The Migrant Crisis - Welcome to Karma Europe.

Cause and Effect. You would think some of our 'great leaders' who are so smart and believe they have the answers to everything, would have foreseen some of the chaos being created. Did they expect people to sit in rubble and wait to die?

Now we must face the facts that our government has ruined entire countries, and who knows if and when humpty-dumpty can be put back together again. The ownership is indeed ours.

Xenophobia definition, an unreasonable fear or hatred of foreigners or strangers or of that which is foreign or strange. This is another word that is used far too frequently by certain people in this country, as well as racist. Again, to shout down any debate. I don't have an unreasonable fear or hatred of foreigners. I've worked in many countries in my younger days and have a wide group of friends from different countries and cultures. I do have a fear of radicalised muslims and I do dislike intensely certain elements of the religion Islam which teaches fear or hatred of anyone other than that religion!

I don't think it is an unreasonable fear when I say I am concerned that a sizeable number of these migrants are in fact ISIS terrorists. ISIS themselves released a video at the beginning of the year saying they would send thousands over the Mediterranean. David Cameron himself has been warned that 2 out of every 100 Syrian refugees are probably ISIS terrorists. So am I unreasonable when I see 80% young, fit, men from that religion I don't think so.

As far as Karma. I didn't want a war in Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan. I was one of over a million who marched in London against labour's policy to go into Iraq because of weapons of mass destruction. Although there were a million it didn't make a scrap of difference. This argument also doesn't fully justify the migration crisis either. Figures released last month showed that about 10% were Syrian refugees. There are many other nationalities migrating who aren't coming from countries where the West have intervened. Is that Europe's problem then? I'm sorry with regards to Syria even how is that the West's fault. How is it the West's fault that Assad is cruel to his own people, that there are fights between different religious groups. It is a cop out to blame everything on the West. Why don't a lot of these people go to other muslim countries which are much nearer.

I don't have a problem with anyone who wants to come to our country to integrate and live within the laws of this country and the values. The problem is a lot come here and then want to change everything about the Country. I'm sick to death of being told this is offensive and that is offensive. If people don't want to be offended then surely they would be better migrating to Countries that have the same values as themselves. There is something radically wrong when as a Country you are forbidden from flying your own flag as it is seen as racist, but then where it is OK for someone to walk down a London street with a flag of ISIS wrapped round their shoulders.

I don't believe that most normal civilians want wars so to say its Karma for them is ridiculous. The problem is governments having complete disregard for their actions and how it may affect the civilians of that Country.

Just a thought, everyone says its a humanitarian crisis, but i never seen anyone going to help them, nobody sending money, instead they just morally preen themselves with the line of look at how much of a wonderful human being I am, the rest of you are scum for not believing the same. Also believing that if people would've bitched instead of bitching on FB is a farce, did people not protest the Iraq War? What good came of that? Didn't we question 9/11? Didn't we occupy some crap?

Just pats on the back.

a reply to: tothetenthpower

Xenophobia it is not. It is just a matter of fact. Having 1.5 million today and up to 7 million when their relatives arrive - we talk about a nation. If you compare to sizes of German states, such as Hessen or Bavaria, the 7 million figure easily qualifies for a new state. And this state is Islamic - not Chrisitian, just to state the matter of fact.

Xenophobia is in this case to look the other way. To be so afraid, to not be able to anymore accept reality.

a reply to: deckdel

I'm not asking everybody to look away, nor am I asking everybody to accept migrants with open arms.

At least not until the ME countries have done their part to accept their fair share.

That's not really what my rant was about, it was mostly about the masses being sucked into this propaganda sphere that they somehow don't have a part to play in the current crisis.

~Tenth

Karma?Yeah, no.Karma is non-existent BS .

Europe is being flooded with migrants due to the migrants own countrymen beheading, raping, stoning and killing the hell out of each other. Their is no cosmic twist of fate involved, no sweet poetic turn of the screw, no; this is barbarians being barbarians---just as they always have been---and propagandized up a bit by leftist idiocy.

And while karma is just silliness, blowback and the motion of the pendulum swing is certainly not. Europe will only take so much. Then , I imagine, things will indeed light up.

Long story short, since chickens and roosts were mentioned earlier in this thread, I wouldn't count those tasty birds before they hatch. This is not going to end Europe by any means. It might, though, eventually end the gagging( and needless) self guilt that plaques that continent.

One can only hope.

a reply to: tothetenthpower

Seeing as the USA has led most these action I hope some of the # splashes back on you guys too.

For a country that preaches personal responsibility I dont see many American on here willing to take responsibility for there part of the mess they created either. Most seem to be just as or more xenophobic and just want to build a wall to hide behind.....literally.

Not all are qualified as a refugee and not all European countries are member of NATO. EU itself is a failure and to blame on this chaos.
In my country we have our borders flooding and we are high in North, and there are records that "refugees" who entered in here last few week are about 75% from Iraq, 15 % from Afganistan, 2-3 % Syrians.

There is something else going on. Syrians do not get the help they need but others are taking advantage of their situation.

Estonian press interview

originally posted by: tothetenthpower
That's not really what my rant was about, it was mostly about the masses being sucked into this propaganda sphere that they somehow don't have a part to play in the current crisis.

Nothing to do with me, I was at the anti-war protest in London 2003 with a good million or so other people.
Previously I protested in 2001 against invading Afghanistan, and I've joined smaller protests 4 times since in London over the years.
I've sent anti war letters to Tony Blair, Gordon Brown, and David Cameron.
I have never voted Labour or Conservative, and I've made monthly donations to Doctors without borders (Médecins Sans Frontières) for over a decade.

Nope, I'm not shouldering any guilt, I've done everything legal in my power to discourage the UK governments (which I didn't vote for) from using military force.

Do I feel sorry for people in crisis, of course I do.
Am I glad that we have the English Channel separating the UK from mainland Europe, yes.
Am I glad that the UK retains control of it's border at France, definitely.
...but personal responsibility for events in the Middle East, nothing , nada, zero.

originally posted by: tothetenthpower


The people of Europe, have supported their politicians long standing traditions ( along with the west + NATO in general) of allowing the destruction of entire countries.

Now those residents need new places to stay, because we left them no other option. Considering they've been hearing for DECADES about how wonderful life is in Europe and the West by comparison, isn't it any wonder they would want to move there?

After WW 2 (70 years ago) London and other cities and large parts of Germany

were flattened through the bombing.

Did the British or the Germans exodus their country in droves? No they rebuilt

their countries.


So they do have an option .... rebuild their own countries, which previously

were not exactly happy places anyway under their dictators, who had ruled

with a rod of iron and gassed swathes of their own people.

In the case of Syria and Afghanistan they are killing their own people ......

different sects of their same religions?

See how well 'exporting democracy' has gone for you?

Well it doesn't seem to have done India much harm?

And now that your chickens are coming home to roost, now you have a problem as citizens? Oh it wasn't a problem when they were being bombed 4 thousand miles away right? Your pretty European country side wasn't showing the effects, so who cares right?

How about you look square in the mirror and blame yourselves for what occurred there and what's occurring now. If any of you had stood up in greater numbers in real life instead of doing it on FB whenever your politicians sent your sons and daughters to die maybe you would not have this mess.

Remind me which nationality it was that has recently bombed/destroyed

beyond rubble World Heritage sites in Syria that have stood for centuries ....

just for the hell of it!!!

a reply to: tothetenthpowerOut of curiousity what country are you from? You seem to be giving it out that Europe is to blame for the disarray in middle eastern countries but were the USA not the country who led the coalition? I don't see many Syrian refugeess trying to seek asylum there (I am not saying they are not going through the legal channels). I don't think for one moment that USA would allow 1.5 million muslim migrants to just enter their country. If they did I think there would be uproar (quite rightly) from its citizens.

Another thing I have noticed you have done what a lot of people tend to do when debating this subject, you've resorted to the usual stereotypical name calling "xeonophobic". It seems to have become the in-word for people to use to shout down any debate. What you haven't said is what your feelings are on 1.5 million refugees entering Europe illegally. How many do you think Europe should take to be forgiven for their sins of forming a coalition with USA/Australia. Should some of the other countries who were involved with the coalition not then share some of the burden? How many would you think was enough considering infrastructure and social cohesion. Do you not believe it would be better for muslim migrants to go to muslim countries and for Christian refugees to come to Europe which is predominantly Christian? Why do you think Saudi Arabia haven't taken any? If they are in fact refugees why are they so choosy about which Countries they go to? If they are looking for safety surely they would be happy in whichever country they are offered as long at it is safe? Why are some saying they don't want the food they are being offered they just want the money? Do you think that gives a clue that they may be economic migrants and then don't you think it is terrible that they are spoiling the chances of genuine refugees who are escaping persecution. Why are a lot coming from countries where there are no conflicts and why then does Europe owe them anything? Just a few questions I would really like you to answer because it seems to be something I never get an answer to from the people who say let them all in. They just tend to start with name calling and close the debate down without actually saying what they would do. Finally, what are your thoughts about ISIS saying they would infiltrate refugees and bring holy war to Europe and fly a flag over Rome. Do you not think that is alarming for Europe or is it just as I suspect that it doesn't affect you because you are not living here and don't really have to worry about it because its not on your doorstep. I have a feeling you are a person, like the people you are calling, who is from a counry who has gone into other lands and if you are not then forgive me but you sound sanctimonious when I don't feel you have a right to be.

a reply to: tothetenthpower

These people (if you can call them that) (I'm talking about ISIS and the other Groups) are like children in a playground who can't get their own way. They need to grow up, its got nothing to do with us in the West or in Europe, nothing at all. Its their demented minds and little boy attitude which has caused this mess.

So, stop trying to blame us for their behaviour.

Anyway I think 'Syria' although will be pretty much bombed out, will be pit back together again. It wont be long now till ISIS die off. Hopefully any who made it across the MED will also be found out before they start their playground antics over here.

a reply to: tothetenthpower

The people of Europe, have supported their politicians long standing traditions ( along with the west + NATO in general) of allowing the destruction of entire countries.

No, anymore than your average pumpkin pie-eating American "supported" his government's many military adventures. That's Western democracy for you.

And I don't support the constant third world invasion of my living space engineered by these dictators either. I owe these people jack sh!t.

How does that make me a bad person?

edit on 5.10.2015 by CJCrawley because: (no reason given)

a reply to: pheonix358

the war mongering asshats sitting on the top of the money pyramid

I am stealing this phrase. Good stuff.

a reply to: tothetenthpower

No, anymore than your average pumpkin pie-eating American "supported" his government's many military adventures. That's Western democracy for you.

And I don't support the constant third world invasion of my living space engineered by these dictators either. I owe these people jack sh!t.

How does that make me a bad person?

a reply to: crazyewok

For a country that preaches personal responsibility I dont see many American on here willing to take responsibility for there part of the mess they created either.

What mess? We are the great liberators - can we help it if some people don't know how to reconstitute their destroyed civilizations when we pick up our toys and go home?

________________________________________

Some of us will take responsibility for what we've done crazyewok - even if it was done in our name only. Many of us had wanted to avoid all of it in the first place - it's crazy

But, honestly - what can be done about any of it? Many Americans are so nationalistic that it really is more about us before them - and retribution. I was having a conversation about the whole mess recently with an acquaintance - a customer where I work. I was called a traitor because I didn't believe we should have gone into Iraq

I want to lay this out very carefully, just in case somebody might think I'm omitting part of the story...

This gentleman asked me if I supported the war - not something I would have ever brought up myself with somebody I don't know that well

I said no

He called me anti-American - and a traitor to my country

All of this came after I had commented on the refugee situation - and how it was probably only going to get worse. He responded with an anti-Muslim diatribe

This is my country now - you are either on one side - or the other

Nailed it, tothetenthpower

A refuge running from war goes to the first country he feels safe... He doesn't go into a European road trip demanding countries in-between to open their borders and let people with no papers at all and a suspicious background roam freely in their country.
90% of the supposed refuges in Finland are young and able males that could have stayed to fight for their country...
But instead they fight each other and the authorities, once they stepped on European ground,
IF this is not just opportunism then it is a well played methodical created crisis to add to Europe's already bad situation,
meaning, someone has an agenda.

Syria is in this situation 7 years now, why only now they came in millions, how can this not be organized?

As for xenophobia, they are even more xenophobic of the western societies than we are with them.
They hate our clothes , our societies, our religions, our women, our shows, our morals, our traditions, and soon enough they will demand change with violent protests once again.
They only love the immigrant benefits and welfare that Europe provides

If you blame the people of Eu for the acts of their Gov/s,
you should also blame these ''refuges'' and migrants for making their own countries into sh!t in the first place.
We should also blame them for isis, terrorists, rebels, and backing up the western agenda by oppossing Assad's regime during a civil war with the islamic state.

So where is their karma? having a much better life and opportunities?
Yet we should feel guilty as Eu citizens for their mess?

Sorry you haven't conviced me at all

originally posted by: tothetenthpower
How about you quit exporting democracy for a bit, and focus on a little self reflection, eat your ego for breakfast and deal with your own problems for once.

I'll say it once and I'll say it again:

You are in this situation either because you agreed with the actions taken by your governments, or you didn't do enough as a group to stop them.

I am having very calm and rational conversations with people over this, trying to do my bit to counter the hysteria and irrational fear. This is our chance to give back, put something in for a change, and there are other positives too, a chance to set a better example, to put more walk in our talk. The alternative is that we have learnt nothing from 9/11, and we continue to allow our governments to take actions which make us legitimate targets. We are not removed from the actions of our governments, we are entirely culpable especially if we know those systems are corrupt and we sit back in complaceny. We are killing men, women and children with impunity because of our economic interests in those regions not because they are a threat to our lives, just because they are threat to the future security of our current standard of living. Who has the most to lose in this scenario?

Anyway, I could, and have, gone on and on and on about this. When I can take no more of the histrionics I go and find a darkened room, and sing along with this.

www.youtube.com...

It doesn't make any of the world's problems go away, but it does perk me up and remind me of the value of my sense of humour.