Where have all the moderates gone?

This election season has been crazy.

Two ideologies and no single candidate seems to be standing in the middle. Any candidate that dares reach out to the other side is instantly scrutinized.

While I might lean to the left, I don't consider myself an ideologue. I recognize that our political system depends on compromise from BOTH sides to be able to function. Moderate candidates win elections, that's why I think Hillary Clinton will win the presidency, while there are many conspiracy theories floating around about her, she is indeed a moderate.

Bernie Sanders does have good ideas and I would not hesitate to vote for him if he somehow manages to win the nomination, I do think that some institutions in our country need to be socialized such as healthcare, but I also believe in the free market albeit with strong regulations in place to protect the workers and consumers.

The only candidate on the GOP side that I wouldn't mind if he won would be John Kasich, sadly he doesn't stand a chance.

While I might support Hillary Clinton, it's not without reservations. I do wish she wouldn't have accepted those six figures paychecks to give speeches. I do wish she wouldn't have voted for the Iraq war, but countless other Democrats also voted for it so a vote wouldn't have mattered. However as time passes by I find myself liking her more and more. There is a clear reason why Republicans keep attacking her, they are afraid of her and she has never once backed down despite the crap storm that she has endured from the Republicans these past few decades.

The people who are screaming "Bern it all down" are mainly entitled young white men who have nothing to lose. Just like a large majority of Trump supporters are young entitled men who watch anime 24/7 and are insanely misogynistic. That's why these two candidates trail by large margins amongst minorities.

The liberals saying that they will throw a temper tantrum and not vote because their pipe dream candidate didn't get nominated obviously have no problem with a Republican president possibly having the chance to appoint several supreme court judges. These are the people who can afford not to have Bernie Sanders elected, they are not the ones on the Republican's chopping block. They sound exactly like those crazy tea party nuts screaming that Ted Cruz isn't conservative enough.

I can't remember the last time someone from either party won the presidency who was ideologically pure. Ideologues do not win elections. Until we learn how to work with one another, we will continue to have gridlock in our political system.

a reply to: muse7
It began about 7 years ago now. The derisive talk from the President every chance he got. Very unprofessional. And he continues today . The great uniter turned out to be the great divider .
Come back Teddy , we miss ya.

At least the true blue Ds do.

originally posted by: Gothmog
a reply to: muse7
It began about 7 years ago now. The derisive talk from the President every chance he got. Very unprofessional. And he continues today . The great uniter turned out to be the great divider .
Come back Teddy , we miss ya.

At least the true blue Ds do.

We definitely do need another Teddy Roosevelt.

originally posted by: muse7

The people who are screaming "Bern it all down" are mainly entitled young white men who have nothing to lose. Just like a large majority of Trump supporters are young entitled men who watch anime 24/7 and are insanely misogynistic. That's why these two candidates trail by large margins amongst minorities.

Seriously? I thought you were doing pretty good until you got to this, but this statement of yours is just insane. And you consider yourself a moderate?


P.S. And I don't like either one of these guys, so don't go claiming I'm a supporter.

a reply to: muse7
Actually I was speaking of Kennedy . Love him or hate him as long as he was around there was cooperation between both sides of the aisle and good things happened. But now that you mention it , another Teddy Roosevelt wouldnt be that bad either

The problem is our irreparably corrupt two party system. It was always inevitable that we would reach this state of extreme partisanship.

No one in our Govt is interested in fixing anything, the current mess is far to profitable for our lawmakers and their friends. While everyone is busy screaming at each other they are laughing all the way to the bank.

How anyone could like any of these candidates is beyond me.

a reply to: muse7

Just like a large majority of Trump supporters are young entitled men who watch anime 24/7 and are insanely misogynistic.

You were describing me correctly up to that point.(except for the young) Afraid you are going to have to show some statistics on that one...been married probably longer than you have been on the earth. No incident.

a reply to: muse7
I think more Parties would help this greatly, it would cut down on the hyperbolic behavior.

The Power Elite love this, we're at each others throats instead of theirs.

The moderates are still around. It just seems more polarized because the vocal ones are the on the extremes.

I mean, liberals have salon, motherjones, etc. Conservatives have theblaze and breitbart among others.

We get stuck in our echo chamber and become more and more convinced that we're right and the other side is wrong.

a reply to: muse7

I think we need an extremist. We've had decades of do-nothings in congress and the White House.

Our country has festered. We are rotting from within. High unemployment, a lackluster economy. The non-stop wars. The dissatisfaction and mistrust in government has never been higher.

We need to crap or get off the pot.

One way or another.

Go full-on socialist and write off the experiment that was America

or

Embrace freedom and capitalism and the free market.

This "middle ground" will continue to drag us down.

As for wars? We need to either fight or leave. This half-way nonsense has got to stop.

Enough of my rant, apologies if I derailed.

originally posted by: muse7




While I might support Hillary Clinton, it's not without reservations. I do wish she wouldn't have accepted those six figures paychecks to give speeches. I do wish she wouldn't have voted for the Iraq war, but countless other Democrats also voted for it so a vote wouldn't have mattered. However as time passes by I find myself liking her more and more. There is a clear reason why Republicans keep attacking her, they are afraid of her and she has never once backed down despite the crap storm that she has endured from the Republicans these past few decades.

So a six figure payment for speeches bothers you, but providing Libya and Syrian known terrorist groups with arms, which resulted in American deaths, doesn't? Or the email fiasco she continues to lie about. She has denied any knowledge of arms shipments to the ME, Turkey or any other country. Seriously Hillary? This woman has committed so many federal offenses that she should be, by all rights, in prison. This is the next POTUS that you want in office?

We get the government we deserve I guess

a reply to: muse7

There are less moderates now because this is the age of the internet. The moderate politcal political position is inconsistent and paradoxial.

For example, Obama says I have free speech. Then he says there are limits to my free speech. So in other words, I don't have free speech because the government has limits on what I can and cannot say as well as forcing me via prison to say what they want me to say. My friend for example is REQUIRED to report (ie express) information about an accident he got into. The case went to court. The conversation went something like this:
Friend: "I have some additional important points" (friend was going to bring up free speech as I recommended)
Judge: "We don't have time for that."

What he wanted to bring up is that the freedom of speech actually cannot be limited and he has a right to remain silent on what happened during the accident.

This is why I posted the thread about the Free State Project. Liberals can all move to California where they will suffer unimaginable hell, moderates can move to the Midwest where they can suffer ordinary hell, and libertarians can move to New Hampshire were we'll be wildly successful like Hong Kong and Singapore where poor people pour in by the hundreds of thousands per year to those CAPITALIST places that moderates think is so terrible. Real life is very rich with evidence that moderation is not as good as libertarian economic policies.

So, that is why there are not as many moderates now. Because they are wrong, and people don't like being wrong. They go to the internet for an education, then either delude themselves with yes men saying their socialism, communism, or whatever is correct, or they seek the factual evidence which leads them into extreme positions of libertarian economies.

The only down side is we don't have an example of more extreme economies that go even further to allow people economic freedoms. Of course Singapore is weak on social freedoms, but they are no Saudi Arabia.

a reply to: muse7

First you have to define what a moderate is.

I'm socially liberal for the most part.

But I'm also fiscally conservative, who believes that our military should be second to none.

Am I moderate?

a reply to: seagull

you're a moderator off course your a moderate... question is it fiscally conservative to fund the pentagon at its current rate? i say cut it in half and it would still dwarf all other worldwide military organisations. Just seems like a nonconservative thing. for the record i am very very pro military and anti war.

a reply to: centarix

libertarian economic policies

What are libertarian economic policies exactly? And which countries are examples of where these policies have been successful?

-dex

Hey, we're still here but we're exhausted, used, abused and reviled.

a reply to: muse7

Oh, we're still here. We just don't happen to be as loud or obnoxious as our extremely polarizing counterparts on the far sides of the political spectrum. In all honesty, there are more of us than them, so I'm not to worried at this point.

a reply to: maria_stardust

Agreed. Our very nature does not lend to spending so much energy and angst arguing with immovable objects. We're too practical and productive for that.

a reply to: kosmicjack

a reply to: maria_stardust


All I can say to both of your fantastically straight-to-the-point posts is:





... and that's why you folks get paid the big bucks

a reply to: kosmicjack

Exactly! We prefer to keep our sanity, innate ability to view things in a reasonable light and intellect in check. We pander to no extremist position.