Israeli comments of ‘Nagasaki and Hiroshima’ as model for dealing with Iran

Moshe Ya'alon, Israel's Defense Minister, spoke at the Shurat HaDin conference (Towards a New Law of War conference) May 05, 2015 in Jerusalem and I do not recall hearing anything about his comments that were discussed or referenced by MSM. What I did alternatively see that made quite a splash were comments regarding an Iranian book that brought the MSM screaming about the evils of Iran.

Iran Book

Now, when you have commits such at the following, please think about why they are not being published here or in any Western media outlets:

Source

Comments like:

Now those who claim that this battle is not fair because democracy can’t fight back tyrannical regime — not talking about terror organizations– I don’t agree with it.
In certain cases, we might take certain steps that we believe that these steps should be taken in order to defend ourselves. I mentioned the discussion about the interception of the rockets’ positions on civilian houses. We decided to do it.
I can imagine some other steps that should be taken. Of course, we should be sure that we can look at the mirror after the decision, or the operation. Of course, we should be sure that it is a military necessity. We should consider cost and benefit, of course.
But, at the end, we might take certain steps.
I do remember the story of President Truman was asked, How do you feel after deciding to launch the nuclear bombs, Nagasaki and Hiroshima, causing at the end the fatalities of 200,000, casualties? And he said, When I heard from my officers the alternative is a long war with Japan, with potential fatalities of a couple of millions, I thought it is a moral decision.
We are not there yet. But that what I’m talking about. Certain steps in cases in which we feel like we don’t have the answer by surgical operations, or something like that.

Was that a threat to Nuke Iran? Never mind that Truman's comments were not taken in true context and that he admitted in his book that the bombing of Japan was not necessary or advised.

Yaalon threatened that “we are going to hurt Lebanese civilians to include kids of the family. We went through a very long deep discussion … we did it then, we did it in [the] Gaza Strip, we are going to do it in any round of hostilities in the future.”

Now what indiscriminate targeting of civilian populated neighborhoods as a tactical goal?

Justifying Israeli attacks on civilians was the main theme of the conference. Speaker after speaker lined up to reinterpret international law so that it would, supposedly, allow the killing of Palestinian and other Arab civilians.

Here is the video of the conference:



Here is an official transcript of the conference:

Yalon Transcript

I am sure that many will simply sweep this aside as Israel is supposedly allies of the west. I think people need to do far more digging to see the truth that the MSM are unwilling or unable to report. It is time that people start to learn that much of their indoctrination and propaganda is not the whole picture and not the whole truth either.

a reply to: notmyrealname

Why does none of this surprise me. Nor would it surprise me that if word oozed out that such a bombing had been carried out, Israyhell would not have the guts to admit it was them and would in all likelihood deny it or at very best say nothing.

a reply to: Azureblue
Actually the statement that you just described has already happened.

On 19 and 20 July, Israel carried out a massive artillery bombardment of the Shujaiya neighborhood of eastern Gaza City, killing at least 55 people, including 19 children and 14 women.

As The Electronic Intifada reported last year, the type of weapons used – predominantly heavy artillery and mortars – means the attack could not but have been indiscriminate.

Israel also used over 100 one-ton bombs in the attack which destroyed 670 buildings and damaged another 1,200.

The UN report now confirms that “these methods and means employed by the [Israeli army] could not, in such a small and densely populated area, be directed at a specific military target and could not adequately distinguish between civilians and civilian objects and military objectives as required by [international humanitarian law].”

“Therefore,” the report concludes, “there are strong indications that the IDF’s [Israeli army] Shujaiya operation on 19 and 20 July was conducted in violation of the prohibition of indiscriminate attacks and may amount to a war crime.”

…still crickets from Western media….

a reply to: notmyrealname

Please can I urge members here not to just take the OP's word for this. They are misrepresenting the speech.

Please watch the video for yourselves and you will see the OP has twisted this speech. They are using propaganda on you. Make your own mind up. Don't just listen to people like this who have a very clear agenda of their own.

Watch the video!

Then ask why Palestinian terrorists launch rockets from densely populated districts, quite literally from civilian houses where children are living? They launch them from schools, too. Ask yourselves WHY they do that? What does that tell you about their civility? They do it so Israel has no choice, but to bomb civilian areas to defend its own. Then they use the deaths of their children as propaganda. Human shields, human shields, human shields, using children as human shields. That is mainly what the speech is about.

The speech is intelligent. It is not that of a crazy man as the OP is suggesting.

Op, I must say you know how to deal out propaganda.

Don't just accept this crap being spouted. WATCH THE VIDEO and let the man talk for himself:

"We are committed to Israeli law, We are committed to International law",

"We will warn civilians".

Do you see how speech can be twisted.

"Was that a threat to Nuke Iran?" Only the OP has drawn and their Intifada mates that conclusion. It is NOWHETRE in the speech. The OP is trying to put words into your mind. Their source is called "The Electronic Intifada", which condones terrorism.

Clever, OP, but nowhere near clever enough.

Watch the video. I am not trying to put words or ideas in your mind, just asking you to let the man speak for himself. It is in English.

a reply to: notmyrealname

Yes, Intifada does involve terrorism:

Jewish Virtual Library - Terrorism Against Israel

This link lists a "Comprehensive Listing of Fatalities September 1993 - Present".

Intifada uses terrorism. Electronic Intifada gives these terrorists a mouthpiece. It is to a degree a mouthpiece for terrorists.

a reply to: Revolution9

yeah thats exactly right .

1- dear israel , why did you attack US warship on a false-flag attempt ?

- oh , i swear to the lord above that i mistook a gigantic US warship for a little tiny egyption boat

2- sweet little Israel , why do you kill and massacre palestinian kids and rip their heart apart using bombs and hell even white phosphorus ?

- Lord above knows that i'm just protecting my own people from water rockets they hide behind their own kids and fire those rockets from schools

- did the palestinian kid that was burned alive along with his family , pose any threat to Israeli citizens ?

- damn straight , the kid was a potential terrorist

3- baby Israel , why do you continue to ignore numerous United nations resolutions and build even more settler houses on PALESTINIAN lands and continue to act like a sh!!!t of a country and attack their people ?

- Meh

4- why have you attacked all of your neighbors and continue to threaten them and threaten Iran on a daily basis ?

- meh again


==================================

but when it comes to Iran : Iran published a book !! OMGGGG oh holy cow what monsters they are .

yeah it's clear the OP is delusional . he has no right whatsoever to conclude that from that speech .

he said he would warn people . so big deal . they nuke Iran but they will warn people 10 minutes before launch .

you people are so anti-semite and racist

a reply to: notmyrealname

I'm not even surprised. They've been openly calling for strikes against Iran for years. Then they turn around & act like they're the victims of threats by pointing to a misquoted speech from Iran's former President Ahmadinejad. Their politicians make all kinds of racist comments against black immigrants, then claim they're being victimized by racists if someone calls them out on it. They blow up UN shelters & Palestinian schools, then act like they deserve sympathy from poor people who throw rocks at their tanks.

And remember during Israel's latest war with the Palestinians when Israeli official Moshe Feiglin called for concentration camps against the Palestinians? Oh sorry, "tent encampments".

Knesset member: Retake Gaza, put civilians in ‘tent camps’

“Concentrate ” and “exterminate”: Israel parliament deputy speaker’s Gaza genocide plan

Israeli official calls for concentration camps in Gaza and 'the conquest of the entire Gaza Strip, and annihilation of all fighting forces and their supporters'

But we're supposed to ignore this because of a nonexistent threat from Iran.

originally posted by: Revolution9
a reply to: notmyrealname

Yes, Intifada does involve terrorism:

Jewish Virtual Library - Terrorism Against Israel

This link lists a "Comprehensive Listing of Fatalities September 1993 - Present".

Intifada uses terrorism. Electronic Intifada gives these terrorists a mouthpiece. It is to a degree a mouthpiece for terrorists.

What's your definition of terrorism? Does blowing up schools count as terrorism? And what about intentionally targeting civilians during airstrikes? Because Israel did all of these and more just in their latest war against the Palestinians. Israeli officials even have a policy people call "Mowing the Grass" that you should look up.

Mowing the grass in Gaza

Mowing the Grass and Taking Out the Trash

Also, why shouldn't people be allowed to resist an illegal occupation? I don't like violence but even I'd resist if a foreign country invaded my neighborhood.

The most fantastic Israelis i have ever met,shows love in a way that is impossible for a human. The most self centered and hating people i have met are Jewish.

a reply to: haman10

Sweet little Palestine that uses children as human shields and propaganda fodder. At least they could launch their rockets from military positions away from civilian population, but fat chance of that, eh.

You are taking the thread in a different direction. I think we need to get back to the OP. We are discussing a speech and the merits of the OP's use and possible misuse of the speech for propaganda purposes. Can you please at least offer your thoughts on that instead of a general attack on Israel's Gaza policy. The thread is not about that. I was fair. I talked only about the speech and the OP's source. You have not even addressed the speech even slightly. You just spouted a lot of rhetoric about how Israel are going to launch a nuclear attack on Iran. Now that is very amusing and quite absurd and was never mentioned in THE SPEECH.

originally posted by: yulka
The most fantastic Israelis i have ever met,shows love in a way that is impossible for a human. The most self centered and hating people i have met are Jewish.

Absolutely disgusting comment. You are playing on some grotesque caricature and falsehood. That is very racist. I would never say such a thing about your people. You are quite frankly barbaric to say such race hating things. Again, you have not commented on THE SPEECH.

originally posted by: enlightenedservant

originally posted by: Revolution9
a reply to: notmyrealname

Yes, Intifada does involve terrorism:

Jewish Virtual Library - Terrorism Against Israel

This link lists a "Comprehensive Listing of Fatalities September 1993 - Present".

Intifada uses terrorism. Electronic Intifada gives these terrorists a mouthpiece. It is to a degree a mouthpiece for terrorists.

What's your definition of terrorism? Does blowing up schools count as terrorism? And what about intentionally targeting civilians during airstrikes? Because Israel did all of these and more just in their latest war against the Palestinians. Israeli officials even have a policy people call "Mowing the Grass" that you should look up.

Mowing the grass in Gaza

Mowing the Grass and Taking Out the Trash

Also, why shouldn't people be allowed to resist an illegal occupation? I don't like violence but even I'd resist if a foreign country invaded my neighborhood.

You know what terrorism means. We can discuss the meaning of terrorism in another thread. Have the courage to write a thread about that. Now back to THE SPEECH and the OP.

a reply to: notmyrealname

Victims of a Holocaust advocating a future Holocaust , how ironic.

originally posted by: Revolution9

originally posted by: enlightenedservant

originally posted by: Revolution9
a reply to: notmyrealname

Yes, Intifada does involve terrorism:

Jewish Virtual Library - Terrorism Against Israel

This link lists a "Comprehensive Listing of Fatalities September 1993 - Present".

Intifada uses terrorism. Electronic Intifada gives these terrorists a mouthpiece. It is to a degree a mouthpiece for terrorists.

What's your definition of terrorism? Does blowing up schools count as terrorism? And what about intentionally targeting civilians during airstrikes? Because Israel did all of these and more just in their latest war against the Palestinians. Israeli officials even have a policy people call "Mowing the Grass" that you should look up.

Mowing the grass in Gaza

Mowing the Grass and Taking Out the Trash

Also, why shouldn't people be allowed to resist an illegal occupation? I don't like violence but even I'd resist if a foreign country invaded my neighborhood.

You know what terrorism means. We can discuss the meaning of terrorism in another thread. Have the courage to write a thread about that. Now back to THE SPEECH and the OP.

LOL Like I have to answer to you. You spoke of terrorism so I pointed out Israel's actual acts of terrorism. How is Israel not committing terrorism when they blow up schools with people still in them? How is that not terrorism?

originally posted by: gortex
a reply to: notmyrealname

Victims of a Holocaust advocating a future Holocaust , how ironic.

If you watch the speech and listen then you will quite clearly understand that this was not mentioned as the OP is trying to make it out to be. Please address that. Tell me where the Law Centre speech said anything about nuking Iran. It is not mentioned at all.

Israel work closely with the US and Netanyahu has even gone along with the U.S on the Iran deal. He does not like it and many see it as a future error, but he listens to the U.S and works closely with them. There is no Final Solution in Israel to exterminate Palestinians is there. There are no gas chambers. Israel fights a military war and bombs military targets. Their enemy is so ruthless they launch the missiles from houses and schools.

originally posted by: enlightenedservant

originally posted by: Revolution9

originally posted by: enlightenedservant

originally posted by: Revolution9
a reply to: notmyrealname

Yes, Intifada does involve terrorism:

Jewish Virtual Library - Terrorism Against Israel

This link lists a "Comprehensive Listing of Fatalities September 1993 - Present".

Intifada uses terrorism. Electronic Intifada gives these terrorists a mouthpiece. It is to a degree a mouthpiece for terrorists.

What's your definition of terrorism? Does blowing up schools count as terrorism? And what about intentionally targeting civilians during airstrikes? Because Israel did all of these and more just in their latest war against the Palestinians. Israeli officials even have a policy people call "Mowing the Grass" that you should look up.

Mowing the grass in Gaza

Mowing the Grass and Taking Out the Trash

Also, why shouldn't people be allowed to resist an illegal occupation? I don't like violence but even I'd resist if a foreign country invaded my neighborhood.

You know what terrorism means. We can discuss the meaning of terrorism in another thread. Have the courage to write a thread about that. Now back to THE SPEECH and the OP.

LOL Like I have to answer to you. You spoke of terrorism so I pointed out Israel's actual acts of terrorism. How is Israel not committing terrorism when they blow up schools with people still in them? How is that not terrorism?

As I said they launch missiles from houses and schools against Israel. Israel bombs military targets. Tell the Palestinians to stop being such cowards and fight a fair war. Tell them to stop using children as human shields. Israel do not do that. Tell me one instance where Israel has used civilians as a human shield.

Israel even fly over and drop leaflets warning the civilians in advance to get clear. They can not give a longer warning because that will give the enemy time to move their military hardware.

a reply to: Revolution9

Tell the Palestinians to stop being such cowards and fight a fair war

Seriously ?
A bunch of Palestinian fighters against one of the best armed countries in the world , yeah that sounds like a fair fight.

Israel bombs military targets.

Israel bombs where it pleases , when they're caught then the excuses start.

Tell them to stop using children as human shields. Israel do not do that.

But they do.

Two Israeli soldiers who used a nine-year-old Palestinian boy as a human shield were given suspended sentences and demoted after being convicted of "inappropriate conduct".
www.theguardian.com...

And have.

A United Nations human rights body accused Israeli forces on Thursday of mistreating Palestinian children, including by torturing those in custody and using others as human shields.

Palestinian children in the Gaza and the West Bank, captured by Israel in the 1967 war, are routinely denied registration of their birth and access to health care, decent schools and clean water, the U.N. Committee on the Rights of the Child said.

"Palestinian children arrested by (Israeli) military and police are systematically subject to degrading treatment, and often to acts of torture, are interrogated in Hebrew, a language they did not understand, and sign confessions in Hebrew in order to be released," it said in a report.
www.reuters.com...

a reply to: notmyrealname

We are free to choose sides. We are free to live with the consequences. It is a war. Israel will defend itself against attack. Anyone who launches a missile strike against Israel will be met with a swift response, simple as that. They are interpreting International Law.

My advice to Israel is be very transparent about your actions and act within International Law. Minimise child and civilian casualties as far as possible for humanitarian reasons and because this is the enemy's best propaganda tool. Take pictures of your enemy firing missiles from civilian houses and schools so the world can see how Gaza sacrifice their children to use as propaganda in the world at large.

As for the speech, I see quite clearly it was twisted in this thread. Most people here will not watch the whole speech and see how measured it was in approach, that it mentioned nothing of using a nuclear weapon against Iraq, that a commitment was expressed to International Law.

May the best Lawyer win. I personally would much rather see battles fought in the court room, with diplomacy and by lawyers and diplomats rather than missiles.

Peace, Shalom!

originally posted by: Revolution9

originally posted by: enlightenedservant

originally posted by: Revolution9

originally posted by: enlightenedservant

originally posted by: Revolution9
a reply to: notmyrealname

Yes, Intifada does involve terrorism:

Jewish Virtual Library - Terrorism Against Israel

This link lists a "Comprehensive Listing of Fatalities September 1993 - Present".

Intifada uses terrorism. Electronic Intifada gives these terrorists a mouthpiece. It is to a degree a mouthpiece for terrorists.

What's your definition of terrorism? Does blowing up schools count as terrorism? And what about intentionally targeting civilians during airstrikes? Because Israel did all of these and more just in their latest war against the Palestinians. Israeli officials even have a policy people call "Mowing the Grass" that you should look up.

Mowing the grass in Gaza

Mowing the Grass and Taking Out the Trash

Also, why shouldn't people be allowed to resist an illegal occupation? I don't like violence but even I'd resist if a foreign country invaded my neighborhood.

You know what terrorism means. We can discuss the meaning of terrorism in another thread. Have the courage to write a thread about that. Now back to THE SPEECH and the OP.

LOL Like I have to answer to you. You spoke of terrorism so I pointed out Israel's actual acts of terrorism. How is Israel not committing terrorism when they blow up schools with people still in them? How is that not terrorism?

As I said they launch missiles from houses and schools against Israel. Israel bombs military targets. Tell the Palestinians to stop being such cowards and fight a fair war. Tell them to stop using children as human shields. Israel do not do that. Tell me one instance where Israel has used civilians as a human shield.

Israel even fly over and drop leaflets warning the civilians in advance to get clear. They can not give a longer warning because that will give the enemy time to move their military hardware.

Schools and UN shelters are military targets? Let me get this straight, you consider schools, UN shelters, and apartment buildings legitimate military targets? If so, how's that any different than terrorism? I mean this literally. We would demonize extremist groups for attacking these exact same places with the exact same reasoning. But it's ok if a government does it?

And how can you call for a "fair" fight when Israel controls Palestinian resources & has all of the weapons? How is that "fair"? Israel withholds Palestinian resources any time they feel like, are blockading the Gaza Strip, and literally have the best weapons available to the West. The Palestinians have homemade "rockets" which look like glorified fireworks. Israel has tanks, helicopters, aircraft, submarines, and nuclear bombs. The Palestinians throw rocks & shoot homemade rockets. How is Israel fighting "fairly"?

The Palestinians resist Israel's illegal occupation in spite of this massive arms difference. I don't consider that "cowardice" at all. I think it's much more "cowardly" to pick a fight w/Iran while simultaneously begging the US to save it from the very fight it's provoking!

originally posted by: gortex
a reply to: Revolution9

Tell the Palestinians to stop being such cowards and fight a fair war

Seriously ?
A bunch of Palestinian fighters against one of the best armed countries in the world , yeah that sounds like a fair fight.

Israel bombs military targets.

Israel bombs where it pleases , when they're caught then the excuses start.

Tell them to stop using children as human shields. Israel do not do that.

But they do.

Two Israeli soldiers who used a nine-year-old Palestinian boy as a human shield were given suspended sentences and demoted after being convicted of "inappropriate conduct".
www.theguardian.com...

And have.

A United Nations human rights body accused Israeli forces on Thursday of mistreating Palestinian children, including by torturing those in custody and using others as human shields.

Palestinian children in the Gaza and the West Bank, captured by Israel in the 1967 war, are routinely denied registration of their birth and access to health care, decent schools and clean water, the U.N. Committee on the Rights of the Child said.

"Palestinian children arrested by (Israeli) military and police are systematically subject to degrading treatment, and often to acts of torture, are interrogated in Hebrew, a language they did not understand, and sign confessions in Hebrew in order to be released," it said in a report.
www.reuters.com...

Two Israeli soldiers who used a nine-year-old Palestinian boy as a human shield were given suspended sentences and demoted after being convicted of "inappropriate conduct".

You have found one instance of it, an isolated incident, and the soldiers were convicted for misconduct.

I can't condone treating any child badly. Where it is happening it must be addressed. It is doing your enemy's work for them.

You know how many instances of brutality by Palestinians upon Israeli civilians there are. I listed earlier 300 of them. I could have written 300 pages of that on this thread, but just gave the one link.

Israel bombs where it pleases , when they're caught then the excuses start.

No it does not. It bombs military targets. If their enemy insists on using houses and schools to launch missile attacks then really what choice is there. That is why the U.N has no tight case against Israel because Gaza is using tactics like that. If Gaza will launch their attacks away from civilians then this would not happen. As long as Gaza does this then Israel will be able to say they are striking military targets because that is what they are doing. They are targeting the missile launchers, not the civilians.

Surely you know war by now. You have seen how dirty it gets. Look what happens with the U.S. Sometimes there are attacks against its own forces through misidentification. All kinds of craziness happens.

There is plenty of ammo to use on the U.N, too, like Child sexual abuse by UN peacekeepers, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.

I hope that Israel will learn some lessons about modern warfare, to be very careful and use stealth. All incidents of mal practise and treatment will be used as propaganda by their enemy.

International Law is International Law. It does not say you can not fire on military targets if they are in civilian areas. If they did then all attacks would be launched hiding in the civilian population.

Gaza plays a vile game doing this. Gortex, go change International Law then you will have a case. In the mean time it is just tit for tat, pointless diatribes all round.