10,000 year old giants of the Sahara

Not still alive, but the Kiffians of the Sahara dating back some 10,000 years ago were a very tall people with heights of 6' 8" common for both male and female, they appear to have been a Caucasian people from North Africa, when conditions changed and the region became arid they appear to have left

Approximately two hundred human burials were discovered on the edge of a paleolake in Niger that provide a uniquely preserved record of human occupation in the Sahara during the Holocene (~8000 B.C.E. to the present).

...tall in stature, approaching two meters for both males and females. Hyperflexed, supine burial postures predominate, their compact configuration and anatomical articulation suggesting that their bodies were tightly bound with animal skin, ligament or basketry binding, although no trace of these perishable materials are preserved .

Their crania are long and low and are characterized by a distinct occipital bun, flattened sagittal profile, pentagonal posterior outline, broad proportions across the zygoma and interorbital region, broad nasal aperture, and negligible alveolar prognathism

DNA studies of the Taforalt population that is the closest to the Kiffians shows no Sub Saharan Mt DNA in it, just Eurasian specific lineages H, U, JT, V (90.5%) and North African specific U6.

What is surprising is that they had pottery, possibly even dating as far back as 11,500 years, a date which could even suggest they were the first Eurasians to realize this, and that they were not an expansion form the core Neolithic area, the effects from which are generally considered to have arrived in the greater region of Egypt and the Sahara around 6,500 years ago.

The Kiffian culture is associated with the wavy line pottery pottery found in the Sahara. So far the earliest date for this pottery is an unreliable 11,400 years from Mali (it’s sediment dated). This wavy line pottery was spread all over the Sahara, and eventually made it as far as Nubia about 9,500 years ago.

However, pottery turns up in Iran just prior to the pottery in Nubia, so it’s unclear to where the original point of discovery was, as there’s no nice ‘bullseye’ pattern of dates as yet to give a location. But there does seem to be a reasonable case for the Mechtoid people to have discovered pottery in the Sahara.

The dead were bundled in a very striking manner, in some cases placed upon turtle shells;

7 of 35 burials excavated from the mid-Holocene occupation were buried with artifacts. I remember Sereno showing us a photograph of an individual buried with a turtle shell underneath him, the carapace functioning as an eternal bed.

Lakeside cemetries in the Sahara

I don't understand why more people aren't fascinated by the Kiffians. Here we have remains of dozens of individuals from a prehistoric culture of UNUSUALLY tall people, living in what is now the world's largest hot desert at a period when it was fertile. I find the discovery of the remains of a single person of impressively large stature to be interesting and the Kiffians are quite literally the closest thing we have to a known "ancient race of giants" and yet it just doesn't seem to be exotic enough for the people obsessed with Nephilim and double rows of teeth!

Also, you can't really mention the Kiffians without the Tenerians!

Here we have a completely separate group of people occupying the same region a thousand or more years after the Kiffians who buried their dead alongside the Kiffians which is really mind blowing.

a reply to: theantediluvian

Yes all true, part of the remarkably tall and muscular North African Caucasians, the Tenerians also seem to have continued in the pottery style of the Kiffians and like them all the evidence suggests a peaceful and healthy people, they buried their dead with lots of flowers on the grave, all good.

Very interesting, I had never heard of this group of people before. I certainly will be spending a few hours looking into these giants. Thank you

a reply to: Kantzveldt

Imagine the Tenerians migrating into the once more green Sahara after a period of a thousand or so years of aridation and finding the graves and artifacts of the Kiffians. What must they have thought? To have buried their dead alongside the Kiffians, I'd assume that they recognized the sanctity of the Kiffian burial grounds at the very least and likely revered the Kiffians.

Great thread OP , The video you posted does it come in English or maybe with subs ?


Kap

definitely an FanS thread
turtleshell/burials and wave motifs on the pottery?

turtles are born out of the earth.....eta: sand

a reply to: theantediluvian

I'd have thought there'd have to be overlap in some way if they're making pottery in a similar manner, the continuation in tradition is also seen in the rock art of course were differing styles and culture continue at the same sites.


a reply to: Kapusta

No sorry only the German dub version seems available, it has been shown in English on Nat-Geo entitled Skeletons of the Sahara

a reply to: Kantzveldt

Are these "Turtle People" related in any way to those you have written about in previous threads?

a reply to: Hazon

I don't know but it's obviously something i consider, though of course much distance in place and time from the Sahara to the Persian gulf thousands of years later were the Sumerian turtle tradition was located, but in death certainly it seems they became as turtles.

In consideration though is the curious correspondence to the Dogon traditions of Mali with those of the Persian gulf.

a reply to: Kantzveldt

Fascinating to think that these people were caucasian as I suspect many people don't think of such tall caucasians in Africa, although trade around the mediterranean would have meant there are probably more races died out than we know about.

I remember watching a documentary about the 'giants in Africa from the Watutsi tribe, these people were in the late 6' to 7' range especially from their royal line. A display filmed in the past was shown of them dancing and they looked like very long, thin stalks with fantastic feathered headrests. I remember being told none of the dancers were under 6' tall.

I wonder we find tallness it so strange, because going back to the past animals were very much bigger than they are today so why shouldn't men have been larger also? Height seems to be present when food is plentiful and we shrink down when it is not.

The pottery is also very impressive from the area and I cannot wonder if the cave with the swimmers drawn in it was of any of these peoples mentioned above. The Sahara must have been an interesting place so very different from today's sand dunes.

I must say that is a weird way to be buried, all bound. like they were prisoners. Why else would they bound their bodies like this. Maybe they thought it would help to ensure all of their own bodies made it to the afterlife.

I find it funny that an ancient North African tribe/race of people are "Caucasoid". I love the way how Africans get downplayed on their own damn continent. So...the Kiffians were first, then the more "negroid" group, the Tenerians, were black. Makes no sense to me. For the love of God, just say white people discovered and did EVERYTHING.

originally posted by: FeistyFemme
I find it funny that an ancient North African tribe/race of people are "Caucasoid". I love the way how Africans get downplayed on their own damn continent. So...the Kiffians were first, then the more "negroid" group, the Tenerians, were black. Makes no sense to me. For the love of God, just say white people discovered and did EVERYTHING.

Caucasoid does not mean white it's a grouping of physical characteristics for people in Europe, middle east, north africa. Nothing to do with colour.

a reply to: yorkshirelad

If that was the case then why are white people classified as 'Caucasoid', blacks 'Negroid', and Asians 'Mongoloid'?

very cool.

a reply to: Shiloh7

Caucasian is a very general term, i don't think this group were ever in the Caucasus, but they were an interesting ancient people. It's not just their height that impresses me but their supposed build and strength and there was as you suggest a period of over sized game animals were this would have been required.

... the stone tool cultures and genetics suggest an expansion from Lower Nubia/Egypt about 24k ago that spawned off the Mechtoid/Kebaran populations, which was roughly equal in terms of back-migrating Eurasian and Nubian-African ancestry. Except for the Taforalt population, which ADNA has shown was entirely Eurasian for mt DNA, and may have been the result of a migration southwards across the straits of Gibraltar about the time of the LGM (20k ago) mixing with the local Mechtoids.

Mathilda on Mechtoids

originally posted by: FeistyFemme
If that was the case then why are white people classified as 'Caucasoid', blacks 'Negroid', and Asians 'Mongoloid'?

Because the terminology was coined along racial grounds prior to being utilized by science on scientific grounds. Granted, the latter's scientific naming, although denied by Blumenbach, continued the racial naming.

When used in scientific terms, it is generally accepted that the terms Caucasoid, Mongoloid, and Negroid refer to the craniology only.

Not still alive, but the Kiffians of the Sahara dating back some 10,000 years ago were a very tall people with heights of 6' 8" common for both male and female

I think this is an overstatement, the average appears to be about 6' to 6'-6" (2M), the one remain was of a 6'-8" individual, but that's not an average height.

Their racial makeup does not appear to be Caucasian either;

The Craniofacial dimensions of the skulls suggests that these people were related to the contemporary people of Mali and Mauritania, who in turn were related to the Mechta Afalou people of the Mahgreb. This concurs with observations about Eurasian haplotypes moving into the southern Sahara at some ancient time (Mt DNA haplotype U and Y chromosome R1b). These people seem to have split off from the Southern Cro Magnons about 30,000 years ago or more, but also have a minor affinity to Nubian populations, probably from the Wadi Halfa northwards expansion about 25,000 years ago.

Principal components analysis of craniofacial dimensions among Late Pleistocene to mid-Holocene populations from the Maghreb and southern Sahara.

Plot of first two principal components extracted from a mean matrix for 17 craniometric variables (Tables 4, 7) in 9 human populations (Table 3) from the Late Pleistocene through the mid-Holocene from the Maghreb and southern Sahara. Seven trans-Saharan populations cluster together, whereas Late Pleistocene Aterians (Ater) and the mid-Holocene population at Gobero (Gob-m) are striking outliers. Axes are scaled by the square root of the corresponding eigenvalue for the principal component. Abbreviations: Ater, Aterian; EMC, eastern Maghreb Capsian; EMI, eastern Maghreb Iberomaurusian; Gob-e, Gobero early Holocene; Gob-m, Gobero mid-Holocene; Mali, Hassi-el-Abiod, Mali; Maur, Mauritania; WMC, western Maghreb Capsian; WMI, western Maghreb Iberomaurusian.

DNA studies of the Taforalt population that is the closest to the Kiffians on the chart (WMC)shows no Sub Saharan Mt DNA in it, just Eurasian specific lineages H, U, JT, V (90.5%) and North African specific U6. This is also supported by this study.

Source: The burials at Gobero - mathildasanthropologyblog.wordpress.com

originally posted by: peck420
When used in scientific terms, it is generally accepted that the terms Caucasoid, Mongoloid, and Negroid refer to the craniology only.

This is the truth.

Arab people are considered Caucasoid, are they not?