The rhetoric on ATS recently.

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In a way it kinda is about other members, apparently other members on ATS who allegedly said they want all muslims to be wiped out or something - but point taken and apologies.

All I ever wanted was an answer! I'll say in defence of christianity...and I ain't a fan - is that the majority that I know will acknowledge how archaic and pretty extreme a lot of the earlier stuff actually is. There's a general sense, if you can excuse the creationist types (not that I believe the REALLY believe the stuff they claim to) that much of what is written isn't to be taken literally.

We don't see much of this from Islam - or, at least - not in the media. I think this is key to everything and it really is wag the dog type stuff going on here. We find the Germans playing a pivotal role in recent events...like they did in the 90's Serbia/Bosnia fiasco. Many people still believe the Serbs attacked for no reason,w ithout provocation and simply massacred a group of people for nothing. the media played a pivotal part in all of this.

What Really Happened In Bosnia

I remember this and the way people reacted. I'd never heard the term "ethnic cleansing" as I was only a young teenager at the time. Naive, lived in Edinburgh - but at that age where I was beginning to pay more attention to world events reported in the news. I remember seeing on the news lines of grown men walking across the televistion, looking into the camera and crying.

I now wonder if they were Bosnia or Serbian...I'll probably never know. Point is we're at the mercy of the people who tell us what's happening. We always fall for it, we probably always will.

My real question is this - there's clearly an agenda being played out. I don't believe for one iota that this whole mess is some unfortunate accident. So I wonder who really is pulling the strings, and what outcome do they want. But instead we seem to be focusing on a non-debate that nobody can actually win. It's the political and religious equivalent of who is better - Superman or Spiderman?

Smart people here on ATS often times we find ourselves bickering like petulant brats - I think we can do better.


Just thought I'd add a few examples - most of the time when a Muslim is shown on the news it's to defend Islam. That's a red flag right there, but still you can ask yourself defend Islam against what...probably some stuff spat out by the media.

They used to boast now and again on the UK media about how Abu Hamza was allowed to spout hatred in Finnsbury Park and how they couldn't do anything about it...or something.

We hear about the various concessions being made in favour of muslims. Every other week I'd pick up the current bun and there'd be some stuff about how some school will no longer serve hot dogs in favour of halal something. It all got pretty ridiculous.

Then there was the incident with Salman Rushdie....that kinda worries folks I suppose. I don't think the media made this up, though.

Then the cartoonists who drew the prophet...death threads, mass protests. Burning embassies...it was on the news but I don't think it was CGI, although I'm no expert.

Charlie Hebdo...uh, yeah there are a lot of things that people are pretty worried about. I'm kinda worried about Germany to be honest.

I reckon they've proper lost ze plot.

I wanted to make another point on reflection - I re-read that article I linked to, the one about the Bosnia/Serbia conflict and rememberred that image again that I saw on the news. I don't think I explained that very well but it's indicative of just how powerful it was to people at the time.

It was pretty grim - it was a line of grown men, sort of shuffling - they weren't captive or anything I can't really remember the context of it - weepeing, sobbing, it really affected me and a lot of ther people at the time. I remember talking with my friends about it and not really understanding much of what it was all about.

I wasn't wordly enough at the time and actually quite immature for my age, selfish. A typical teenager who had a relatively privileged upbringing and not really appreciating the gravity of it all - but my memory of that footage I think I subconsciously associated with images of the holocaust we'd seen in school and such.

I think there's something quite profound in that - making that connection all these years later and right here and now, man that's powerful.


We haven't seen much like this - instead what we were fed by the media for the most part this time around was how they refused food and accomodation, were rioting, fighting, all this stuff. We didn't see lines of crying men shuffling along, not that much grim imagery, some but not like that stuff. the Serbia/Bosnia thing was grim.

This time they're showing us groups of young, fit and able-bodied men and all that. Does this compare to anything else in history? There's definitely a different slant on this and how it's being reported - but then anyone can report anything nowadays.

If you go to YouTube you'll find allsorts of news channels, some legit, some biased, racist, all easier to broadcasty than ever before and much easier to access. Things are all over the place, I reckon at this rate we'll see something we ain't never seen before in the history of mankind...absolute individual war, everyone against everyone.

To the winner, the spoils - and a few billions funerals to arrange....

Strange game, professor...the only winning move is not to play.

a reply to: woodwardjnr



That damm Whisky got me to on Friday

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