No major cases cracked with Patriot Act

a reply to: bobs_uruncle

When I look at the US, the patriot act is simply retarded. It's saying that none of you know what you are doing and big gov has to do everything for you, it's insulting just from that standpoint let alone the injury from the number of freedoms it removes and the loss of privacy. Any politician, bureaucrat, corporate mouthpiece or banker that says you need the patriot act is a traitor.

Congrats, you will be called extremist next! Just to make sure that nobody realizes you just nailed the Patriot Act, of course.
But the more I think about this 'big G.' the less I believe it's existent after all. There are many branches involved and each of them is struggling for more power. Therefore I would prefer to call the one with the most influence, which just blocked all efforts to get rid of this Patriot Crap, the mil.-ind-complex. Exactly that branch, Eisenhower warned us from.

a reply to: PublicOpinion


Its because if certain folks know they are being monitored in any way they just adjust the language not to set off the alarms bells. Its really that simple. And if you ask me the folks that push for the act knew this and it never really was their intention to snoop for terrorists but to monitor the attitudes ect, ect of the american people.

originally posted by: DragonsDemesne
I've talked to Americans about this very thing, and the scariest part of all is, that in the unlikely event that they have even *heard* of the Patriot Act, they usually believe that it has actually caught terrorists. The only thing the Patriot Act has caught is politicians in their own lies.

Even the name is classic mind screw.....The Patriot Act. Like "Affordable Health Care" and "Social Security".

The real aim is in the name, the real target.

a reply to: PublicOpinion

Just goes to show the pointlessness of creating reactionary laws.
The noose tightens ever further.....

Liar Liar, pants on fire!....

From the OP's source article.

McCain and others argue that the U.S. could have prevented 9/11 if the NSA programs had been in place before the terror attacks.

The programs WERE in place. I seriously think that they hope every person on Earth is an idiot and couldn't actually tell when they start shoveling BS on top of us....

www.newyorker.com...

articles.baltimoresun.com...

A great documentary on the whole thing...

www.pbs.org...

And just a quick wiki link on the program itself...

THINTHREAD

ThinThread is the name of a project that the United States National Security Agency (NSA) pursued during the 1990s, according to a May 17, 2006 article in The Baltimore Sun.[1] The program involved wiretapping and sophisticated analysis of the resulting data, but according to the article, the program was discontinued three weeks before the September 11, 2001 attacks due to the changes in priorities and the consolidation of U.S. intelligence authority.[2]

Lying POS.

a reply to: GAOTU789

Thank you! Didn't know anything about Thinthread or Trailblazer so far, very good information.

And now some good news:

USA Freedom Act fails in early hours after long Senate session

www.theguardian.com...

What's going on? Patriot Acts stays and the Freedom Acts fails?
Just a scam to keep the screaming public in check or do we see a little victory here? Dunno what to make of this, maybe it's even a bit of both.

a reply to: PublicOpinion

Here's what's happening. The Patriot Act expires at the end of the month, literally a week from today and as near as anyone can tell there is no political will to renew it. Obama has his campaign promises to veto it (he could break them, but it will doom his party in 2016), the Democrats don't want it, and half the Republicans don't want it. But rather than having to vote to repeal legislation, where a politician could be held accountable if they repealed it and something did happen, or even lose favor with their base who supports it, everyone is content to just let it expire instead and use the excuse that no one could cooperate to rebuild it. Basically no matter a persons opinion they get to say they agreed with what their base supports and no one else would cooperate to pass the bill and there's no voting record to say otherwise. Welcome to politics.

On the other hand the Freedom Act is basically the Patriot Act light, it's being approached from a couple of angles. The first is Rand Paul who is leading the charge against it. Fighting this and making the Patriot Act expire is his high risk/high reward strategy to secure 2016 and if it works he gets himself a hell of an achievement in office (something he doesn't have yet). The rest of the Senate would prefer to not extend the Freedom Act because it's basically just the Patriot Act all over again, there's a few things that have been removed but all of the core provisions that are the problem in the first place still exist. If anyone passes this, there will be hell to pay in 2016 and I don't think anyone really wants to fight that fight because it's unclear who wins. Additionally, it won't be clear before the Patriot Act expires, and if someone thinks there's political gain to be made they can always reattempt the Freedom Act later. Now is a bad time to commit to such a vote.

Basically what you're seeing is a massive victory. However, there is still one more last minute vote right before the Patriot Act expires. McConnell is part of the group that likes the act (I think) and he's a deal maker, he will work with anyone to make a deal, he may be able to cobble together support to extend it but unless they want to ensure Rand Paul is sidelined in this election the price is probably too high.

a reply to: Aazadan

Thanks a lot, Aazadan. Yes, McConnell is going full retard on this:

Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell on Sunday defended his support for a measure in the USA Patriot Act that has anchored a National Security Agency program to collect Americans’ phone data.

Speaking at the Edward M. Kennedy Institute in Boston, McConnell called the measure “an impotent tool to prevent the next terrorist attack,” and pledged to continue fighting for it against recent challenges.

www.reuters.com...

Hehehe.

FBI agents can’t point to any major terrorism cases they’ve cracked thanks to the key snooping powers in the Patriot Act,

the Justice Department’s inspector general said

in a report Thursday that could complicate efforts to keep key parts of the law operating.

Well the FBI wouldn't, I guess people stopped reading after the first part of that. The DOJ hasn't been about justice for at least the entire two terms of the current adminstration. Interesting the timing here. After a decade hey guess what ?

Bring up the Patriot Act again. That was signed off by congressman both houses. Both by Democrats, and Republicans.

Hey let us not forget the FISA Act of the Carter administration. Or the Omnibus counter terrorism act of the 90s under Clinton. That is the same thing. Of course we never hear anyone screaming bloody murder about those two.

Then let us not forget over 80 years of gun rights that have been eroded to keep us 'safe' from the baddies with guns.

I would laugh, but its effing sad how after 15 years people still cry about the Patriot Act, and ignore other things like the right to keep, and bear arms, 'Gun free zones' that aren't so gun free. Free speech zones, and every other right that some people think they have the right to, but scream about government spying on them.

Then they turn around, and support the ACA with it's data hub. That is bigger, more intrusive, and no one read just like the PA.

The Patriot Act did work in a way at least for a short time. Terrorist communication regressed to use a methaphor here to smoke signals.

Even that was short lived. Terrorists today are openly using social media, chat rooms, and boards like these to communicate. Like ISIS has been doing for the past few years.

Then there is the 'dark' web.

I wish there was more consistency in America politics. If one is outraged about the PA they should be equally outraged at all the crap that has gone on in the LAST TWO administrations going all the way back to Washington.

Ultimately though here. Laws never stop anything. Decade after decade after trying to legislate human behavior for over two centuries in this country. It has been an exercise in futility.

You can't much like gun laws that punish people who do nothing wrong. That lets big brother know everything about you. The FISA ACT, Omnibus Counter Terrorism Act. ACA lets government know everthing about you. Oh and that's not counting the Financial laws that 'rats' you out to the feds for deposting over 10 grand in your bank accounts.

Same reasoning behind it all. They are the government. They are here to help us, and they are doing things 'right'.

Such is the path to despotism. The only difference is people 'thank' them for it under the false pretense of 'helping' us.

I have had enough help. I bet others have too.

Nothing will ever been done though the PA,ACA,gun regulations,financial regulations are here forever. They are all the same issue.

The state is the master, and will use any 'boogeyman' to usurp power, and freedom from the place it truly belongs.

The people.

a reply to: neo96

Direct democracy for the people, please! Well said.
It's awesome how you come to the same conclusion taking a partly different stand on things. Let me cherrypick a little part I couldn't agree with:

The Patriot Act did work in a way at least for a short time. Terrorist communication regressed to use a methaphor here to smoke signals.

Even that was short lived. Terrorists today are openly using social media, chat rooms, and boards like these to communicate. Like ISIS has been doing for the past few years.

Because they are just a different branch of our 'Worldwide Collection of Usefull Idiots'(TM)? But maybe the Brits dropped their supply just for fun on those IS-freaks, who knows anyway.

The Patriot Act is a complete mess. Ja ok... if you like to live in a nice and feary STASI Brave New World we might consider the loss of freedom for the vague illusion of more security progress. But why would the FBI/ JDIG lie about their major cases at all? Why should they? To avoid any possible raise, program expansion or positive spin on the public opinion due to some actual results? I just don't get it. Heck... they could even prevent some cases of terrorism if there would be working tools in place, don't they? Strange combination of a growing secrurity state on the one hand and growing extremism on the other, one might even think this can't be a coincidence...