I am proud to be a socialist.

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: theMediator
I believe we should socialize basic needs but capitalize everything else.

Education, healthcare and the justice system NEEDS to be socialized as thinking in profits in those fields is to the detriment of the population. Also, everyone in 2015 should have a basic shelter, shouldn't starve and should have a decent chance at making a living.

The rest, capitalize the s*** out of it. Because of supply and demand, everytime someone buys a product, that person is VOTING on that product. Bad products don't sell, garbage out.

When a company fails, LET IT FAIL! We shouldn't be living in a facist system where corporations get subsidies. If they can't make it, they deserve to fail. That's the beauty of capitalism.

I am of the opinion that if you need it to survive it should be nationalised, Health, energy, water, waste, communication should all be privatised.

Ipads and BMW's hell yes let them fight for your money and create the best product.

I think you're on to something with the Ipads and BMWs. The open market will generate the best product. Would you expect that to be the same case with socialized health care?

Like it or not, the motive of profit can be fuel for innovation. It's rarely from purely altruistic motives.

Having said that, the concept of socialism is not without merit. Ideologically, I agree with it. However, the real-world implementation is flawed due to the human component. The solution to the human component is to have more governance. And governance at the end of the day relies on the threat of punishment as an enforcement mechanism, usually incarceration. And now we're bordering fascism.

Nevertheless, that's where we're headed. Democracy and socialism are inseparable.

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: network dude
Communism at it's core is a fantastic idea. As long as EVERYONE is willing to do their part, and NOBODY get's greedy. Unfortunately, we are talking about HUMANS and human nature tends to push us all towards greed.

Socialism is communism light. And all the helping other ideas are great, until you run out of other peoples money to fund those ideas. Then you have to raise taxes. And you have that problem with greed again.

Having lived in a capitalist society and seeing the benefits of hard work and good ideas, I prefer capitalism. I know I can always do something, take some risks, and might just hit the big time, but I have that chance. And if I fail, I have nobody to blame but me.

I was talking about socialist ideals?

It took that long to bring communism into the thread?

The Regan administration did a great job there did they not?

Unlike some, I don't think communism is the devil, or inherently evil in any way. It's a philosophical idea. And as I said, it's perfect, as long as everyone is on the same page. I apologize of the use of that word somehow degrades the points you are attempting to make.

originally posted by: Edumakated
It means when people are young they are idealistic. However, as they age and gain experience in the real world, they wise up and realize the world is not rainbows and unicorn tears.

Ahhh insults then?

I see no rainbows and unicorns are a mythical creatures.

Please expand on this for clarification.

a reply to: nonspecific

i have never met someone proud to be a label that was created by a rich person(s) to control the masses. nice to meet you.

originally posted by: network dude

Having lived in a capitalist society and seeing the benefits of hard work and good ideas, I prefer capitalism. I know I can always do something, take some risks, and might just hit the big time, but I have that chance. And if I fail, I have nobody to blame but me.

And we can do that in the UK to.

Ask Richard Brandson, Alan Sugar, J K Rolling et al

Or hell ask the myriads of English actors and singers.

a reply to: crazyewok

No no no silly.

You've got it all wrong.

Only Americans have the full freedom to go from rags to riches through hard work.



The rest of us all live in communistic government controlled socialist hell holes... begging our overlords for our next loaf of bread.

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: theMediator
I believe we should socialize basic needs but capitalize everything else.

Education, healthcare and the justice system NEEDS to be socialized as thinking in profits in those fields is to the detriment of the population. Also, everyone in 2015 should have a basic shelter, shouldn't starve and should have a decent chance at making a living.

The rest, capitalize the s*** out of it. Because of supply and demand, everytime someone buys a product, that person i

POublic VOTING on that product. Bad products don't sell, garbage out.

When a company fails, LET IT FAIL! We shouldn't be living in a facist system where corporations get subsidies. If they can't make it, they deserve to fail. That's the beauty of capitalism.

Public education in the US is socialized and it has been an unmitigated disaster, particularly for the poor. All one has to do is look at the VA and medicare to see how socialized medicine works.

No it just shows the USA cant organise a piss up in brewery.
Almost every other developed country has some sort of state education and many like Japan, Germany, Finland, Australia ect have working education systems.
The USA just #ed there’s up. Hell the UK had a pretty good one…..then we adopted a more American system and guess what? Its sinking……So no the problems not just state education….Its American education.

PS Don’t get me wrong I’m not a fan of heavy socialism and if I was in charge of the UK I would cut deeper and harder than our current government have (and the liberals are already squealing from the cuts). But I stand by basic services like Education, Police, Healthcare and water and a basic welfare net for short term unemployment and disability.

originally posted by: nonspecific
At some point in the fairly recent past the issue of socialism escalated somewhat.

There have been some really great threads about the benefits of the ideology yet we always seem to go around the same old arguments and it amount's to nothing.

This said I would like to say that I have a deep regard for many aspects of socialism and regardless of the attacks and insults that always ensue I will stand up and be proud for my beliefs.

It has it's failings when taken too far but a careful blend of socialism and capitalism is to me the only way to progress as both systems are flawed when taken as an extreme.

Given the choice between the two I would choose it over capitalism any day of the week.

I find your claims of victimhood strange seeing as how Democrats, academia and our media promote socialism while constant attacking capitalism.

originally posted by: DOCHOLIDAZE1
a reply to: nonspecific

i have never met someone proud to be a label that was created by a rich person(s) to control the masses. nice to meet you.

Nice to meet you too sir!

would you care to explain your question in such a way that we can discuss it?

Otherwise it will simply come across as a one post wonder antagonistic post?

I await your response

originally posted by: TheBulk

originally posted by: nonspecific
At some point in the fairly recent past the issue of socialism escalated somewhat.

There have been some really great threads about the benefits of the ideology yet we always seem to go around the same old arguments and it amount's to nothing.

This said I would like to say that I have a deep regard for many aspects of socialism and regardless of the attacks and insults that always ensue I will stand up and be proud for my beliefs.

It has it's failings when taken too far but a careful blend of socialism and capitalism is to me the only way to progress as both systems are flawed when taken as an extreme.

Given the choice between the two I would choose it over capitalism any day of the week.

I find your claims of victimhood strange seeing as how Democrats, academia and our media promote socialism while constant attacking capitalism.

What is your point here?

How would you like to proceed?

originally posted by: nonspecific
I am proud to be a socialist.

FYI, so is our 'Destroyer-in-Chief'...

Like the second poster said, it matters not what kind of 'ism' exists, TPTB have control of it.

We could have the perfect system and stick Superman in the White house and the shadow gubmint still has control.

JFK proved that without a doubt.

Disraeli said that governments do not govern and he was right.

originally posted by: Murgatroid

originally posted by: nonspecific
I am proud to be a socialist.

FYI, so is our 'Destroyer-in-Chief'...

Like the second poster said, it matters not what kind of 'ism' exists, TPTB have control of it.

We could have the perfect system and stick Superman in the White house and the shadow gubmint still has control.

JFK proved that without a doubt.

Disraeli said that governments do not govern and he was right.

You will have to excuse my ignorance but who is 'Destroyer-in-Chief'..." please?

"If you are not a socialist by the time you are twenty you have no heart. If you are still a socialist by the age of thirty, you have no head."

Why would anyone say this? Wanting to help people in need is considered very altruistic. You can think of yourself as a good person when you indulge in this kind of behavior. It is the kind of thing people think will get them into heaven because they have proven themselves to be other than self-centered and worthy of reward. Socialism feeds into that because the "poor and downtrodden" are there through no fault of their own. They're victims (of capitalism or oligarchy, or despotism) and simply need help because they are apparently incapable of helping themselves. Since socialists believe all people are created equal, any differences MUST be because someone forced it on them. To a socialist, Equality of Opportunity should automatically provide Equality of Achievement. If it does not, then it therefore must be the fault of the system.

Wholesale socialism will take care of you, and the cost is subversive. It's the road to Hell paved with good intentions. The Devil gives you what you think you want. The drive to socialism is driven by envy and resentment that anyone could have more than you do, so socialism is seen as the great equalizer. Implemented, everyone will be equally rich, but what really happens is that they wind up equally poor. Great Britain is a perfect example. faced with an existential threat during WW II the socialists wasted no time in taking over, stripping the rich of their great houses with the excuse of "It's for the children," and after the war implementing a tax system that that the Exchequer famously said of the rich, "It will make their pips squeak." (a reference to symbols in family Coats of Arms)

Now look at Britain: Empire gone, a shadow of its former self. And ironically, the only reason people go there is to see royalty and the big houses now owned by the National Trust. Without the tourist trade, Great Britain would be a third world country. That's what socialism has done to the formerly Great Britain.

Why? Because in taking care of your poor self, socialism adds bureaucracy and rules that break the human spirit. It takes away incentive. Why should you work when you can be on the dole for free? It's a welfare state where the state dictates exactly how you can live. Can you better yourself through invention or innovation? Not enough to make a difference, so why try? Socialism is not for the individual or individualism. Socialism is for the state and the government. And that's why so many socialist states turn out to be dictatorships.

And we're not talking fire departments and libraries here. It's perfectly reasonable for folks to pool resources toward the common good. Citing libraries as "socialist institutions" is daft. That's not the point. The point is living your entire lives under the socialist thumb and yolk. It's the easiest fastest way to slavery.

Do you think the Russians or the Chinese wanted to become socialist/communist? To be sure the Czars were bad news, but exactly how was socialism implemented? In the case of Russia 10 million people died to "collectivize the farms," which is a euphemism for taking away the farmers' land and socializing it. In China, 20 million died for the socialist paradise. That's the price of conversion: Death for millions.

You're proud to be a socialist? You have my utter scorn and contempt. But then, I'm older. I've seen the damage and you;re too young to recognize your own folly.

a reply to: nonspecific

a reply to: schuyler
When did the UK adopt Wholesale socialism?

Last time I checked we have lower corporate tax and less regulation in most sectors than you do !

originally posted by: Murgatroid
a reply to: nonspecific

Oh come on. this is ATS.

You have a perfectly good facebook account for those sillly arse memes.


Other than that there is this great thread for funny pictures right here.

Your better than that and you know it.

originally posted by: crazyewok
a reply to: schuyler
When did the UK adopt Wholesale socialism?

Last time I checked we have lower corporate tax and less regulation in most sectors than you do !

We are a little to close to the USSR for some peoples liking I think...

Oh no wait, that collapsed years ago and we disagreed with it but wait...


COMMIES....

Muppets of the highest order.

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: crazyewok
a reply to: schuyler
When did the UK adopt Wholesale socialism?

Last time I checked we have lower corporate tax and less regulation in most sectors than you do !

We are a little to close to the USSR for some peoples liking I think...

Oh no wait, that collapsed years ago and we disagreed with it but wait...


COMMIES....

Muppets of the highest order.

And here me thinking we joined the warsaw pact and I didnt know