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originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
By advocating for a minimum wage. Is this not what the entire thread is about?
The market dynamics Manhattan (New York) are not the same as in Manhattan (Kansas).
As I stated earlier, middle class real earnings began to drop when we came off the gold standard and they will not go up in relation to GDP until the dollar is relinked to gold or a basket of commodities.
I can play two or more companies against each other right now and I am currently employed. I get calls regularly from recruiters looking for me to transition. Why do you think I have such a lucrative bonus, commission and yearly increase structure?
originally posted by: nwtrucker
What 'extends beyond this administration? Immigration? Inflation? What do you refer to?
As far as 'competent big gov't', NAME ONE. Ever...
Minimum wage issues, come up when regular/usual democrat policies fall out of disfavor in the polls. The republicans general cave in to those demands to "take that issue away from the next election". Both are pathetic.
Personally, I do not require 'macro' inflation spin, thank you very much. Micro is what 'we the people' suffer from and relate to. Mitigating the micro with the macro is nothing but spin. Creating jobs increases demand and drives wages up. A gov't that cries for increasing the minimum wage is nothing more than a confession that they have NOT improved the economy, have not created an environment where the private sector can expand/recover.
Your incremental increases would only add fuel to increase the minimums even further. The "two-bedroom apt". argument is proof of that.
There should be no federal minimum wage whatsoever. it violates the 10 th and should be left to each state to decide. simple.
originally posted by: nwtrucker
a reply to: AugustusMasonicus
Not to mention, no two people do the same job at the same competency level. A pretty important aspect to wage differences.
originally posted by: Aazadan
What you are presenting here is an argument that states (or more likely counties) should be setting their own minimum wage, not that there shouldn't be one. Most states already do set their own minimum wage for that matter and even some cities do.
The dollar will never be relinked to gold or commodities. Even if it were, a dollar linked to the price of gold is just as much a fiat currency as a dollar linked to nothing. Are you aware of what happened when the government confiscated all the gold? What happened was that the government set the price of gold at $20.67 per ounce and it remained there for 40 years. The 50's and 60's where minimum wage was at it's peak involved just as dishonest a currency as we have today.
That's called playing the market, it doesn't add value only personal gain.
originally posted by: [post=19410754]nwtrucker[/post
Not to mention, no two people do the same job at the same competency level. A pretty important aspect to wage differences.
originally posted by: Aazadan
originally posted by: nwtrucker
What 'extends beyond this administration? Immigration? Inflation? What do you refer to?
All of the above, Obama has essentially been terms 3 and 4 of Bush on policy. In this case however I was referring to minimum wage, earlier I referred to it having been a result of decisions made in every presidency since Reagan but I've been thinking this over all night and really it's been a result of everyone since Nixon.
As far as 'competent big gov't', NAME ONE. Ever...
I'll name 5. China, Norway, Russia, Sweeden, Germany. The reason large government always fails in the US is because we elect people who say government is incompetent, and that if you elect them to office they're going to prove it by dismantling the government so that it's even less effective. The danger in big government isn't that the people are incompetent, most high level bureaucrats are actually pulled from successful private sector companies. It's that in a big government every position and office becomes political in nature. For example treatment from a doctor is no longer about a doctor/patient relationship and an individualized treatment plan but rather about medical practices that fulfill a particular persons viewpoint such as needing to cut back on cosmetic surgeries to make time for the truly needy or the internet needs to be regulated to protect the children from online predators.
Minimum wage issues, come up when regular/usual democrat policies fall out of disfavor in the polls. The republicans general cave in to those demands to "take that issue away from the next election". Both are pathetic.
No, they come up because it's in our human nature to ask for more. Minimum wage positions by definition don't give raises, if they did they would no longer be positions at or near the minimum wage. Just as an employee making more than the minimum expects a raise every couple years, so do minimum wage employees if for no other reason than to maintain purchasing power parity. It just so happens that the financial reality agrees that minimum wage is declining year after year in purchasing power. This is true of most income levels, due to the high spread of wealth inequality we currently have the 1st-89th income percentiles are seeing their purchasing power decline, those from 90th-95th have seen their purchasing power remain mostly level, while those in the 96th-99th have seen their purchasing power increase.
Lets say minimum wage is paying what it should be paying, even that position necessitates an annual increase to the minimum wage that is higher than it's currently getting. The only argument that says minimum wage shouldn't go up is one that says minimum wage is too high. So I ask, how low should minimum wage be? The average rent for a low end studio apartment in the country right now is $750/month. That represents 53% of the monthly income of someone at minimum wage. The rule of thumb I've seen every financial adviser or landlord ever give is that mortgage/rent should be no more than 30% of income. If minimum wage is going to go down which is the result of not changing the wage, what percentage of a low wage workers income should a roof over their head cost them?
Personally, I do not require 'macro' inflation spin, thank you very much. Micro is what 'we the people' suffer from and relate to. Mitigating the micro with the macro is nothing but spin. Creating jobs increases demand and drives wages up. A gov't that cries for increasing the minimum wage is nothing more than a confession that they have NOT improved the economy, have not created an environment where the private sector can expand/recover.
Microeconomics involves the behavior of individuals, what would fall under micro economics is concepts such as purchasing a bag of rice vs bread and a jar of peanut butter or the willingness of a person to buy an Ipad. This would also involve my above example of a low wage worker and the cost of rent if you're looking at a small subset of people rather than a group.
Macroeconomics involves regional and national economies and is what you look at when referring to things like tax revenue, federal budgets, unemployment rates, inflation, minimum wages, and wage gaps.
Your incremental increases would only add fuel to increase the minimums even further. The "two-bedroom apt". argument is proof of that.
I'm not using the 2 bedroom apartment argument. I'm using a studio in a slum.
There should be no federal minimum wage whatsoever. it violates the 10 th and should be left to each state to decide. simple.
This isn't an answer. Lets say you abolish the federal minimum wage, now your state has to decide on a minimum wage. You still have to decide if you're either for one or against one, and if so how much. On top of that, deciding minimum wage at the state level falls victim to the same argument as to why you shouldn't decide it at the federal level. Certain areas of states are less expensive than others such as southern Ohio (where I am) is MUCH cheaper than somewhere in central Ohio like Columbus. It doesn't make sense for my area to be subject to the same wage as a city with a higher cost of living which then means you need to decide the wage on a county level.
originally posted by: nwtrucker
originally posted by: Aazadan
originally posted by: nwtrucker
What 'extends beyond this administration? Immigration? Inflation? What do you refer to?
All of the above, Obama has essentially been terms 3 and 4 of Bush on policy. In this case however I was referring to minimum wage, earlier I referred to it having been a result of decisions made in every presidency since Reagan but I've been thinking this over all night and really it's been a result of everyone since Nixon.
As far as 'competent big gov't', NAME ONE. Ever...
[/quot
I'll name 5. China, Norway, Russia, Sweeden, Germany. The reason large government always fails in the US is because we elect people who say government is incompetent, and that if you elect them to office they're going to prove it by dismantling the government so that it's even less effective. The danger in big government isn't that the people are incompetent, most high level bureaucrats are actually pulled from successful private sector companies. It's that in a big government every position and office becomes political in nature. For example treatment from a doctor is no longer about a doctor/patient relationship and an individualized treatment plan but rather about medical practices that fulfill a particular persons viewpoint such as needing to cut back on cosmetic surgeries to make time for the truly needy or the internet needs to be regulated to protect the children from online predators.
Minimum wage issues, come up when regular/usual democrat policies fall out of disfavor in the polls. The republicans general cave in to those demands to "take that issue away from the next election". Both are pathetic.
No, they come up because it's in our human nature to ask for more. Minimum wage positions by definition don't give raises, if they did they would no longer be positions at or near the minimum wage. Just as an employee making more than the minimum expects a raise every couple years, so do minimum wage employees if for no other reason than to maintain purchasing power parity. It just so happens that the financial reality agrees that minimum wage is declining year after year in purchasing power. This is true of most income levels, due to the high spread of wealth inequality we currently have the 1st-89th income percentiles are seeing their purchasing power decline, those from 90th-95th have seen their purchasing power remain mostly level, while those in the 96th-99th have seen their purchasing power increase.
Lets say minimum wage is paying what it should be paying, even that position necessitates an annual increase to the minimum wage that is higher than it's currently getting. The only argument that says minimum wage shouldn't go up is one that says minimum wage is too high. So I ask, how low should minimum wage be? The average rent for a low end studio apartment in the country right now is $750/month. That represents 53% of the monthly income of someone at minimum wage. The rule of thumb I've seen every financial adviser or landlord ever give is that mortgage/rent should be no more than 30% of income. If minimum wage is going to go down which is the result of not changing the wage, what percentage of a low wage workers income should a roof over their head cost them?
Personally, I do not require 'macro' inflation spin, thank you very much. Micro is what 'we the people' suffer from and relate to. Mitigating the micro with the macro is nothing but spin. Creating jobs increases demand and drives wages up. A gov't that cries for increasing the minimum wage is nothing more than a confession that they have NOT improved the economy, have not created an environment where the private sector can expand/recover.
Microeconomics involves the behavior of individuals, what would fall under micro economics is concepts such as purchasing a bag of rice vs bread and a jar of peanut butter or the willingness of a person to buy an Ipad. This would also involve my above example of a low wage worker and the cost of rent if you're looking at a small subset of people rather than a group.
Macroeconomics involves regional and national economies and is what you look at when referring to things like tax revenue, federal budgets, unemployment rates, inflation, minimum wages, and wage gaps.
Your incremental increases would only add fuel to increase the minimums even further. The "two-bedroom apt". argument is proof of that.
I'm not using the 2 bedroom apartment argument. I'm using a studio in a slum.
There should be no federal minimum wage whatsoever. it violates the 10 th and should be left to each state to decide. simple.
This isn't an answer. Lets say you abolish the federal minimum wage, now your state has to decide on a minimum wage. You still have to decide if you're either for one or against one, and if so how much. On top of that, deciding minimum wage at the state level falls victim to the same argument as to why you shouldn't decide it at the federal level. Certain areas of states are less expensive than others such as southern Ohio (where I am) is MUCH cheaper than somewhere in central Ohio like Columbus. It doesn't make sense for my area to be subject to the same wage as a city with a higher cost of living which then means you need to decide the wage on a county level.
Then, again, let the state decide whether to have regional to have regional minimum wages...or not. If a state feels that city rate sgould be higher than rural. that falls within their perview. Not the federal gov't with a national Minimum wage which makes that very point even worse by imposing the same rate on each state when even those stats have varying expense levels. You contradict yourself.
If your in a studio in a slum, change your employment. Don't ask me and businesses that already have a hard time surviving to subsidize your lack of creativity or efforts for upward mobility.
It is obvious to me that we are adversaries when it comes to gov't size and power versus individual liberties.
The gov't we have now actually represents the split in views of the general population. The grid-lock in the Federal gov't reflects the same grid-lock at the grass roots level.
As Obama was quoted as saying a couple of days ago, "I'm not acting illegally, I'm expanding my authority."
THAT is the result of big government. Big government only response to big groups. The individual becomes nothing. Your apparent support of the second amendment will eventually lose out to that big government and you know it.
originally posted by: nwtrucker
First, I will say this again seeing you ignored it. The current issues are the responsibility of the current administration. Period. Pointing out similar-yet obviously lesser, earlier examples, solves nothing and san only be construed as a justification/excuse for the current administration.
Next, citing Russia and China as effective 'big gov'ts' speaks hugely. I won't even respond to those two choices as it is an insult to rational thinking individuals. Both are repressive, kill/incarcerate dissidents, and make the U.S. look benign in comparison.
This re-enforces my state by state opinion/view. Let each state decide for themselves when it comes to minimum wages. health care, marriage issues on and on. It was how the constitution was envisioned and set up. Individual rights allow for variables in individual views, enforcement from an ever increasing big gov't represses those varying views.
originally posted by: nwtrucker
If your in a studio in a slum, change your employment. Don't ask me and businesses that already have a hard time surviving to subsidize your lack of creativity or efforts for upward mobility.
It is obvious to me that we are adversaries when it comes to gov't size and power versus individual liberties.
The gov't we have now actually represents the split in views of the general population. The grid-lock in the Federal gov't reflects the same grid-lock at the grass roots level.
THAT is the result of big government. Big government only response to big groups. The individual becomes nothing. Your apparent support of the second amendment will eventually lose out to that big government and you know it.
originally posted by: Aazadan
originally posted by: nwtrucker
First, I will say this again seeing you ignored it. The current issues are the responsibility of the current administration. Period. Pointing out similar-yet obviously lesser, earlier examples, solves nothing and san only be construed as a justification/excuse for the current administration.
It's not an excuse for the current administration, it's saying the problem didn't start with them. If you don't know why a problem began you can't fix it and if you don't look past Jan 20th 2009 you're not going to see the problem of why.
If there a forest fire, it doesn't matter when it started, per say, one puts the damn thing out.
Next, citing Russia and China as effective 'big gov'ts' speaks hugely. I won't even respond to those two choices as it is an insult to rational thinking individuals. Both are repressive, kill/incarcerate dissidents, and make the U.S. look benign in comparison.[/quote
I didn't say China and Russia were nice places, and that's not what you asked for. I said their governments were effective. You can have repressive regimes that are both effective and ineffective, that's the difference between North Korea for example. You can also have happy freedom loving governments that are effective vs ineffective, that's the difference between the US and Norway. Additionally you can have small freedom loving governments that are effective vs ineffective that's the difference between Singapore and Somalia.
Hmm, sounds like your a Kissinger acolyte...
Singapore is a lousy example, perhaps Iceland, still, a exception that prove the rule. The larger the nation and the efforts to homogenize the populace into some manageable collection so as to make things easier for the Gov't.
This re-enforces my state by state opinion/view. Let each state decide for themselves when it comes to minimum wages. health care, marriage issues on and on. It was how the constitution was envisioned and set up. Individual rights allow for variables in individual views, enforcement from an ever increasing big gov't represses those varying views.
Healthcare as a state issue is fine, marriage not so much because it gets into civil rights which are already a federal issue under the constitution. Minimum wage again is fine if it's not decided at a federal level, but as I've said so many times states rights is not a position on an issue, it's only limiting who can vote on the issue and where it applies. If your state is deciding minimum wage you still have to decide on how much it should be if it's there at all.
Agreed.
originally posted by: nwtrucker
If your in a studio in a slum, change your employment. Don't ask me and businesses that already have a hard time surviving to subsidize your lack of creativity or efforts for upward mobility.
That only works on an individual level. Any given person can change their circumstances but there will always be a bottom 1% of income earners, a bottom 10%, and so on, just as there will always be a top 1%. Bathrooms still need mopped, toilets cleaned, cashiers and shelf stockers in stores. Those people need to be able to earn a living.
It is obvious to me that we are adversaries when it comes to gov't size and power versus individual liberties.
Maybe, maybe not. I just don't see size of government as an issue.
It's obvious to me that size is an issue. The Constitution, the supreme law, is violated by gov't. The bigger the gov't, the more it is violated. When gov't was smaller, in days past, there was far less violation of that Constitution. Less 'interpretations'. Now? A lip-service document, violated when inconvenient.
The gov't we have now actually represents the split in views of the general population. The grid-lock in the Federal gov't reflects the same grid-lock at the grass roots level.
There isn't that much grid lock at the grass roots level, people for the most part agree on the issues, they aren't ideologues. What people are is partisan, they only want to listen to a solution if their side proposes it. Due to the two party system, most issues can't be solved because no one can agree without making their side look weak.
I disagree.
THAT is the result of big government. Big government only response to big groups. The individual becomes nothing. Your apparent support of the second amendment will eventually lose out to that big government and you know it.
Small government risks having the ability to enforce the constitution because the courts are too weak and there's not enough people internally to oppose certain actions. Large government risks the executive or legislative pressuring the judicial.
see the above. Small gov't had less violation of the Constitution, not more.