Leave Me Out Of Your Agenda

Most who know me know that I am a individual liberty above all things guy. I get passionate about issues what cede control over to Government and Globalists. I believe humans have a natural right to live free and pursue what interests them.

My problem is that other people won't allow this so I get rather defensive. Let's just look at the positions I take Vs. the positions that the Authoritarian and Globalist members take on various topics.

CLIMATE CHANGE

My position is that if it is important to you feel free to change your lifestyle and write checks to whomever you think will make a difference. Just leave me out of your agenda.

Authoritarian position is that we must shout down all opposition. We must force everyone to do what we think is best for them. We must implement higher costs for energy and pass it on to everyone. We must FORCE everyone to change to act and believe just like us.

GUN CONTROL

My position is that if you don't want a gun don't buy a gun. If someone commits a crime using a gun then prosecute them for that crime.

Authoritarian position is I don't want or like guns so you can't have one either. I am afraid of guns so you can't have one. We need more laws and more control. We must FORCE everyone to change to act and believe just like us.

SMOKING

My positions is that if you don't want to smoke don't smoke. If you do smoke be courteous and cognizant of the rights of others.

Authoritarian position is I don't smoking or tobacco so you can't have them either. We need more laws and more control and ban smoking everywhere. We must FORCE everyone to change to act and believe just like us.

ABORTION

My position is that if you don't want an abortion don't have one.

Authoritarian position is that I don't believe in abortion so you can't have one either. We need more restrictions and more laws and ban abortion everywhere even if it causes health issues for the mother. We must FORCE everyone to change to act and believe just like us.

GAY MARRIAGE

My position is that if you don't want a gay marriage don't have one.

Authoritarian position is that I don't like gays or them having the ability to get married. Even though they are American Citizens we must not allow them to get married like the rest of us. We must FORCE everyone to change to act and believe just like us.

HEALTH CARE

My position is that if you want to have health insurance you should buy it or else expect to pay the out of pocket expenses yourself.

Authoritarian position is that I don't have health insurance, but you should pay for it because I don't want to. Even though no one is stopping me from getting health insurance or going to the doctor on my own or using a free clinic I think you should pay for what I want because I don't want to. We must FORCE everyone to change to act and believe just like us.

SOCIALISM

My position is that if you want some sort of safety net then you should join a private cooperative that shares in member expenses in times of crisis. For many years there we social and religious organizations that provided this service for people and they still exist to this day. If you don't like the current options then create your own cooperative and market it to people and then you will have like-minded people join.

Authoritarian position is that I am scared of being responsible for myself so I want you to be responsible for me and my choices. Life is unfair so it is more fair that I visit my expenses on you and make you pay to keep me safe. You should take care of me in times of need. We must FORCE everyone to change and act and believe just like us.

IN CONCLUSION

My philosophy is DO WHAT YOU WANT and BE RESPONSIBLE FOR YOURSELF. I am perfectly willing to help those in need when I can afford to do it and am so inclined, but I don't owe you anything and neither does society. If you want to do something then DO IT, but leave me out of your personal and social agendas.

If you push me and poke at me I will come at you and you can expect a fight. I am happy to live and let live it is YOU who started this fight.

Anyway, yeah, leave me out of your agenda and have a nice day (if you want to otherwise whatever it's your choice).

~ Metallicus

a reply to: Metallicus

Don't forget the socialist scandal that you are forced to pay taxes which fund fire departments, Coastguard search and rescue services, and police departments. It's a disgrace I tell thee, people should have the right to opt out of such things!!

Yes, in simple terms live and let live, a great philosophy to live life by.

Unfortunately some people think they can dictate the way we should live and interfere with the choices we make in life. As long as we do not cause any harm to other individuals, then anything else is nobody's business.

Nobody is saying you can't cooperate for the greater good and charge taxes to make it happen. Your characterization of Metallicus' position is really invalid. he was discussing individual liberty. he wasn't saying you should not form a public library and instead buy your own books. That's just silly and your objections can't be taken seriously.

a reply to: grainofsand

a reply to: schuyler

What is the difference between forced taxes to fund Coastguard search and rescue services and forced taxes to fund health care then?
As a concept I see no difference so please explain why you disagree, I'd love to hear your reasoning.

This coming from the guy who attacks everyone that dosent think like him, keep those rants coming.

originally posted by: Metallicus
Life is unfair so it is more fair that I visit my expenses on you and make you pay to keep me safe. You should take care of me in times of need. We must FORCE everyone to change and act and believe just like us.

So how about those forced taxes which pay for Coastguard search and rescue services, fire and police departments?
Are they not 'socialist' as well? Why are you not whining about that?
Same concept as far as I see it "keeping you safe", pick and choose which services you want to pay taxes for much? Lol

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: schuyler

What is the difference between forced taxes to fund Coastguard search and rescue services and forced taxes to fund health care then? As a concept I see no difference so please explain why you disagree, I'd love to hear your reasoning.

If you don't really know about Coast Guard rescue services, let me tell you about them. At the state level, at least, people who are rescued get to PAY for that rescue. They put themselves in jeopardy enough to require a rescue that put other people at risk to get them out of their own folly. So rescues like that don't just come out of the general fund to be paid by everyone. They are charged back to the person who caused the issue in the first place.

Now, in terms of fire departments, fact is it was once the case that you paid an insurance fee to a company to protect your house and put a sticker in your Window. If your house caught on fire all the companies that provided insurance would rush to the scene, and the one whose sticker was in the window put out the fire. Now that was considered rather unwieldy so people VOTED to create fire departments. And even today, if you get in a wreck on the road that requires a fire department response, they can "charge back" those expenses to you EVEN THOUGH you pay taxes to support them. Fire Chiefs like to keep this issue low-key because if it were generally known it would, of course, cause a firestorm of protest.

Now most of what Metallicus were talking about was personal liberty issues such as smoking. You responded with largely voter-controlled issues, i.e.: People vote for roads, libraries, schools, and fire departments. I don't remember voting for health care, though my representative certainly did. All I know is that once mandatory health care took effect my premiums DOUBLED, which put a burden on me and, if I read these horror stories correctly, put a burden on many people who can ill-afford to pay for it.

The overall point is that you can't just cherry pick what you don't like about Metallicus' statement. I don't agree with everything myself, including the "right" to kill an unborn human being, because I don't think you have the right to murder someone else. The only defense is to de-humanize that human and pretend it's just a fetus. But OVERALL I agree with Metallicus' sentiment: Individual liberty trumps socialist control.

Stay out of my life with your agenda. That doesn't mean you and I can't vote to start a public library. You are conflating the two issues, I think intentionally.

a reply to: grainofsand

Generally speaking, police and fire departments are local cooperatives. I think he mentioned those. The Coastguard is part of the common defense mentioned in the COTUS.

originally posted by: grainofsand

originally posted by: Metallicus
Life is unfair so it is more fair that I visit my expenses on you and make you pay to keep me safe. You should take care of me in times of need. We must FORCE everyone to change and act and believe just like us.

So how about those forced taxes which pay for Coastguard search and rescue services, fire and police departments?
Are they not 'socialist' as well? Why are you not whining about that?
Same concept as far as I see it "keeping you safe", pick and choose which services you want to pay taxes for much? Lol

The RNLI carry out most rescues from the sea around the coast and they are a registered charity. They get very little funding from taxpayers money and they do an awful lot of fundraising to keep services running.

Fire services in the U.K can apply charges to the person responsible for the fire, if they deem it worthy.

We all have different opinions on how society should work and people are free to talk about anything they want to talk about. We also have a choice about responding to anything we find offensive. We have all been guilty of biting back at something we do not agree with, but just ignoring it and move on is probably the more sensible thing to do.

As I said previously, live and let live, unless it threatens anyone's right to live.

originally posted by: schuyler
Stay out of my life with your agenda. That doesn't mean you and I can't vote to start a public library. You are conflating the two issues, I think intentionally.

Haha no agenda with me, I'm just taking the piss about the hypocrisy of being happy to pay taxes for fire/police departments and Coastguard search rescue services to keep you safe, but not health care. Absolutely ridiculous.

...and if you think the fees charged by fire depts and Coastguard to those rescued even comes close to funding the services then you are in dreamland.
Now again, as a concept, how do you differ between forced taxes to fund health care, and other 'safety' services?
I see no conceptual difference personally.

originally posted by: dukeofjive696969
This coming from the guy who attacks everyone that dosent think like him, keep those rants coming.

Is this about me or my OP?

And yes, when you try to shove your Authoritarian BS on me then I fight back. I was very clear about that in the OP.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: grainofsand

Generally speaking, police and fire departments are local cooperatives. I think he mentioned those. The Coastguard is part of the common defense mentioned in the COTUS.

Are you able to choose to withhold your taxes which fund those services?
...and if not, why are you happy to pay for them then? They all sound a bit socialist to me.

a reply to: Cobaltic1978

Sorry fella, I don't get your point?
I was responding to the situation as experienced by a US member, which bit of that do you disagree with exactly?
The RNLI is a bit irrelevant in this conversation to be fair.

a reply to: grainofsand

Haha no agenda with me, I'm just taking the piss about the hypocrisy of being happy to pay taxes for fire/police departments and Coastguard search rescue services to keep you safe, but not health care.

I get to vote on those LOCAL issues that are funded locally by local taxes. As far as the Coast Guard; providing for the 'common defense' is in the Constitution which is a document I support. I didn't read a thing in there about a 'right' to health care so yah, pay for it yourself like I do.

a reply to: Metallicus

So, as the constitution can be changed if enough votes from both houses wish, I assume you would embrace health care if it was enshrined in that document?
You seem to have a hard on for anything in the constitution and as it is a mere legal document which can be amended I consider your stance to be rather sheep-like at its root.

Can't you think for yourself? Is your entire position based on "If it's in the constitution" its okay?
Lol, can you not see how ridiculous that appears.

*Edit*
Oh, and search and rescue services funded by federal taxes saving the lives of civilians at the homeland coast are hardly 'common defence' are they. Rescue is not defence.

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: Metallicus

So, as the constitution can be changed if enough votes from both houses wish, I assume you would embrace health care if it was enshrined in that document?
You seem to have a hard on for anything in the constitution and as it is a mere legal document which can be amended I consider your stance to be rather sheep-like at its root.

Can't you think for yourself? Is your entire position based on "If it's in the constitution" its okay?
Lol, can you not see how ridiculous that appears.

I don't consent to being responsible for YOUR health care costs. I don't OWE you anything and yah, YOU sound ridiculous for wanting to change the Constitution to make me responsible for YOUR costs.

Pay for your own stuff and leave me out of your agenda.

originally posted by: Metallicus
I don't consent to being responsible for YOUR health care costs. I don't OWE you anything and yah, YOU sound ridiculous for wanting to change the Constitution to make me responsible for YOUR costs.

Yet you are happy to pay federal taxes for rescue services which are not in any way part of common defence?

Pay for your own stuff and leave me out of your agenda.

Why are you happy to pay local taxes funding fire departments which help other people, including those who pay no taxes?
Smells equally socialist to me, perhaps you could explain the difference?

...oh, and again I ask, if the holy constitution was amended to include health care then I assume you would support it then?
Simple question as you only seem to agree with anything if it is in the holy constitution. What's your answer?

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: Cobaltic1978

Sorry fella, I don't get your point?
I was responding to the situation as experienced by a US member, which bit of that do you disagree with exactly?
The RNLI is a bit irrelevant in this conversation to be fair.

Ah, I see what you mean.

So the rest of post I wrote is to be ignored and you'll just focus on the RNLI?

But then again, you probably just proved my point.

a reply to: Cobaltic1978

I asked you what your point was, care to answer?
Just seemed to me you were sucking up to the OP with your 'live and let live' line, pretty crap discussion forum if we are all to bow to whatever the OP spouts don't ya think?
...so, what was your point exactly?