Most homosexuality is a choice

originally posted by: intrepid


So your personal opinion then, right? Quite frankly how do you know?

How do I know that only a small percentage of people are actually homosexual? From experience and from looking at the animal kingdom.

If science finds that homosexuality is a genetic abnormality why would you NOT want to give people the ability to be straight if that was THEIR CHOICE. I have read many place (even in this very thread) that many people that are gay would prefer to be straight, but they can't change their preference. What if science makes that possible? Why would that not be an option for some people?

I don't see anything judgmental or wrong with my thinking in fact I think it is quite logical that it would be great to offer people choices if they wanted to change. I am not suggesting we force anyone to change.

Okay, IF science finds this, would you be okay if this breakthrough in genetics were to be available to people to be gay?
Take the blue pill and you're a 100% all American straight male! Take the pink pill and you're in for a life of same sex debauchery.
That's a choice.

a reply to: Skyfloating

PLEASE can we stop this level of ignorance?

The VAST majority of gay people go through a very long stage in their life wishing and willing themselves to be straight, so they don't have to put up with the cr*p society throws at them, even in places where it is socially more accepted.

a reply to: Skyfloating

Well... I guess that makes you a bit of a Darwin then?

Nothing quite like studying gaiety in mammals over the course of history and beyond. One can come to some epiphany or three.

Hell, one only needs to dig deep into all the threads ATS has on the subject itself to get a good overview. I mean, it's been done to death on here. But going back into history (i.e. Greek) as well as studying nature itself... well, that's a genuine step up.

Can't wait to read your treatise on the subject. Are you planning on a peer reviewed paper or just self-publishing?

Most heterosexual choose to be heterosexual...therefor they are originally gay!

Oh ok... jk aside.

Simple question should clear it up. Ask yourself this If you are a straight man...

"Did i choose to like girls when i was in my teen? or they suddenly became attractive?"

im sure most would say they were not TAUGHT to like girls but something inside them made them like girls.

Same goes for gay men and women.

originally posted by: CranialSponge
a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

To be honest, I'm a tad bit jealous of bisexuals... they get the best of both worlds, dammit.

You folks get to enjoy the benefits of having way more choices in life when it comes to partnering up with a significant other !

Me too!

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

and older white women (40+)

How YOU doin?








Kidding... I gotta man!

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
I believe there are some who choose to be "gay" for attention, mainly on the female side, but in general homosexuality is not a choice, I think it has something to do with how the baby forms in the womb. One theory suggests too much estrogen or testosterone being present crosses the wires so to speak. I think that's the theory that makes the most sense personally.

I completely agree with you.

a reply to: Kali74

Hehe.

He's a lucky fella.

originally posted by: Skyfloating

originally posted by: intrepid


So your personal opinion then, right? Quite frankly how do you know?

How do I know that only a small percentage of people are actually homosexual? From experience and from looking at the animal kingdom.

There is a vast difference from a small percentage of people being homosexuals (which 99% of people know that anyways)...

To your assertion in the OP that only a small percent of that small percentage do not choose such.


Which experience taught you the latter?

Do any of you actually read your own replies? The op wasn't expressing malice nor made any statements of fact that I saw. I saw an opinion that didn't seem to express any ill will. Yet not 2 posts in I see.....awww gawd another gay bashing thread...... then it's been repeated over and over. Wtf people one sentence is I love diversity and the next is slinging a slur because some expressed an idea you don't feel is right. Who cares if people have been bashing gays in other threads or on social media judge each one by their merit. I stayed away from ats quite a while and it's this ignorant bs being slung about at the op is exactly why. If you love diversity then get the sand out your panties and start accepting people's thoughts when presented in a manner that isn't showing a disdain for the topic. Ffs you guys/gals are just acting like whiny pricks.

a reply to: Skyfloating

The question is what extent do nature, nurture and our experiences in adulthood drive us to explore the vast spectrum of sexual behaviors human beings enjoy.

Is homosexuality a choice? Yes and no, but mostly no.

The issue lies in the question: "How much say do we have over who we are attracted to?"

As a straight person I didn't decide to be straight, I didn't decide to go through puberty and into adulthood attracted to women. Calling it a choice in that context simply makes no sense. At the same time some people like to experiment, studies typically show women have a greater chance of being bi or developing bisexual tendencies. Human attraction is not something we have complete conscious control over, in fact from what I've seen, experienced and researched who we are attracted to is largely outside of our control.

I will draw a slight parallel with religious belief. Some people say belief is just a choice, as if it's like what kind of breakfast cereal you want to eat. But belief is often not a choice, it's the result of becoming convinced and people can become convinced of things without putting conscious effort into forcing themselves to make that choice. In many ways sexuality is far far LESS of a choice than belief because we are compelled by our biology to want sex, be that with the opposite, same or both sexes.

I can understand, entirely, why people would get angry when someone says its a choice. Human attraction is not a choice in the way the word is usually used. Here's another example - women (and men) who return to an abusive lover. How much sense would it make to ask "Why did she choose to fall in love with him?" chances are there wasn't a point in the relationship where she said to herself, "I choose to love this guy" as if it was a simple binary choice. In the same way it doesn't make sense to say someone just goes "I think I'm gonna be gay for a while".

Prior to marriage I could also increase or decrease sexual and romantic desire for certain types of people at will.

Congratulations but I don't think many people can relate to that experience. Oh sure to an extent human beings can regulate their desire but to simply flip a switch, turn on a dime, as you describe, is something I don't think most people can relate to. At any rate there is a big difference between "I can dull my own sexual desire" and "other people should be able to dull their own desire to avoid being gay" - not that you said that. Also you're talking mainly about your level of desire, not about the form your desires took/ who they were directed at. At no point during your time dulling your desire were you no longer attracted to the opposite sex, merely because you developed some mental immunity to keep your eyes from wandering.

As I said above I do think that choice enters into it on some level because, as you mention, people can make choices to repress their desire... but I think nature has far more to do with it than nurture for numerous reasons. One such reason is that homosexuality occurs in animals that most people would not ascribe the idea of making a conscious choice to such as the famous gay penguins at the Central Park Zoo. It doesn't really fit to say they made a "choice" to be gay, selecting a mate in the animal kingdom doesn't really involve choice in the sense we humans use the word. We've observed homosexuality in dozens of species and chances are in exists in thousands of species that we wouldn't say make a "choice" regarding their desire or who they mate with.

Now obviously that doesn't mean for humans choice isn't a factor but where you seem to think its mostly choice with a biological factor possibly mixed in (let's say 80% nurture/choice 20% nature) I'd put it the opposite (80% nature 20% choice/nurture). So from where I stand on it it's not honest to say its a choice for most gay people but at the same time not every gay or bisexual person should claim to be born that way. From your anecdote, others I've heard and discussions with gay friends and family I don't think every gay person claims to have been born that way anyway.

originally posted by: Skyfloating
I believe that most homosexuality is a choice

You would have to 'believe' it, because all the evidence, all the intelligent people, all the science, all the philosophy amounts to a huge pile of evidence that highlights your 'belief' as ignorance and hateful phobia!
Bye the bye, science has found that homophobia, like yours, is a mental illness!
But 'beliefs' (obviously) are not rational or chosen, you are infected with them!
Sans your irrational, emotional, ignorant 'belief infection, you have no argument at all!

I totally disagree with this OP.

The desire determines the choice not the other way around

Certainly sex has a degree of fluidity but the actual inner sexual desire for a man or woman is NOT a choice.

One can have sex with a dog but that doesn’t mean they like it!

What one likes in terms of what they inwardly desire determines whether their gay or not and that CAN’T be a choice.

ONLY if one already has a degree of a desire to have sex with the same sex can they even be bi-sexual

It’s not based on choice it’s based on desire.

For example, one can’t say I want to like woman’s breasts make the choice to like them over lips even though inwardly one doesn’t have such a desire....

Everything in sex is determined by desire not intellectual choice


You didn’t choose to like meat over fish

a reply to: Skyfloating

Prove it.

Go gay for a week and report back to us how it went.

It's not 'one size fits all' kind of thing. I'm sure some choose, though I'm sure some don't choose.

I don't have statistics, numbers or any 'official ruling' on it, just many, many friends in the LGBT community...it's discussed openly...it's a mish-mash at best.

I'm sure someone will take offense to the OPs post, and I'm sure someone will take offense to my post - but to those who do, keep in mind these are OPINIONS and should be treated as such.

Your opinion doesn't matter any more than the OPs, mine or yours...we are all human beings. Act like it.

From the replies it's clear you hit a nerve. One thing global warming threads and homo/trans threads have in common: both are filled with members trying to silence any honest discussion.

The crux of the matter is no one else can determine if a person is born gay. Masculinity and femininity change over the course of a person's life, so those aren't accurate indicators during childhood. Even if a person really believes he or she was gay from the get-go, that does not necessarily make it true. It's easy to see how human psychology complicates these things. As they say, the brain is the biggest erogenous zone.

Personal observations and experiences with homosexuals have also led me to believe it is a choice for most people. Of course that choice is influenced by all sorts of environmental and psychological factors. I think it is a subconscious choice, more often than not.

I've known unattractive men and women who turned to homosexuality/bisexuality seemingly out of nowhere. These people were sexually frustrated and at the age when nothing is concrete. Perhaps they made the choice to 'try their luck' with the same sex. Better than going solo, right?

The only open homosexual in my high school was a super-effeminate guy who was raised by sisters and a single mom. This dude was too busy trying to emulate his sisters to think about attracting a woman. But despite his proud proclamations of homosexuality, he never seemed interested in men either. Is it not possible that by the time he reached puberty he thought he more resembled a woman than a man? That he was just playing the only role he knew how to play, and felt overwhelmed by the idea of acting like a typical male?

An older coworker once told me she was held against her will for a week and raped in her ex-husband's basement. She said this incident drove her to homosexuality. Later I learned that she was actually bisexual, but would only have causal sex with men. Might she have been meeting her emotional needs through lesbian relationships, because she could not trust men?

What I see in all of these cases is a human being suffering emotional pain. Pain from feeling inadequate, from feeling different, from feeling alone. Everybody needs love, and the mind will go to great lengths to find it.

Mostly thinking out loud here. That's the point in ATS, so anyone who gets their britches in a bunch over what I've said can go console themselves quietly in a corner.

originally posted by: markosity1973
a reply to: Skyfloating

Prove it.

Go gay for a week and report back to us how it went.

It's not uncommon for convicts to do just that in prison. Sometimes for years. Something about walking through that gate has a strange effect on sexuality...

originally posted by: OpenMindedRealist

originally posted by: markosity1973
a reply to: Skyfloating

Prove it.

Go gay for a week and report back to us how it went.

It's not uncommon for convicts to do just that in prison. Sometimes for years. Something about walking through that gate has a strange effect on sexuality...

A same sex sexual act is just that.

It does not make a person homosexual.

I'm trying to figure out why it matters. I'm about 99% sure it's not a choice, but to whom does that matter? Oh right, the religious right so they can convince themselves they can convert their son/daughter when they "turn" gay; so they can condemn homosexuals for making a "bad choice"; so they know to protect their sons/daughters from the "gay agenda". That's right.