Iraq gives a 48 hour deadline to Turkey move out from Iraq

a reply to: spy66

Even if the black box recorder is recovered, it will not reveal where the plane was when it was hit. Sorry.

a reply to: DJW001

That would depend on the type of flight data recorder and the parameters it is capable of recording. So don't be so sure about your statement.

It has been confirmed recovered and in Russian hands. The Russians want to unseal its data in the presence of international experts to show that the plane never violated Turkish airspace, or at least that is their claim. I won't speculate until I can see the data for myself.

Cheers

originally posted by: HickoryStick
a reply to: DJW001

That would depend on the type of flight data recorder and the parameters it is capable of recording. So don't be so sure about your statement.

It has been confirmed recovered and in Russian hands. The Russians want to unseal its data in the presence of international experts to show that the plane never violated Turkish airspace, or at least that is their claim. I won't speculate until I can see the data for myself.

Cheers

How accurate is Glonass? Something tells me there is going to be some hair splitting going on.

Turkey calls all turk citizens inside IRAQ to abandon Iraq link

Iran gave a warning to Turkey, by decreasing the daily use of gas by 50% . Turkey takes gas from Iran, so bum kabum. link

Here is an article with a MAP, showing why America and allies want Assad to vanish from earth... Its about a pipe from UAEE. The original plan was the pipe to pass through Syria, but now that Russians took over Syria, they changed route/plan through Iraq! So now the thing gets funnier. katohika.gr...

no need to translate the last link, just look the map, I gave you the basic info after all.

use google translate guys for the first link. Also the second link, have an auto-translate option under the main title and picture. If the auto-translation looks off, just ask me to translate for you small parts of these articles.

a reply to: DJW001

From the information available, the civilian GPS and GLONASS are very similar in capability and precision. I won't split hair which one is better, but there are several sources available online that compare the two. Civilian uses of theses two systems don't matter however. Military precision does, and both the west and Russia do not publish exactly how precise they are, but I would reckon it's within feet for both, but when you have a 2000 pound warhead a foot or two won't make a difference in most cases.

Regardless to answer your question, GLONASS is most definitely precise enough to show if the aircraft in question did indeed venture into Turkish airspace. We are talking about miles and not feet so hair splitting is not on the table. At least not for me, I look at evidence and make up my mind. But if the info is published, I fully expect full fledged disinformation and the "Russian technology sucks and cannot be trusted" ideology to be on the table.

Cheers

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: spy66

Even if the black box recorder is recovered, it will not reveal where the plane was when it was hit. Sorry.

The Black box is recovered. And it will for sure tell geografically where the SU was hit.

originally posted by: DJW001

originally posted by: HickoryStick
a reply to: DJW001

That would depend on the type of flight data recorder and the parameters it is capable of recording. So don't be so sure about your statement.

It has been confirmed recovered and in Russian hands. The Russians want to unseal its data in the presence of international experts to show that the plane never violated Turkish airspace, or at least that is their claim. I won't speculate until I can see the data for myself.

Cheers

How accurate is Glonass? Something tells me there is going to be some hair splitting going on.

The Russian are going to keep the black box Sealed until international observers comes and opens it. Jesse's

originally posted by: spy66

originally posted by: DJW001

originally posted by: HickoryStick
a reply to: DJW001

That would depend on the type of flight data recorder and the parameters it is capable of recording. So don't be so sure about your statement.

It has been confirmed recovered and in Russian hands. The Russians want to unseal its data in the presence of international experts to show that the plane never violated Turkish airspace, or at least that is their claim. I won't speculate until I can see the data for myself.

Cheers

How accurate is Glonass? Something tells me there is going to be some hair splitting going on.

The Russian are going to keep the black box Sealed until international observers comes and opens it. Jesse's

they invited british experts to do that in Russia. We got news, but didnt count them as very important.

originally posted by: Ploutonas

originally posted by: spy66

originally posted by: DJW001

originally posted by: HickoryStick
a reply to: DJW001

That would depend on the type of flight data recorder and the parameters it is capable of recording. So don't be so sure about your statement.

It has been confirmed recovered and in Russian hands. The Russians want to unseal its data in the presence of international experts to show that the plane never violated Turkish airspace, or at least that is their claim. I won't speculate until I can see the data for myself.

Cheers

How accurate is Glonass? Something tells me there is going to be some hair splitting going on.

The Russian are going to keep the black box Sealed until international observers comes and opens it. Jesse's

they invited british experts to do that in Russia. We got news, but didnt count them as very important.

UK will probably decline the Russian request, because the UK are a allie of the US coalition.

a reply to: spy66

that will mean, they have to hide something? They didnt invited the british military or Cameron, but company who makes investigations like that. If they are pro, I find it hard to decline. They have to do their job.

here it is link

Also take your time translating the main page and more specifically the "world" tab, it has more news of the day, that I may didn't find them necessary to post here on ATS, but it is for you.

Also this news are interesting with the downed SU-34, Russia officially stops the construction of the nuke factory in Turkey. link

Few days ago, Erdogan stated in a conference, that the nuke factory construction, is not in any danger (to stop), it proved the opposite. Other than that, it was a chill out day, not any huge and big news.

originally posted by: Ploutonas
a reply to: spy66

that will mean, they have to hide something? They didnt invited the british military or Cameron, but company who makes investigations like that. If they are pro, I find it hard to decline. They have to do their job.

here it is link

I talked to Petter ....... (Norway)... one of Our adivsor to NATO earlier today. And he said that no NATO member showed any interest in the Russian request.


EDIT to add: The request came before the weekend++. Not when it became Public news.

This article could have its own topic, but its wise to wait a bit and see what happens first.

Iraq gave a war warning to Turkey, if they dont move out, they will bombard them and its a military faction related with IRAN. *the article states

link

Iraq has had its 48 hours and then some. The score is now Turkey 3, Russia/Iraq 0.

a reply to: DJW001

This is not a game! What has happened to respecting international borders and countries sovereignty? The UN is useless, and reading this garbage makes me sick. What is wrong with you people? Are you not concerned in the slightest for our future? The world is heading for the trash bin and all you can do is treat it like a game?

God help us all.

The turks are shaking in their boots ...

originally posted by: DJW001
Iraq has had its 48 hours and then some. The score is now Turkey 3, Russia/Iraq 0.

If you hurry you can join the 10 000 troops US are sending to Iraq to fight ISIS.


www.rt.com...

The appalling hypocrisy of Turkey is clear.

They shoot a Russian plane down and kill a man because they claim he was in their air space 17 seconds

And then they boldly go into Iraq where their not wanted, and haven’t been invited.

Iraq on Turkey’s own logic can attack them

I just read this on RT and being a lurker for quite a while, I finally decided to join in on the discussion.

The US is to send some 10,000 troops to Iraq to provide support for a 90,000-strong force from the Gulf states, a leading Iraqi opposition MP has warned. The politician said the plan was announced to the Iraqi government during a visit by US Senator John McCain.
During a meeting in Baghdad on November 27, McCain told Prime Minister Haider Abadi and a number of senior Iraqi cabinet and military officials that the decision was ‘non-negotiable’, claimed Hanan Fatlawi, the head of the opposition Irada Movement.

“A hundred thousand foreign troops, including 90,000 from Saudi Arabia, the UAE, Qatar and Jordan, and 10,000 troops from America will be deployed in western regions of Iraq,” she wrote on her Facebook page.

She added that the Iraqi prime minister protested the plan, but was told that “the decision has already been taken.”

I am of the opinion that the vacuum created long ago by Saddam Hussain's removal provided an opportunity for the remnants of Iraqi army and Al Queda to take over the 'black economy'. It is an obvious fact that Iraq's invasion was about oil. Maximising Persian Gulf oil flows to avert a potential global energy crisis motivated Iraq War planners - not WMD or democracy. As Bush once admitted, Money trumps Peace.

Iraq remains a destabilising influence to... the flow of oil to international markets from the Middle East. Saddam Hussein has also demonstrated a willingness to threaten to use the oil weapon and to use his own export programme to manipulate oil markets. This would display his personal power, enhance his image as a pan-Arab leader... and pressure others for a lifting of economic sanctions against his regime. The United States should conduct an immediate policy review toward Iraq including military, energy, economic and political/diplomatic assessments. The United States should then develop an integrated strategy with key allies in Europe and Asia, and with key countries in the Middle East, to restate goals with respect to Iraqi policy and to restore a cohesive coalition of key allies.

At its inception, ISIS was a motley crew of Sunni fighters, most of them coming from Iraqs local Al-Qaeda franchise and Saddam Husseins die-hard republican army. Head of the organisation is Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, a well-known to the West terrorist with a background in Iraqs insurgency against the U.S. led coalition forces (New York Times 2014 I). ISIS began to morph into a proto-state by taking advantage of Syrias civil war.

Whereas Osama bin Ladens brainchild, Al-Qaeda, still depends on international donors, ISIS managed to reactivate a long sleeping black market economy, mainly but not exclusively, over the territories it controls. At the very epicentre of this initiative lies the shadow network of crude oil smugglers that was initially set up three decades ago by Saddam Hussein, with the aim of working around the U.S. economic sanctions imposed on Iraq (Interview with Correspondent Y 2014 a). The outcome has been astonishing, given that the Caliphates portfolio of assets now includes sixty percent of Syria's oil assets and seven oil producing assets in Iraq (Brookings 2014).

The Middle East is clearly a chess board game. Donald Trump would probably make a tacky board game about Middle East that the Americans can play indoors.

On Monday, a Russian press crew was detained in southeastern Turkey by authorities in civilian clothes. The journalists were preparing an investigative report into the alleged smuggling of Islamic State oil into Turkey. The trouble for the Rossiya 1 TV crew started only once they arrived at the border. While the crew worked in Istanbul and Ankara they had faced no opposition from the authorities. But as soon as they and tried to film close to the Turkish-Syrian border the crew was “blocked [by] the Turkish security forces” leaving them no time to even “get the camera out.”

The Russian crew was arrested in Hatay province bordering Syria as they were on their way to the neighboring province of Gaziantep. The journalists wanted to film “the border itself, military hardware, people that work at the border, and the border crossing.”

“The first thing they wanted to know [was] if we had a camera. The camera was left in the luggage compartment, locked in a case. Despite this, they took our documents, we were taken to the police station, later we photographed, fingerprinted, brought to the doctor for a medical examination to confirm that we are in a sane state, and that we are alive and well,”

The crew was later informed by the Turkish side that they were being deported. At the same time, authorities failed to explain the reason behind their move. The Russian journalists were escorted by police to the airport and put on a plane back to Russia.

Then Turkey entered deep into N.Iraq with tanks and artillery with some 150 troops and never left despite ultimatums.

Turkey’s military said on Wednesday it had carried out aerial raids on suspected Kurdish rebel targets in a new cross-border offensive in northern Iraq, AP reported. The raids “destroyed” targets of the Kurdistan Workers’ Party (PKK), in four areas of northern Iraq, including the Qandil Mountains on the Iraq-Iran border, where the PKK’s leadership is based, according to the army’s statement. The strikes were the first since tensions erupted on Saturday with Iraq over the Turkish deployment of additional troops for an alleged training mission near the northern Iraqi city of Mosul. Turkey halted the additional deployment following Baghdad’s protests.

The Iraqi parliament's Security and Defense Committee has called for a review and cancelation of the agreement with Washington on security, a committee member has stated.

US Defense Secretary Ash Carter added fuel to the fire when he recently stated that the US military would deploy a new special operations force to Iraq. "Iraq does not need foreign ground forces and the Iraqi government is committed not to allow the presence of any ground force on Iraqi land," Abadi replied in a statement.

Hadi Amiri, the head of one of Iraq's most powerful Shiite militias, the Badr Organization, warned that any US base in Iraq would be then considered a "target," AP reported.

There are currently some 3,500 US troops in Iraq on a training and support mission designed to help Iraqi forces fight Islamic State.

Of course, it is about the oil. Saudi and other gulf states are waging a price war in a scenario of over-supply (considering increased production in the US and many other middle eastern states) to disrupt the Russian economy. A central factor in the sharp price drops is the continuing unwillingness of OPEC to intervene to stabilize markets that are widely viewed as oversupplied. Iran, Venezuela, Ecuador and Algeria have been pressing to cut production to firm up prices, but Saudi Arabia, the UAE and other gulf allies are refusing to do so. Saudi officials have said that if they cut production and prices go up, they will lose market share and merely benefit their competitors. They say they are willing to see oil prices go much lower. (Well, as long as Iraqi and Syrian oil is not dealt with.)

Why does the US continually send deadly weapons to the Middle East, make things even more chaotic than they were before and expect better results the next time?

As pretty much everyone who was paying attention predicted, the $500m program to train and arm moderate Syrian rebels is an unmitigated, Bay of Pigs-style disaster, with the head of US central command admitting to Congress that the program now only has four or five rebels fighting inside Syria, with dozens more killed or captured.

I wonder what those 4 or 5 rebels would be doing, playing cards, perhaps?

Strategically, they could have armed and trained the Kurds who were in a better position to deal with ISIS.

Now all there is to do is wonder what Putin will covertly do to deal with this situation. Arctic is being militarized. Israel just upgraded its missile shield.

All these events happening in such a short span of time is raising a lot of flags and everything I mentioned above is only coming through official press coverage of the situation. The alternate media is in a frenzy.

And to think that all this oil related BS is happening in the backdrop of global warming! sh*t's f*cked up, yo.

Turkey again is trying to get the US embroiled in a 5 way war now.

America can solve this by abandoning Turkey, kicking them out of NATO.

Iraq understands that Turkey has helped ISIS and therefore don’t trust the Turks

a reply to: MisterKay

I doubt this is true. If it is then that's my plan I posted numerous times on this forum.

In fact I posted that very plan the first site of ISIS AND ONLY YESTERDAY!


I wonder if there reading ATS.

But I don't believe its true

Obama won't do that

Though I wish it were true.