There never has been a Christian nation

But how about a state that does seem to hold the fundamentals of
Christianity in high regard? Like say Utah?



Kinda says a lot for Christianity even if you consider the mormon
religion to be more of a cult. So how hard was it for Utah to come
up with a solution to it's homeless problem? How difficult could it
have been to remedy a situation in the most humane way possible
towards others less fortunate. Taking an unsightly embarrassment
off their city streets and at the same time saved the state a ton
of money. Does it really take the morals of Christianity to be involved
before other state run governments can even fathom a solid solution
to any problem?

It may surprise to you, but I don't think so. At least not just to
paint a pretty picture of Christianity. But I will let the fact that no
other states have shown the slightest interest in Utahs policies
testify to you. That something is dreadfully wrong with the people
running this world. But to point the finger at them only
just will not suffice.

Truly mankind, that includes us all you and I seems ill in his heart and
mind. Exponentially in decay morally, ethically and socially. He has always
been brutal but lately, it's so easy to drive by some police action, or click
a you tube video. That could easily be a scene straight out of the NT
being played out, right here in the twentyfirst century.

Skip to around 14 minutes



I think man has just enough intelligence and lacks just enough heart to
make him a loose cannon upon the earth. We seem to be like LOST
CHILDREN lacking the guidance of a Father. Sadly, we are all
just renegades and runaways.



Children of the Sea

In the misty morning, on the edge of time
We've lost the rising sun, a final sign
As the misty morning rolls away to die
Reaching for the stars, we blind the sky

We sailed across the air before we learned to fly
We thought that it could never end
We'd glide above the ground before we learned to run, run
Now it seems our world has come undone

Oh they say that it's over
And it just had to be
Ooh they say that it's over
We're lost children of the sea, oh

We made the mountains shake with laughter as we played
Hiding in our corner of the world
Then we did the demon dance and rushed to nevermore
Threw away the key and locked the door

Oh they say that it's over, yeah
And it just had to be
Yes they say that it's over
We're lost children of the sea

In the misty morning, on the edge of time
We've lost the rising sun, a final sign
As the misty morning rolls away to die
Reaching for the stars, we blind the sky

Oh they say that it's over, yeah
And it just had to be
Oh they say that it's over
Poor lost children of the sea, yeah

LOOK OUT! The sky is falling down!
LOOK OUT! The world is spinning round and round and round!
LOOK OUT! The sun is going black, black
LOOK OUT! It's never never never coming back, LOOK OUT!

There never has been a Christian nation.
But there is a Kingdom of God.

a reply to: randyvs

Well England and Ethiopia had a good crack at it. What about the Vatican State (smallest state in the world)? The King or Queen of England was "defender of the faith". King Haile Selassie was the head of the Ethiopian Orthodox Church. Sadly He is gone and old Ethiopia is now a secular state and England is politically secular though the Queen still presides over the Church of England. There have been various attempts, but all have severe shortcomings (to put it mildly).

Yet we fail as Christian individuals, too. I try hard, but there are still some sins I commit regularly. I am in a constant process of ironing out the creases in my soul, but it is the darnedest creasiest shirt you ever did see!

Go strong Utah. Sounds very progressive what is happening there.

a reply to: randyvs

'cept maybe the Holy Roman Empire. Eventually?

a reply to: Revolution9

Yet we fail as Christian individuals, too. I try hard, but there are still some sins I commit regularly. I am in a constant process of ironing out the creases in my soul, but it is the darnedest creasiest shirt you ever did see!

I can assure you I'm no saint by the wildest imagination brother.

a reply to: randyvs

I hope you know that you are endorsing socialism here.

a reply to: Krazysh0t


Ya know the thouight just never crossed my mind.
Why does it have to be all that Shot?

a reply to: randyvs

Nor do I suspect that there ever will be, though this should not stop us from acting as if we wish it to be. And as you say 'there IS a Kingdom of God," and acting along those lines, as if we ARE being the best citizens of that kingdom that we might be.

Though many of the Mormon tenets seem goofy to me, this, among other noble aspects of their faith prove to me that they are not an enemy, but rather good neighbors and friends.

a reply to: TerryMcGuire

I think that's a good way to see it and a great reply.

a reply to: randyvs

Because the idea of the government paying for housing for the homeless is a Socialist idea.

Let's not forget that Mormonism has at it roots a communist ideology. They created the first communist town in the US.

All one has to do is research the United Order.

a reply to: randyvs

That's fantastic. I don't really see what it has to do with Christianity, though. It was the government that did this.

Utah is Ending Homelessness

In eight years, Utah has quietly reduced homelessness by 78 percent, and is on track to end homelessness by 2015.

How did Utah accomplish this? Simple. Utah solved homelessness by giving people homes. In 2005, Utah figured out that the annual cost of E.R. visits and jail stays for homeless people was about $16,670 per person, compared to $11,000 to provide each homeless person with an apartment and a social worker. So, the state began giving away apartments, with no strings attached. Each participant in Utah’s Housing First program also gets a caseworker to help them become self-sufficient, but they keep the apartment even if they fail. The program has been so successful that other states are hoping to achieve similar results with programs modeled on Utah’s.
...
Republicans in Congress would probably have required the homeless to take a drug test before getting an apartment, denied apartments to homeless people with criminal records, and evicted those who failed to become self-sufficient after five years or so. But Utah’s results show that even conservative states can solve problems like homelessness with decidedly progressive solutions.

Just really smart! You go, Utah!

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

That's fantastic. I don't really see what it has to do with Christianity, though. It was the government that did this.

Thank you. I thought I was having a brain fart, and missed something.

Just really smart! You go, Utah!

VATICAN ...HA ..I run CIRCLES around you with logic.

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

I suppose that sentence magically vanished? Don't worry, I'll correct it for you.

In eight years, Utah has quietly reduced homelessness by 78 percent, and is on track to end homelessness by 2015.

How did Utah accomplish this? Simple. Utah solved homelessness by giving people homes. In 2005, Utah figured out that the annual cost of E.R. visits and jail stays for homeless people was about $16,670 per person, compared to $11,000 to provide each homeless person with an apartment and a social worker. So, the state began giving away apartments, with no strings attached. Each participant in Utah’s Housing First program also gets a caseworker to help them become self-sufficient, but they keep the apartment even if they fail. The program has been so successful that other states are hoping to achieve similar results with programs modeled on Utah’s.

This happened in a Republican state! Republicans in Congress would probably have required the homeless to take a drug test before getting an apartment, denied apartments to homeless people with criminal records, and evicted those who failed to become self-sufficient after five years or so. But Utah’s results show that even conservative states can solve problems like homelessness with decidedly progressive solutions.

originally posted by: randyvs
But I will let the fact that no other states have shown the slightest interest in Utahs policies testify to you.

Actually, Wyoming is looking to Utah's program to solve it's homelessness, already having results.

Other states are eager to emulate Utah’s results. Wyoming has seen its homeless population more than double in the past three years, and it only provides shelter for 26 percent of them, the lowest rate in the country. City officials in Casper, Wyoming, now plan to launch a pilot program using the methods of Utah’s Housing First program. There’s no telling how far the idea might go.

Give the Homeless Homes

But in fact Housing First has become the rule in hundreds of cities around the country, in states both red and blue.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

No, I just didn't think it was relevant and I used an ellipsis to let everyone know that it was only a partial quote.

I also didn't post the horrible things Hawaii, North Carolina, South Carolina or Florida did to their people. I left a link, so everyone could read the whole article.

So, did you have something to say about the original story? Or did you just come in here to start something?

a reply to: Krazysh0t

but should appeal to the capitalist too as its the cheaper option.

A good idea is a good idea no matter who has it - to throw it away because it comes from a group or individual you don't like seems rather short sighted to me.

The Byzantine Empire was a Christian theocracy so I wouldn't say your title is completely accurate, but it seems in today's America the Christian right is pretty much opposed to what Jesus taught as far as helping others without expectation of return. They don't want to give anything away, they don't want to help those in need but instead call them bottom feeders who leach off of the system. Mind you, this isn't just Christians who do this but it is a good bit of them who do.

Good on Utah, but what they are doing seems to go against what mainstream Christians are fighting for today in America, which is pretty much the opposite of what Jesus wanted.

(ETA: The Byzantine Empire wasn't technically a theocracy, but they did enforce Christianity.)

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

No, I just didn't think it was relevant.

The speculation following the fact you removed was irrelevant. You removed the only observable fact of that paragraph, but left in the speculation. It's disinformation.

So, did you have something to say about the original story? Or did you just come in here to start something?

Yeah without the contextomy, it's a good story.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
The speculation following the fact you removed was irrelevant. You removed the only observable fact of that paragraph, but left in the speculation.

How about this? You decide what you post and I'll decide what I post. Okee dokee?

By the way, in the paragraph I posted, it says, "But Utah’s results show that even conservative states can solve problems like homelessness with decidedly progressive solutions."