eye ?

originally posted by: netbound


I read a lot of posts from folks who seem to hate Einstein on some personal level. It’s almost cultish in a way.

Same can e said about the cult who praise him as a god.

Einstein’s GR, and the gravitational waves it predicts, is expressed mathematically in non-Euclidean geometric terms. It’s not easy to visualize, but the math works.

With math you can make everything work.

Einstein killed science.
Before him, science was based on observations and experimental data which holds physical ground.
Claiming that imagination is more powerful than knowledge just proofs he was a fool. If science tells you stuff like this you should get very suspicious. It has no place in physics.
People who claim they understand and believe GR and QM, just have their heads high in the sky.
As i said before, it's just the same as those who claim that the abstractism of J. Pollock makes sense, they just want to believe and fool themselfs they are better than the rest.

Gravity and gravitational waves are indeed, as you say different animals, it doesn't take away both have no proof they exist nor does gravity. It's all mathematical, gravity waves don't fit Newton's law. The math has been altered to make it work.

It's an absurd statement that two bodies attract each other by a force that is directly proportional to the product of their masses and inversely proportional to the square of the distance between them. The math may work for 2 bodies, but it can't explain the interaction between 3 or more bodies, the equation won't work and collapses.
Also is there no way to physically reproduce or test this, it has never been done.

Good luck recreating a mini solar system in a lab to verify this equation btw.

Another proof to me that gravity is a farce is the invention of dark matter and an even stranger concept dark energy.
With Newton's and Einstein's equation of gravity the universe doesn't make any sense, we shouldn't even exist.

Even at the quantum level, proof of gravity has yet to be found, that's what they are hoping to find with CERN.

originally posted by: intergalactic fire

originally posted by: netbound


I read a lot of posts from folks who seem to hate Einstein on some personal level. It’s almost cultish in a way.

Same can e said about the cult who praise him as a god.

Einstein’s GR, and the gravitational waves it predicts, is expressed mathematically in non-Euclidean geometric terms. It’s not easy to visualize, but the math works.

With math you can make everything work.

Einstein killed science.
Before him, science was based on observations and experimental data which holds physical ground.
Claiming that imagination is more powerful than knowledge just proofs he was a fool. If science tells you stuff like this you should get very suspicious. It has no place in physics.
People who claim they understand and believe GR and QM, just have their heads high in the sky.
As i said before, it's just the same as those who claim that the abstractism of J. Pollock makes sense, they just want to believe and fool themselfs they are better than the rest.

Gravity and gravitational waves are indeed, as you say different animals, it doesn't take away both have no proof they exist nor does gravity. It's all mathematical, gravity waves don't fit Newton's law. The math has been altered to make it work.

It's an absurd statement that two bodies attract each other by a force that is directly proportional to the product of their masses and inversely proportional to the square of the distance between them. The math may work for 2 bodies, but it can't explain the interaction between 3 or more bodies, the equation won't work and collapses.
Also is there no way to physically reproduce or test this, it has never been done.

Good luck recreating a mini solar system in a lab to verify this equation btw.

Another proof to me that gravity is a farce is the invention of dark matter and an even stranger concept dark energy.
With Newton's and Einstein's equation of gravity the universe doesn't make any sense, we shouldn't even exist.

Even at the quantum level, proof of gravity has yet to be found, that's what they are hoping to find with CERN.

It amazes me when people choose yo be ignorant as apposed to just not knowing. First Newtons laws work fine in most instances and can indeed model a solar system. Where it fails is to take in to account drag. In Classical stellar mechanics (or Newtonian gravity) there is no way yi figure out precession of objects close to a massive body. The reason is it doesn't take in yo account the distortion of space time. In fact this was the first proof Einstein was on to something.

The precession of the orbits is accounted for by Newton's laws of motion. Problem was the natg broke down when applied to observation. ( Notice this shoots your theory you can make math work). What Newtons equations don't take into account is the distortion of space time which slightly changed the orbit of mercury around the sun. And just from a mathematical stand point Newtons equations are very difficult to work with in celetrial mechanics because of the amount of calculations that have to be done. Einstines equations match observation exactly and much much easier to use. But as I said earlier your wrong Newtonian mechanics handles multiple bodies just fine but prepare to spend the entire day doing the math so your wrong. It Only breaks down close to a source of massive gravity.

Now let's move on to more things you choose to be ignorant about. Newton mechanics doesnt use gravity waves it doesn't care he never tried to explain gravity only set up the rules on how it reacted with bodies. Einstines theory also doesn't try to explain what causes gravity what it does do is explain that gravity causes a distortion that we need to take into account. Its these distortions that predict gravity waves. In 4 dimension if you move an object that distorts spacetime we knew waves would be created up until now we had no evidence this was occurring. This is the reason we looked for it in the first place it could have easily proven Einstine wrong through euclidian geometry. Again as I said earlier the natg wouldn't work out. (Since you seem to incorrectly believe you can just make math work telling me you never ever used calculations or performed proofs)

Now Every idea in science starts out as an idea so this point was particularly stupid when you said it. Any thing in science is always checked against the ultimate fail safe it has to match obsetvation. If it does not then we know its wrong period. This is just a lack of understanding on your part believing that science somehow stopped using observation it is the basis of science. Any experiment must provide the same results and be repeatable by others. Failure of either of these two points immediately invalidates any idea.

In not sure why you created these false assumptions but I suspect you have a personal inyrest to prove science wrong I see it often in religion. For some strange reason Christians feel the need to disprove science to some how prove the bible. This is in itself funny because disproving something doesn't validate something else we even see this in electric universe crack pots.

Now if you wish to disprove gravity waves exist make a valid point and I'll be happy to discuss it but to dismiss it because it doesn't fit into your belief system is choosing ignorance. But if your going to disprove something might o suggest understanding it first.

a reply to: dragonridr

I am no christian or follower of any other religion.

If things do not work the way they want, a constant is added to fix the problem.
Just like the gravitational constant.
When further equation no longer work, the constant’s value is altered. All physicists know this problem but it's just being ignored.

Any experiment must provide the same results and be repeatable by others. Failure of either of these two points immediately invalidates any idea.

Show me proof this shirp has been reproduced, to my knowledge it's only been observed ones.
Why makes such an announcement when repeatability hasn't been made yet, That's not the way a scientific method works.

And how is it possible to detect something way out of the instruments range and call it credible data?

originally posted by: intergalactic fire
a reply to: dragonridr

I am no christian or follower of any other religion.

If things do not work the way they want, a constant is added to fix the problem.
Just like the gravitational constant.
When further equation no longer work, the constant’s value is altered. All physicists know this problem but it's just being ignored.

Any experiment must provide the same results and be repeatable by others. Failure of either of these two points immediately invalidates any idea.

Show me proof this shirp has been reproduced, to my knowledge it's only been observed ones.
Why makes such an announcement when repeatability hasn't been made yet, That's not the way a scientific method works.

It was confirmed by two locations with different equipment it exactly follows scientific principles.

a reply to: dragonridr



They even haven't found any pattern.
It's exactly the same they measured when in 2010 data was collected but it turned out to be a blind injection.
Even measured in 2 facilities it could well be a seismic event.
Maybe it was a pre-indication of the 8.3 EQ in Chili happened 2 days later

So,if I get a surf board (ship) and catch a gravity wave, could I ride it out into the depths of space? Or even into the future? Could I get on the front side and ride it into infinity? Just wondering if any type of interaction is possible.

a reply to: intergalactic fire

I think actually this is all quite ironic - Your attitude is that there needs to be more evidence for GR and gravitational waves, and yet you are critical of science for trying to find more evidence of it, and when any evidence is presented you brush it off or say "Do it again"

Don't see the circular arguments in your own posts there?

originally posted by: intergalactic fire
They even haven't found any pattern.
It's exactly the same they measured when in 2010 data was collected but it turned out to be a blind injection.

So why wouldn't the people behind the blind injection drill tell them about it (as they did in 2010 after the researchers were taking the validity of the signal to a vote)?

The blind injection drill is being carried way too far if the people who perpetrated it let the full LIGO team publish.

originally posted by: dragonridr

originally posted by: Nochzwei
negative. einsteins equations are not used in any space flights
a reply to: dragonridr

You obviously never used einstiens equations have you?

and for which practical application have you used them? lets hear it
on another note haven't you noticed yet, that 2 black holes can merge in 0.2 secs is a nail in GR's coffin? go figure

originally posted by: Box of Rain

originally posted by: intergalactic fire
They even haven't found any pattern.
It's exactly the same they measured when in 2010 data was collected but it turned out to be a blind injection.

So why wouldn't the people behind the blind injection drill tell them about it (as they did in 2010 after the researchers were taking the validity of the signal to a vote)?

The blind injection drill is being carried way too far if the people who perpetrated it let the full LIGO team publish.

There is much at stake here and it just happened to be the 100 anniversary...

a reply to: ErosA433
nope

If such a big announcement is made without following standard procedures of a scientific method, i find it suspicious that's all.

a reply to: intergalactic fire

This is part of the procedure... you would be equally suspicious if, they carried on, and a different collaboration saw something, and or an other instrument in the future saw something and then 2 decades later they all pop out and say

Oh yeah we saw this 20 years ago.

?

cant have it both ways.

We have had people on ATS saying the opposite too "Oh if X experiment saw an observation why bother taking so long to publish the result, they surely know in a day what they are seeing so why take months over it?"

a reply to: Nochzwei

Not really, you clearly don't know the consequences of GR

Yes so as the two approach they should appear to slow right? well yes they do. As such, to an outside observer they will not combine into one, but there is a time at which we stop interpreting them as two objects because of the same time dilation effects. In terms of measurement you would expect that the Gravitational waves intensify as they become closer and closer. The external viewer of the gravitational waves will then observe the intensity diminish as the two objects become closer and as many like to think, they simply get frozen in time.

The time it takes for this to happen is actually very short, we stop being able to observe meaningful differences due to instrumentation and observational methods.

It is likely for example that should the equipment be made more sensitive, that we would observe the onset of the merger earlier, and that the final blip observed in this data would too be extended.

So no, its not a nail in the coffin any more than a box with a candle on top of it

originally posted by: Box of Rain
So why wouldn't the people behind the blind injection drill tell them about it (as they did in 2010 after the researchers were taking the validity of the signal to a vote)? The blind injection drill is being carried way too far if the people who perpetrated it let the full LIGO team publish.

originally posted by: intergalactic fire
There is much at stake here and it just happened to be the 100 anniversary...

Ok...It sounds as if it is your contention that the signal was deliberately faked by the Blind injection team in order to perpetrate a fraud on the entire scientific community and the world.

If this were a case of deliberate fraud, how would the LIGO team doing more research on this change anything? Under your scenario of this being fraud, couldn't the people who did what you allege might be a blind injection in September 2014 (for nefarious and fraudulent reasons) just do it again?

By the way, lessons learned rom the two past blind injection drills have led LIGO researchers to methods for detecting a blind injection. The LIGO team this time around found no such evidence that it was.

the merger ought to have taken many years to complete, so time ought to run incredibly fast in a black hole imo
a reply to: ErosA433

originally posted by: Kratos40
a reply to: cavtrooper7

Aahhh....Mathematically it was deduced by Dr. Einstein around a hundred years ago. We now have the technology to prove him wrong or right. He was RIGHT!

Mind blown....right?

That would also prove Einstein wrong, as he said you can't detect gravitational waves because they are to weak...

To detect something way smaller than the diameter of a proton is just silly with a laser, and to try it on earth with all the noise... the more sensitive the laser Interferometer becomes, the more noise you pick up.... they can counter that noise in a vacuum all they want, it is housed to external forces on earth..... so yeah intergalactic fire is right, it's B$ science......

a reply to: imitator

That would also prove Einstein wrong, as he said you can't detect gravitational waves because they are to weak

Source?

originally posted by: imitator
To detect something way smaller than the diameter of a proton is just silly with a laser, and to try it on earth with all the noise... the more sensitive the laser Interferometer becomes, the more noise you pick up.... they can counter that noise in a vacuum all they want, it is housed to external forces on earth....

What source of earthly noise would be picked up (almost) simultaneously in both Washington State and Louisiana?

I say "almost" simultaneous because there is a milliseconds delay in data reception that is caused by the separation of the sites. That delay is vital to the way the interferometers can detect the direction of the source.


By the way, the equipment they are using is not simply a laser, but a laser and an interferometer. Interferometers split the light then superimpose the two beams in order to detect very small differences in those two beams. The ability for LIGO's interferometers to be able to detect the small differences necessary to detect gravitational waves was demonstrated 10 years ago. You're free to give specific reasons that the demonstration of the sensitivity of the equipment was somehow not proper.