Maths Proof: God Created the Universe

originally posted by: namelesss

originally posted by: TheLamb
Maths Proof: God Created the Universe

More nonsense!
The 'belief infested' must constantly 'defend' and 'feed/validate' and 'spread' his 'belief infection'!
And do this sort of pseudo-intellectual contortions.
'Faith', on the other hand, never needs to resort to this Faithless mental masturbation for support!
'Faith' is Knowledge/experience!
'Belief' in an infection of the imagination, the ego! Vanity.
'Creation' is simply impossible; philosophically, logically, scientifically!
Math is no more than imaginary!

"As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain; and as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality."
-- Albert Einstein
Quoted in J R Newman, The World of Mathematics

Ah, but that's where you're wrong. Are you of faith? Where did you get your faith from? Your parents? Your pastor? And where did they get theirs from? Did anyone along the line actually do any legwork themselves to achieve this faith? Was it recent? If not, then it's the same as still water - it goes stagnant. Does that please God? No, it disappoints Him. He wants to see his Creation improve upon itself and the only way you can do that is with creative thought. Following the same old rules dampens creativity. You should be asking "So who are you God? What are you really like?" and searching for answers that satisfy you. That's what the Bible is for. And it's all tooled up for the here and now. It is loaded with "scientific" data if you look properly for it with a creative mind. You can get to know God in more tangible forms.

Prove that Creation is impossible so that I'm satisfied. Oh hang on, that would require breaking some rules and being a little creative.

a reply to: Agree2Disagree

The default position, for any extraordinary claim without any supporting evidence, is that the claim is false.

originally posted by: noonebutme
a reply to: TheLamb

No i don't think so. You are putting your personal interpretation of that text, written 2000 years ago when they thought sacrificing animals made the harvests bring crops.

No maths involved -- you've completely made this up.

Science and religion do not mix.

Au contraire. If it weren't for religion science wouldn't exist. Originally science was perceived as a means to get closer to God. Now it's taken a turn towards the dark side and tries to prove God doesn't exist. Science can't exist without religion. As long as there are still doubts, science will continue.

"True Faith adjusts its views based on what's observed. Science is the denial of faith so that science can be preserved." -- Tim Minchin

originally posted by: TheLamb

"True Faith adjusts its views based on what's observed. Science is the denial of faith so that science can be preserved." -- Tim Minchin

You just made that quote up by switching around "science" and "faith". Along with the Vein Jesus revelations, I can only conclude you are a long con troll. Well played, sir!

originally posted by: TheLamb
"True Faith adjusts its views based on what's observed. Science is the denial of faith so that science can be preserved." -- Tim Minchin

So, you just lied. You intentionally misquoted someone's well-known saying to perpetuate your own incorrect assertions. You're despicable.

If you had ANY credibility before, you have none now. Go back to your cave and sit in the darkness and contemplate your "Creator" and read your Bible until your end of days to your heart's content and leave the rest of us out of it.

We do not need people like you in the modern world.

originally posted by: Agree2Disagree
a reply to: Lucid Lunacy

That's all I'm saying....literally ^ that.... DEFEND YOUR OPINION. If you are of the opinion that god does not exist, tell me why you think so....if you are of the opinion that god does exist...tell me why you think so....

A2D

I have no opinion and the evidence points towards evolution. My belief in one or the other doesn't matter. BTW, I'm not an atheist.

originally posted by: noonebutme
a reply to: TheLamb

Your bible is only a collection of stories and tales -- nothing more. It is not a real depiction of anything that actually happened. There is nothing magical or illuminating about the "tale" of Genesis. It was a fabrication, made up by people when they had no idea how the world around them worked.

No one put secret/hidden meanings in there.

You're reaching now, trying to find ANYTHING to help justify your belief and faith. It's really kind of sad.

And who told you it's just stories and tales? Did you come up with that yourself? So you have read Genesis thoroughly have you? Have you cross-referenced the use of words and phrases and not noticed something intriguing? Two hundred years ago, when nobody was educated, the Bible was an easy reference for a quick moral buck. That's all it was used for. So that's what people thought it was all about. Then science came along which didn't have time for what seemed like fairy stories. So the Bible was ditched in favour of physics textbooks. Until now, nobody has thought to review the Bible from a scientific point of view. It's the same way disabled people were treated - until recently few thought to review the human inside; everyone just followed everyone else and treated them like third-class citizens. How would you have treated a disabled person forty years ago? The same way you treat the Bible?

The tales in the Bible are intended for children to give them something of a moral start in Life, just like children's TV. But have you ever watched kids' programmes and seen/heard things that are obviously aimed at parents and actually pretty racy? Peppa Pig is brilliant like that. You are like a parent who doesn't notice the adult bits because they're not really listening. It's a kids' programme. It's not going to have anything of interest. The makers must love you. All that effort to sneak in the odd blue joke and it's missed? What was the point?

originally posted by: TheLamb
And who told you it's just stories and tales? Did you come up with that yourself?

I have read the Bible as well as the Koran out of interest. Both are very similar in their stories. Yet both derive from OTHER tales and fables form times before. Egypt, for example, has tales of virgin births. Same with the Grecian god Dionysus.

Norse stories all have "amazing" accounts of how the world began, much like the bible.

I had an education and I also like to read and discover things. I dont follow something blindly, like an idiot.

So you have read Genesis thoroughly have you?

Yes, it didn't happen. It was a made up story from when humans had no idea how the world worked. It was a tale, nothing more.

Have you cross-referenced the use of words and phrases and not noticed something intriguing? Two hundred years ago, when nobody was educated, the Bible was an easy reference for a quick moral buck. That's all it was used for. So that's what people thought it was all about.

200 years ago there were many people who were educated. "Nobody was educated" is incorrect and a lie - something you're becoming well versed at now.

Then science came along which didn't have time for what seemed like fairy stories. So the Bible was ditched in favour of physics textbooks.

No. Another lie.

Science pre-dates the bible, with early accounts of empirical observations being made in the Babylonian period, then into the Greco-Roman period (500bc). Shall I name drop Pythagoras? How about Plato and Aristotle and their discussions of natural philosophy? Well before the Bible.

Until now, nobody has thought to review the Bible from a scientific point of view. It's the same way disabled people were treated - until recently few thought to review the human inside; everyone just followed everyone else and treated them like third-class citizens. How would you have treated a disabled person forty years ago? The same way you treat the Bible?

Absolutely not. I have respect for a disabled person. I have no respect for the bible - a book of lies, suppression and segregation.

The tales in the Bible are intended for children to give them something of a moral start in Life, just like children's TV.

You equate "morals" to what you learn on television?? And the Bible is the LAST place to take morality from. It's all about killing in Gods name, punishment, retribution and inequality. If that's where you derive your morals from - fine. Leave us out of it.

originally posted by: TheConstruKctionofLight
a reply to: TheLamb

oh dear mental gymnastics at its finest.

Firstly in his equations god M saw the light, then it conviently becomes mc^squared to try to stretch to Einstens
formula.

More to the point how can god have mass and occupy the same space as us, they say its a spirit when we cant see
it.
Sorry epic FAIL

A junior high student can see the breakdown in his logic no maths required,,,

Wheres the OP gone? Missing in action?

I'm here. The Spirit of God is first mentioned so M = 0. Then it just says "God" (or Elohim) so He has taken on mass so that the mechanics laws come into operation. Doesn't Light have mass? If it didn't, E=mc2 wouldn't work. That occupies the same space as us. As X rays it goes through us. You can't see them so are they white man's magic spirits? Why can't God exist in the same way? Mc2 is not mc2. M is God. Genesis says "Let there be light and there was light" "There Light (present = one way) AND There Light (past = another way)". If you were looking at 3x3 grid of sweets with a kid you would point and say "There three across and there three down, how many altogether?" In maths if you say "If A does B in the same time C decides to do D" you would say AB=CD. The verb disappears. God does Light, God does seeing Light. God hasn't changed, Light hasn't changed so GL or Mc2.

The trouble is, you've based your entire work on a complete fiction.

If you're creating a mathematical proof based on something that is NOT proven fact (Genesis) then your entire thesis is completely flawed.

a reply to: GetHyped

If you make the claim, it's you who has to do the legwork.

That's right and I'm positive the claim was made approximately
a hundred and eighty years ago. Against an established paradigm
that reaches back to antiquity and possibly beyond. Whereby
the proof as demanded by science is no longer with us. At least
for the most part. And what proof there is gets scouffed at.
Even tho science can't pin down any kind of an explanation
for the evidence that does exist. But my point is it's science
came along and made the extraordinary claim that all the magic
we see everyday came to be without a magician. All the mechanics
to existence never needed a mechanic, no designer of the obvious
design, no programmer needed for the program, hell books don't
even needed writers either I guess.

According to science sh#t just happens. So move some leg.

how correct i was

too bad my post was removed!

originally posted by: Agree2Disagree

originally posted by: GetHyped

originally posted by: Agree2Disagree

it's not up to me to falsify it...

A2D

If you make the claim, it's you who has to do the legwork.

I didn't make the claim

I'm claiming a default position in which I have no evidence for or against...I'm admitting I have no evidence...how do you prove that? Exactly, you don't.

A2D

There is that thing about God and miracles... they happened 2000 or more years ago... and then nothing again...

Interesting... but at least today we know that all magic is just trickery... there is nothing above skies except rest of world that appears not to circle around our little rock... knowledge that we are part of universe, which for some reason did not manage to get in self-centered sacred text where man is god's image...

But let's look at for what we have evidence - people through ages made many gods to explain natural things, one among first to notice power of controlling and following single god was actually one pharaoh... we see evolution of idea, lots of copy/past from previous mythologies... and to this point in time... we can with high degree of certainty conclude that we are creators of gods, not other way around...

Also, we know that people long time ago believed everything server... and really SAD thing... they used to kill or be killed for those belief... and unfortunately that did not change even today...

It is sad that we did not move far from our other primate relatives...actually we are bit more primitive and bad then they are... just because we are capable to be...

originally posted by: TheLamb

originally posted by: namelesss

originally posted by: TheLamb
Maths Proof: God Created the Universe

More nonsense!
The 'belief infested' must constantly 'defend' and 'feed/validate' and 'spread' his 'belief infection'!
And do this sort of pseudo-intellectual contortions.
'Faith', on the other hand, never needs to resort to this Faithless mental masturbation for support!
'Faith' is Knowledge/experience!
'Belief' in an infection of the imagination, the ego! Vanity.
'Creation' is simply impossible; philosophically, logically, scientifically!
Math is no more than imaginary!

"As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain; and as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality."
-- Albert Einstein
Quoted in J R Newman, The World of Mathematics

Ah, but that's where you're wrong.

Ok, I gotta see this...

Are you of faith? Where did you get your faith from? Your parents? Your pastor? And where did they get theirs from? Did anyone along the line actually do any legwork themselves to achieve this faith? Was it recent? If not, then it's the same as still water - it goes stagnant.

What you are telling me is that you do not know the difference between 'Faith' and 'beliefs'.
'Beliefs' are 'conditional', constantly needing to be 'defended' and 'validated/fed' and 'spread'.
That is because 'beliefs' exist in the schizophrenically dualistic vanity of the imagination/ego!
That is why even the bible instructs never to 'believe' your 'thoughts' and 'feelings' ('feelings' are thoughts)!

'Faith, on the other hand, is an "unconditional" Virtue of unconditional Love!
Unconditional meaning transcendental, not depending of whether your feed it, or spread it or your experiences!

True, unconditional Love is ALWAYS recognized by It's unconditional Virtues; Compassion, Empathy, Sympathy, Gratitude, Humility, Charity (charity is never taking more than your share of anything, ever!), Honesty, Happiness, Faith...
ALWAYS!

Does that please God? No, it disappoints Him.

YOU speak for 'God'?!?
Imagination/vanity?

He wants to see his Creation improve upon itself and the only way you can do that is with creative thought.

So, you are saying that your 'creator' God screwed up and needs YOUR help to make it better?
Isn't that the heights of vanity? Pride?
You say he's Omni-everything, yet he 'created' an imperfect Universe, according to the vanity/judgmentalism of your 'imagination/ego'?
And he needs YOUR help? Our help?
I'm having real problems with this talking for 'God'.
Are YOU God?

Following the same old rules dampens creativity.

There is only one 'rule' for a Xtian, according to Jesus, and that is to Love, unconditionally!
He doesn't need YOU to 'fix the world', he came to 'fix' your Heart!

You should be asking "So who are you God? What are you really like?" and searching for answers that satisfy you. That's what the Bible is for.

And again the arrogance of a 'Xtian'! telling me what I 'should be doing'.
Why not, you say the same thing to your imaginary 'God'! He needs your help, right?

And it's all tooled up for the here and now.

Actually, it's high time for the bible to be trimmed of the crap and left with the valuable.
Maybe 20 pages, at most!
It is nothing at all as you claim.
The new testament, perhaps, but nothing like most Xtians see it.

It is loaded with "scientific" data if you look properly for it with a creative mind.

Oh puh-lese!
What you are saying, is that you imagine this and that, and twist 'logic' until it is no linger recognizable as 'logic' (your vain perverted 'creativity'), to feed to your ever voracious 'belief infection'!

You can get to know God in more tangible forms.

Imaginary forms = idolatry?
All imagination.
You 'believe/think/imagine' a 'God', you have concepts ABOUT your imaginary God.
Knowledge = actual experience of God, union, mystical Oneness!
THAT is Knowledge, reading tales (in whatever book) "about" the unconditional, the transcendental, that which cannot be conceived, is all vanity, tales 'about' rather than 'Knowledge of' are the difference between conditional beliefs, and unconditional Faith!

Faith;

"Do what you know to be right, say what you know to be true, and leave with faith and patience the consequences to god!" - F.W. Robertson

This ^ is the essence of 'Faith'/Love! Robertson calls Us 'God', but call Us whatever works for you; the Universe, Nature, Tao, Truth, Consciousness, Buddha, 'Self!'!, The Great Balloon Butted Big Bellied Bimbo in the Sky... whatever..., they all refer to the same One Reality, the same One Truth!
We Are All
One Omni- 'Self!'!

Prove that Creation is impossible so that I'm satisfied. Oh hang on, that would require breaking some rules and being a little creative.

kinda rooky-ish 4 pages....except for my post on 2.....
math.......math of God is the title.....cmon now here...!!!
bible debunkers read up....the math probability.......now we're talking math men.....
the prophecy probability of just some simple prophecies......comes out to 10 to the 42 power....there is no room in the universe for the that number to be written out..........no location for it to exist.....therefore one should straiten up and fly right.....( I spell how I feel at the moment....he he )

Just thought I'd add this.

The Universe ends this year and then resets itself. The Bible is internally consistent over several thousand years from Genesis to Daniel. A lot of thought went into it.

originally posted by: TheLamb
Just thought I'd add this.

The Universe ends this year and then resets itself. The Bible is internally consistent over several thousand years from Genesis to Daniel. A lot of thought went into it.

Right,

and in two and half month number on picture will say 2016 - stupid mistake while calculating first time...

We all have seen this many times over...

originally posted by: randyvs
a reply to: GetHyped

If you make the claim, it's you who has to do the legwork.

That's right and I'm positive the claim was made approximately
a hundred and eighty years ago. Against an established paradigm
that reaches back to antiquity and possibly beyond. Whereby
the proof as demanded by science is no longer with us. At least
for the most part. And what proof there is gets scouffed at.
Even tho science can't pin down any kind of an explanation
for the evidence that does exist. But my point is it's science
came along and made the extraordinary claim that all the magic
we see everyday came to be without a magician. All the mechanics
to existence never needed a mechanic, no designer of the obvious
design, no programmer needed for the program, hell books don't
even needed writers either I guess.

According to science sh#t just happens. So move some leg.

If we ever need a better understanding, we can always revisit one of your threads.

originally posted by: Agree2Disagree
Barcs, you know as well as I do, if you take a slow meander through the countless threads here on ATS, the vast majority of atheists have said "there is no God" somewhere...just as the people on the other side say it as an absolute positive...while a small portion of us like to stay in the middle and say that while both possibilities are NOT equal, they both are possible.....

I'm a frequent reader of this section, and while I'm sure it's been said, it isn't the norm. Most people simply say that they do not believe. They don't create threads titled, "Mathematical proof that there is no god!!!", or "Atheism is the ONLY LOGICAL POSSIBILITY", or "Scientific evidence that proves no god!"

The majority of threads here assert their religious views as fact or claim that science is wrong. I never see this from the other side. Sure every now and then you get an anti religious thread, but as far as people saying atheism is a proven fact, I just don't see it. While atheism IS the logical default since there is no evidence in favor of a creator or deity, it isn't proven fact.

originally posted by: TheLamb
Au contraire. If it weren't for religion science wouldn't exist. Originally science was perceived as a means to get closer to God. Now it's taken a turn towards the dark side and tries to prove God doesn't exist. Science can't exist without religion. As long as there are still doubts, science will continue.

No offense, but just because religious folks originally started using science, doesn't mean it wouldn't exist without it. Whether people believe in god, religion or neither, humans are still very inquisitive and want to know how things work. This inherent desire to solve the mystery is what drives science.

Plus, people HAD to describe science as "the work of god" or they would have been labeled heretics and executed in most cases. Science is merely the method folks use to discover facts. Religion is not required, the world just happened to be under its power grip for thousands of years and people were told not to question it.