Lizardman and his Flying Machine

This is a pretty cool find. Never seen that type of depiction from that part of the world.

originally posted by: Kantzveldt
a reply to: Marduk

We interrupt this pointless squabble to bring you breaking news of a comet that some see as heralding the return of Quetzalcoatl, the tail separated into three tails , it was like a tongue or sheet of fire, showering sparks like a flame...

An incence burner from Teotihuacan and a quote from a book talking about something else aren't doing your case any favours

I asked you where the flames were on the double whistle
Where are the flames on the double whistle ?

a reply to: Marduk

It was just a suggestion that the end of the tail perhaps resembled flames, but really i was only joking there, in terms of proper context here is a figurine of what is probably a Priest of Quetzlcoatl from Vera Cruz, you see the elements of his cult the lizard totem and the bird mask which is set off my the same circular disc seen in the whistles were he is seen seated upon it, there is the obvious association both with flying and whistling...



As expected the second whistle example was also from Vera Cruz sold here and listed as a double flute.



Here's another example from the same source which they listed as a double flute with a supernatural iguana upon it;



Clearly what the Lizard is mounted upon isn't any sort of boat and relates to his flying abilities and associated sound, the basic overall form resembles that of the creatures that would glide across the jungle canopy.

I'm at a loss as to say if this is a craftsman's fanciful interpretation of Q's description from a priest, or something he's seen.

With the folk as primitive as they were back then, I can refer to the 'cargo cults' from WW2 Pacific...

Lets also not forget the 'delta aircraft' looking things found in S.A. as well...

If its just a sculpture based on one's imagination, its beautiful work nonetheless

a reply to: HomerinNC

Primitive? I don't think so.

In addition to their influence with contemporaneous Mesoamerican cultures, as the first civilization in Mesoamerica, the Olmecs are credited, or speculatively credited, with many "firsts", including the bloodletting and perhaps human sacrifice, writing and epigraphy, and the invention of zero and the Mesoamerican calendar, and the Mesoamerican ballgame, as well as perhaps the compass.[51] Some researchers, including artist and art historian Miguel Covarrubias, even postulate that the Olmecs formulated the forerunners of many of the later Mesoamerican deities

en.wikipedia.org...

The Olmecs are a great mystery, quite the contrary to the usual primitives we've had in Europe back then.

Thanks for sharing, Kantzveldt!

a reply to: Kantzveldt

Clearly what the Lizard is mounted upon isn't any sort of boat and relates to his flying abilities and associated sound, the basic overall form resembles that of the creatures that would glide across the jungle canopy

Clearly.....

Wow it is so clear you talked me into it.....

Although, the 2 boards in between the big platform couldn't be tree branches with the platform built in the jungle trees?

Why does ATS always assume flying aliens when that is CLEARLY not what this artifact is portraying?

So this "flying machine" you are claiming, can you show me anyway possible it would be able to fly? AT ALL?? It is a flat landing with 2 boards in between.....To sit on sure, but to fly? Was it positioned in the trees and someone pushed him to glide down? Or wait, they filled the no engine "flying machine" up at the Texaco station....I knew there was some way possible...

a reply to: Chrisfishenstein

Why does ATS always assume flying aliens when that is CLEARLY not what this artifact is portraying?

Well... it obviously can't swim, does it? Platform on a tree... monkey business?

Apeship, full banana please!

originally posted by: PublicOpinion
a reply to: Chrisfishenstein

Why does ATS always assume flying aliens when that is CLEARLY not what this artifact is portraying?

Well... it obviously can't swim, does it? Platform on a tree... monkey business?

Apeship, full banana please!

What can't swim? The guy with the lizard head over his own or the platform with boards under it? I would bet money that if we built one I could get that effer to float on the river before you would get it to fly!

"And the serpent hath been subtile above every beast of the field which Jehovah God hath made"

and after the fall it becomes cursed and forced to the ground:

"Because thou hast done this, cursed [art] thou... on thy belly dost thou go, and dust thou dost eat, all days of thy life;"

"and the great dragon was cast forth -- the old serpent, who is called `Devil,' and `the Adversary,' who is leading astray the whole world -- he was cast forth to the earth, and his messengers were cast forth with him."

good find.

Above in that context does not mean in the air...the serpent of genesis was an earthly creature.

a reply to: cooperton

originally posted by: raymundoko
Above in that context does not mean in the air...the serpent of genesis was an earthly creature.

a reply to: cooperton

Nor does the picture(s) posted.....To me, or a few others here.....

Can't you answer anything with dignity? A little manners will get you a long way.

originally posted by: Chrisfishenstein
Why does ATS always assume flying aliens when that is CLEARLY not what this artifact is portraying?

Actually, you know just as much as we do. You saying this 'clearly' is something, means literally nothing.

originally posted by: angryhulk

originally posted by: Chrisfishenstein
Why does ATS always assume flying aliens when that is CLEARLY not what this artifact is portraying?

Actually, you know just as much as we do. You saying this 'clearly' is something, means literally nothing.

How about next time come as Bruce and not Hulk....

You have absolutely zero context to in which I replied to that post...

The "lizard-man" in the original post could actually be a bird-man. Because if you look at it closely, it has a beak with a decoration on top. Before it went extinct, there was a casowary-like species living in South America. (And perhaps with the same reputation as the bird from New Zealand/Australia.) Wouldn't be that surprising if that currently extinct species lived in Central America as well. Other than that, it could be a stylized version of a bird such as a king vulture, which also has a fairly large beak decoration.

--edit--
Red Legged Serima may also be what this is a anthropocized and stylized depiction of. It's a cousin to the extinct species which was larger.

originally posted by: angryhulk

originally posted by: Chrisfishenstein
Why does ATS always assume flying aliens when that is CLEARLY not what this artifact is portraying?

Actually, you know just as much as we do. You saying this 'clearly' is something, means literally nothing.

Its a whistle, not a flying machine, unless you are trying to claim that Alien ships looked like whistles
Clearly, you do not understand Mesoamerican culture

I like my teabagging carving theory better. Ball court was a tough game.

a reply to: Marduk

a reply to: Kantzveldt

The flutes look almost like an animal from the front, two eyes, two nostrils. Also, note the 'wing-like' appendages on either side. (If that is a fair interpretation, then I wonder if it might be a harkening to the thunderbirds, mythological creatures possibly inspired by teratorns, giant birds who became extinct roughly around 10,000 years ago.)

I'd love to hear the low-down on this piece; as the archaeologists see it, what is their interpretation of the symbolism? Particularly about the humanoid figure laying on its back in front of the 'lizard man', and, also about the symbols on the semi-circles on either side of the lizard man. I think knowledge on these points would encourage a better understanding of the piece....

The lizard man could be Quetzalcoatl....
Although, the Remojadas figurines kinda have me thinking that the lizard man may just be an hunter, and the feathery detail coming out of the tail might only refer to the feathered serpent association with Quetzalcoatl.
The humanoid figure laying on its back could very well be one of the Remojadas 'Sonrientes', or Smiling Faces.
I think it is.

I read an interesting point to ponder, when looking into another artifact, Monument 19 at La Venta, an old Olmec piece...
Notice the hands of these figurines. Sometimes the hands are normal, left, right, but some figurines have two left or two right hands. The possible meaning is that of 'givers', those with two right hands, and 'receivers', those with two left hands. Those with normal left, right, could be thought of as holding balance, both giving and receiving.

Anyways, I don't think its a boat (could be). I think it could refer to giant, ancient birds, remembered in their mythology. The whistles could symbolize the wind as well as the sounds of these birds.
Like I said, I'd really like to understand the symbolism involved here.

PS
Kantzveldt, you don't by chance have any extra, awesome info on the Olmec piece I mentioned, Monument 19? Thinking of getting it tattooed. The one thing no one talks about (I haven't read about) are the birds on either side of a box above the figures head. I'd love to have more understanding of that piece...
Peace
Jim

a reply to: Jimjolnir

Yes i also think they are the little happy people, the figures seen on the front, which is actually what i was researching when i came across the pieces in connection to the Teotihuacan host figurines, i was trying to figure if the reason they were happy all the time was because they were robots, they are closely related to puppetry.



The creation of artificial intelligence in the ancient world intrigues me, in Sumeria the creation of the cultic statues of the Gods none of which have ever been found was a very involved affair, the Gods of carpentry, lapidary and metal working would first fashion the creation which at that point was recognized as inanimate and then the process began of generating life within it, so that it became a living construct.



The consideration then was whether robotics were part of the Quetzcoatl package deal, the host figurines are found within the pyramid tunnels and tombs of the pyramid at Teotihuacan and seem to have acted in a similar manner to Egyptian shabti figurines, immortal helpers in the afterlife as long as their batteries don't run out, it's a question of what lay behind the fantastical traditions.

Monument 19 at La Venta i'm sure it's all been said about that...