Can anyone give me a real reason Bernie is bad for America?

I've seen some people "stick to their guns" when it comes to not voting for Bernie Sanders, and often the reasons given have to do with "socialism" - I have yet to see one person describe why his version of socialism - Which actually is similar to some of the most successful nations in the world - Is a bad thing. Yes, there's lots of opinions and banter over capitalism and free markets and such, but there's not one person proving that his moves would be bad, and doing the opposite would be good. He's the ONLY ONE that wants to take on the elite - Even if you don't like him overall, isn't his stance on big banks, billionaires - Those that literally and figuratively suck the life out of us every day - Something to support? I don't know if he could actually "take on" huge names and bloodlines, but still - It's a start, right?
Isn't his attitude towards nation-wide movements of THE PEOPLE something to support? Name another president that calls upon the 99% and their power, their opinions to change this nation.... I don't know any ( I'd honestly like if there were, so let me know! )

Show me SOMETHING that proves emulating countries with higher standards of living is a bad thing for America. I haven't seen any solid arguments on this front, just opinions and ignorant shouts of "communism!"

My mind is open - I'm logical, I can be swayed if the people that take a different position than me can show me why I should join their side. This can be done with statistics, examples, different things. Show me a way he's actually going to further go against the constitution, show me the reason our economy cannot handle more taxation of the highest class. AND show me a better candidate. Not voting for anyone won't do a thing. Voting for a .0001% candidate won't do a thing. I'm asking for realistic and applicable advice here, and would actually enjoy if someone would shed some logical and well thought out light on this situation to help me better understand those who oppose him, and why I might join that crowd.

Anyways, just tired of seeing the same old cycle of reasons not to vote for Bernie - Give me a REAL reason.

No, I do not define "real" as something that I am biased towards, or that I personally hold as a belief, for the record.

Awaiting your replies!

Deadlyhope

a reply to: deadlyhope

Can anyone give me a real reason Bernie is bad for America?

No, they can't.

F/S.

Show me SOMETHING that proves emulating countries with higher standards of living is a bad thing for America.

Again, they can't.

I haven't seen any solid arguments on this front,

There aren't any solid arguments against him

just opinions and ignorant shouts of "communism!"

Right.

Just opinions and ignorant shouts.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

I'm not assuming anyone can, I'm waiting! And I truly am open to critics of Sanders that can explain, with reason, what's bad about him. Show me some dirt on him! Show me his ties to everything we on ATS are against. ( Dynastic bloodlines, crony billionaires, etc. ) Show me an inconsistent voting record and major flip-flopping on major issues.

Sadly we have a lot of people in this country that believe that healthcare shouldn't be a right but a privilege.

That the average person should be at the mercy of those holy job creators.

No offence but this thread is pointless...

You will either be roundly ignored or you will receive the same copy paste mantras we always hear.



Almost whole generations of Americans fear what they've never experienced.

Unless you count emergency services.
Or road services.
Or military protection.

But shut up about them.

Capitalism is vomit.

a reply to: deadlyhope

I'm not assuming anyone can, I'm waiting! And I truly am open to critics of Sanders that can explain, with reason, what's bad about him. Show me some dirt on him! Show me his ties to everything we on ATS are against. ( Dynastic bloodlines, crony billionaires, etc. ) Show me an inconsistent voting record and major flip-flopping on major issues.

But....but

- they can't.....

Anyway - carry on. Hope you get some good responses. It's a very good question.

a reply to: muse7

Right? My father is a hard-learning right-wing conservative and sometimes it drives me crazy. He basically praises billionaires and "job-creators" - Jobs exist without billionaires! America is meant to be about small businesses, who can provide jobs in a competitive enviroment... Billionaires do NOT exist without workers and/or unfair/illegal advantages. Period.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

I try to hold the hope that no thread is pointless - That SOMEONE will either give me a good response, or re-think their position. I'm not counting on it, or anything, but I am hoping even one person can give me a good answer, or even one person will realize they have none.

I'll bite.

Mine is clear and simple. This America, where capitalism has long ago been swept away by crapitalism. All the "socialism" policies are any but, more of just looks good to hide the crapitalism.

Sanders wants to actually put in real socialist policies, not thinly veiled crapitalist policies. As president, he'll try his best to get his brand of socialism through congress. While in congress, his bills he pushes for will become so myrard in crapitalist attempts to add riders in the bills.

By the time it's been approved by both houses, it will be such a horrific crapitalist bill that Sanders will have to veto the very bill he was pushing for. Effectively, stalling government more than filling the capital building with molasses with the A/C on full blast during record lows in January.

a reply to: deadlyhope

A fair point to make.

There will be many lurkers and readers who will see no good answers to your valid question and in turn it may make them come to the conclusion that Bernie is indeed the man.

a reply to: misterhistory

Your answer is decent, but not specifically an anti-president reason in my own opinion. Let me explain

He actually says " I need the people " - That's something I very much respect about him. He ADMITS he cannot make change by himself, he needs the American people to support his visions and to help push his ideas into being real. Him being voted president would be a good sign, it would be the first step in the 99% voting to be more involved in changing out nation.

I do agree that the life-long Senators, Congressman, and Supreme court are not as likely to push something through that isn't packed full of crap - But any president is going to be subject to these A-holes that have been around too long. But Bernie is the guy wanting to get money out of politics, no other president is as genuine to this cause as he is. He doesn't have SUPER PAC funds, he isn't a billionaire himself or has friends to please so far as I can see.

And "Actual socialist ideas"

Medicaid
Food stamps
Social Security
Etc..etc.

We are far away from being Libertarian/Anarchist hybrids, elements of socialism are here to stay no matter which president you vote in. Certain elements are just meant more for the people, others benefit the rich and elite more ( War funding, anyone? )

a reply to: deadlyhope

When you realise that you don't actually get to vote for anyone and that the president has already been chosen by TPTB long ago, you also realise the fact, that everyone in this charade is a puppet who has never been interested in the good of others, but solely in power, pure power and thus, there is no point in arguing for any party what-so-ever as you have no choice really.

They are very good at creating the great illusion of choice, however once you see behind the curtains of these bollocks you know there is no choice.

These campaings are just sorta fabricated masquerade balls with bonhomie.

Bernie Sanders is a life long Marxist. He's not a "Social Democrat". That term is one that is now adopted as a 'chic' term in Contemporary Europe, with it's roots in Marxism, and economic MODELED Socialism, not just the "Representation" aspect.

If you look at Bernie's record, his body of 'work' he is a philosophical Marxist...through and through.

But if we take him at his mantra of "Social Democrat"...we have to address the central tenants of THAT stance itself which is "Wealth Inequality", distribution, "Social Justice", and social and cultural SOCIALLY models....which are taken from Marx/Engels and which have had very little variation from 19th century Europe philosophers and "Chicago School" Elites of the Mid Century...a collective of "Academics" which Bernie was a very active part of....basically Blue Bloods of the Neo-Left...cultural Marxists who worked to meld Neo Marxism within Capitalism...

The ideals of Social Democrats are De Facto MARXIST influenced. Were large in Germany, highly influential. And his crossover to Chicago School which was the Neo American breed was where he perfected his philosophy.

Bernie is an idealist who believes in "Bottom Up" reformation, culturally, politically, economically.

His ideals about where he wants to take America are "Philanthropic" in nature, but don't work, because the Neo-Marxists tend to ignore the enigma of AMERICAN CULTURE and voters when they compare us to their Utopian ideal...EUROPE.

Bernie is old hat, with old tricks. He points to Capitalist nations in Europe as a model, and forgets to mention that they are well stocked, financed, less populated, VERY sovereign, very controlled with immigration and welfare, and very WEALTHY from Capitalist ventures.

Bernie has stars in his eyes for the WRONG country. And his approach is outdated and behind the curve.

He claims nuance, but nothing about him is nuanced or bold or "out of the box". It's different spins on basic Socialism 101.

I don't know how people fall for it, but it goes to prove that if you repackage and clean up old books, you can sell them.

His ideas would be dangerous because his very INAUGURATION could cause a contractual mood in the markets. A guy like that is NOT liked by Markets...or "The Market"...because he would attempt a bottom up "Revenue" based makeover, at a time when people are trying to break out of restrictions and wealth gaps.

In my opinion he would stagnate our economy, influence social CRY BULLY tactics even worse, alienate the entire Congress, and would be a lame duck given the makeup of Congress in general.

Bad for business, old hat, no nuance, no growth for the middle class, and a continuation and possibly explosion of the policies of the last 8 years.

Unions would be strong and locked across the board, "Social Justice" would be front and center, Immigration would be unchecked and INCREASED....and markets would be tight...and he would get NOWHERE with Congress....issuing vetoes or sparking Majority sessions on vetoed Bills...

Bad news all around...IMO

a reply to: deadlyhope

Bernie would be a good president if he ever had a congress to go along with him.

In fact, Bernie said himself he likely won’t be able to do anything as president without massive support of the people and congress.

If he did get in it would be a worst grid lock than Obama.

And what Bernie might be doing if he beats Hillary is allow the crazy GOP to win the presidency and along with the congress wed have an unmitigated disaster.

Remember the last time we had a president and both houses of congress what did we get:

911 and the Iraq war and the 2007-8 depression.

All the problems from Terrorism, economic can be traced to the period where America had a GOP president and congress

If that happens again the world will likely be doomed

So as bad as Hillary is compared to the GOP she’s a Joan of Arc!

And Bernie may be the next Ralph Nadir

a reply to: deadlyhope

Well it is really quite simple his economic plans are insane.

You cannot increase spending by 2 trillion a year and increase taxes by 2 trillion a year.

Every time you raise taxes you diminish gdp. The reason is simple some corporations and individuals will do anything to avoid paying the higher taxes, whether that means moving to another country retiring or closing, or hiding their income from the irs.

Also for the taxpayers that stay and continue paying taxes, their ability to grow their businesses will be greatly reduced because they are making much less profit.

Higher taxes mean less jobs and every level of the economy is already at its highest debt levels ever. There is no room for more taxes, many many businesses will simply fail, meaning many many people will lose their jobs.

The economy is already very weak despite what many believe, a huge tax increase will guarantee a depression.

Now I will say this there is zero chance Bernie would get any of his economic plans through congress, but his line of thought is in my opinion dangerous and further encourages people they entitled to freebies from a larger and larger government.

Well...
Bernie is not the turd sandwich....and Trump is the giant douche.

This means that whatever your country is voting for, it will not be Bernie.

Why WILL Bernie Sanders be good for America?

There are a few reasons he may be but I'm the kind of guy that figuratively vomits when thinking about my choices. Bernie is ok but he IS a socialist. People suddenly think socialism is a great thing but WHY?

This country isnt set up to support non producers in a good way. It may not seem fair but getting the government to hand you things while doing nothing in return is bad for the country. Tell me his plans, not his ideas as I see all these ideas with no way to actually implement them.

The issue that people "deserve" healthcare, education and whatever else people feel need to be included basically SUCKS. Im an upper lower class person and I get penalized for being where I'm at and get no reward with all this social nonsense.

People want Sanders, thats fine.....People want Trump, thats fine....people want Clinton, thats fine. In the end, our broken system is still there and it doesnt matter to me at all.

I have to say that I believe Bernie to be an honest good man...but for the reasons I wrote earlier, he is the WRONG guy at the WRONG time with the WRONG policies.

He's a "Believer" and always has been. He hasn't succeeded as a Leader, a lifelong politician regurgitating old theories from the Chicago School and thinking it will turn the U.S. into a Neo Marxist utopia.

It WON'T work..

a reply to: DavidWright

People suddenly think socialism is a great thing but WHY?

We are only talking about expanding the very same stuff going on as it is:
Social Security,
Medicare/Medicaid,
Education,
Emergency Services,
Road Maintenance,
...etc.

a reply to: deadlyhope

Waiting for the he's a dirty communist responses.

A right amount of proven Socialism and Capitalism is utilizing the best aspects of both systems. Socialism is taxpayer funds being used collectively to benefit society as a whole, despite income, contribution, or ability.

l would rather pay a higher tax to fund healthcare for every American rather than paying $100 - $700 a month on health care premiums or medical bills. I doubt the increase in taxes would even come close to paying current healthcare premiums. Why should anyone have to worry about the cost of getting treated by a doctor? We're talking about lives here, not material things.

I also don't like the idea that health insurance companies are in business for profit. A person's treatment option shouldn't be based upon whether or not it's a cost savings for the insurance company . They also shouldn't be allowed to over rule a doctor's decision on treatment.