The United States is, and has always been, A Christian Nation

I felt so strongly about this that I thought it deserves it's own thread. The OP of NLBS is using the fact that NLBS posts are official, featured articles on ATS to deliver his own opinions from an ATS-sanctioned soapbox no matter that they are not in any way grounded in fact. I think that's disgusting and his threads should from now on be designated as nothing more than opinion pieces and should not be featured on a website whose motto is to "Deny Ignorance".

The United States is, and has always been, A Christian Nation. In fact either God or Jesus is mentioned in our Constitution, the Declaration of Independence, our National Anthem, on our currency, in our Pledge of Allegiance, was mentioned in the first prayer of Congress (note that our Congress HAS a prayer!), is mentioned on multiple national monuments, and in multiple quotes from our founding fathers. I will go through them one by one because apparently the ignorance is rich and thick on this issue.

The United States Constitution, Article VII:

done in Convention by the Unanimous Consent of the States present the Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven and of the Independance of the United States of America the Twelfth In witness whereof We have hereunto subscribed our Names,

Note that it specifically says in the Year of our Lord and not Anno Domini which is Latin for "in the Year of the Lord". See the difference? The U.S. Constitution acknowledges Jesus (who is the Lord) as OUR Lord, and not THE Lord which is how it's used in the Latin term Anno Domini. This is not a secular usage of Anno Domini.

The Declaration of Independence, first paragraph:

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

God is referenced in the Declaration of Independence.

The United States National Anthem:

And this be our motto, ‘In God is our trust'

Our national anthem references God.

On our currency:
From the United States Mint website

From Treasury Department records it appears that the first suggestion that God be recognized on U.S. coinage can be traced to a letter addressed to the Secretary of Treasury from a minister in 1861. An Act of Congress, approved on April 11, 1864, authorized the coinage of two-cent coins upon which the motto first appeared. The motto was omitted from the new gold coins issued in 1907, causing a storm of public criticism. As a result, legislation passed in May 1908 made "In God We Trust" mandatory on all coins on which it had previously appeared. Legislation approved July 11, 1955, made the appearance of "In God We Trust" mandatory on all coins and paper currency of the United States. By Act of July 30, 1956, "In God We Trust" became the national motto of the United States.

The pledge of allegiance:

I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands: one Nation under God, indivisible, With Liberty and Justice for all.

The reference to God was added in 1954 by President Eisenhower who at the time stated:

"In this way we are reaffirming the transcendence of religious faith in America's heritage and future; in this way we shall constantly strengthen those spiritual weapons which forever will be our country's most powerful resource in peace and war."

The first prayer of Congress:

O LORD, OUR HEAVENLY FATHER, high and mighty King of Kings, and Lord of Lords, who dost from Thy throne behold all the dwellers on earth, and reignest with power supreme and uncontrolled over all the kingdoms

The full prayer is much longer than that, but you get the idea.

The Washington Monument:
It has multiple references to God, including:
"In God We Trust"
"Laus Deo" (Latin for Praise be unto God)
"Holiness to the Lord"

The Library of Congress:
In the main reading room are statues of Moses and Paul with an inscription:
"What doth the Lord require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy and to walk humbly with thy God"

The Supreme Court:
On the Supreme Court's lawn is a statue of Moses holding the ten commandments. (the ten commandments reference God)

The Capitol Building:
"In God We Trust" is inscribed in gold letters behind the Speaker's Rostrum in the House Chamber. Also all eight paintings in the Rotunda present aspects of Christian history.

The National Archives:
A bronze design on the floor of the Rotunda contains the ten commandments. (the ten commandments reference God)

The Lincoln Memorial:
On one wall is written the Gettysburg Address which ends with:

that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom -- and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.

The Jefferson Memorial:
One inscription in the Jefferson Memorial is Jefferson’s Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom, which states:

Almighty God hath created the mind free. All attempts to influence it by temporal punishments or burthens . . . are a departure from the plan of the Holy Author of our religion. . . . No man shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship or ministry or shall otherwise suffer on account of his religious opinions or belief, but all men shall be free to profess and by argument to maintain, their opinions in matters of religion

Funny how this completely contradicts the idea that you could be punished for refusing to participate in a gay wedding. (for instance, by selling them a cake.)

Quotes from our founding fathers:

"It is the duty of all nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey His will, to be grateful for His benefits, and humbly to implore His protection and favor."

-George Washington

"We have this day [Fourth of July] restored the Sovereign to whom all men ought to be obedient. He reigns in Heaven, and from the rising to the setting of the sun, let His Kingdom come."

-Samuel Adams

"The rights of the colonists as Christians…may be best understood by reading and carefully studying the institutes of the Great Law Giver and Head of the Christian Church, which are to be found clearly written and promulgated in the New Testament."

-Samuel Adams

"The Declaration of Independence laid the cornerstone of human government upon the first precepts of Christianity."

-John Adams

"The highest glory of the American Revolution was this: it connected, in one indissoluble bond, the principles of civil government with the principles of Christianity."

-John Adams

"Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is their duty – as well as privilege and interest – of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers."

-John Jay (first Chief Justice of the Supreme Court)

“The only foundation for . . . a republic is to be laid in Religion. Without this there can be no virtue, and without virtue there can be no liberty, and liberty is the object and life of all republican governments.”

–Benjamin Franlin

“The rights essential to happiness. . . . We claim them from a higher source — from the King of kings and Lord of all the earth.”

-John Dickenson

"God who gave us life gave us liberty. Can the liberties of a nation be secure when we have removed a conviction that these liberties are the gift of God? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, that His justice cannot sleep forever."

- Thomas Jefferson

“I verily believe Christianity necessary to the support of civil society. One of the beautiful boasts of our municipal jurisprudence is that Christianity is a part of the Common Law … There never has been a period in which the Common Law did not recognize Christianity as lying its foundations.”

-Joseph Story (Supreme Court Justice)

"And whereas it is the duty of nations as well as of men, to own their dependence upon the overruling power of God … and to recognize the sublime truth, announced in the Holy Scriptures and proven by all history, that those nations only are blessed whose God is the Lord."

-Abraham Lincoln

I could keep on going. The majority of the founding fathers were Protestant Christians and there is a wealth of quotes to choose from. I simply wanted to share these because they seemed to me to be the most profound.

It should be apparent to anyone who is not biased, that the United States was founded on Christian principles, and from the beginning has been a Christian nation. The United States Supreme Court has even ruled on this issue:

“Our laws and our institutions must necessarily be based upon and embody the teachings of the Redeemer of mankind. It is impossible that it should be otherwise; and in this sense and to this extent our civilization and our institutions are emphatically Christian…This is a Christian nation”

– United States Supreme Court Decision in Church of the Holy Trinity v. United States, 1892

Again, I ask that NLBS no longer be treated as the special snowflake in regards to threads on ATS. It is clearly biased and only used as a soapbox for the opinions of it's OP.

a reply to: peskyhumans

Reply threads to existing threads are against T&C at least one other has been 404ed. If you have issue with what was presented in that thread then post it there.

Also, if you are going to post quotes you should also post links. I have a feeling all of that is a copy paste from some Christian website.

pretty good post OP

I disagree with you but good all the same

However!

why not just post that it the aforementioned thread.

"I am a real Christian – that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus Christ."
--The Writings of Thomas Jefferson, p. 385.


"Now I will avow, that I then believe, and now believe, that those general Principles of Christianity, are as eternal and immutable, as the Existence and Attributes of God; and that those Principles of Liberty, are as unalterable as human Nature and our terrestrial, mundane System."
--Adams wrote this on June 28, 1813, excerpt from a letter to Thomas Jefferson.

a reply to: peskyhumans

I'll just leave this here.

Make of it what you will.

en.wikipedia.org...

Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen [Muslims]; and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan [Muslim] nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.

"Our Founding Fathers were not Christians

If the U.S. was founded on the Christian religion, the Constitution would clearly say so--but it does not. Nowhere does the Constitution say: "The United States is a Christian Nation", or anything even close to that. In fact, the words "Jesus Christ, Christianity, Bible, Creator, Divine, and God" are never mentioned in the Constitution-- not even once. Nowhere in the Constitution is religion mentioned, except in exclusionary terms. When the Founders wrote the nation's Constitution, they specified that "no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States." (Article 6, section 3) This provision was radical in its day-- giving equal citizenship to believers and non-believers alike. They wanted to ensure that no religion could make the claim of being the official, national religion, such as England had".
freethought.mbdojo.com...

originally posted by: Grimpachi
a reply to: peskyhumans

REply threads to existing threads are against T&C at least one other has been 404ed. If you have issue with what was presented in that thread then post it there.

In my most humble opinion the information which the OP has presented deserves its own thread for several reasons. If they were to post this information in the other thread it would just get lost and not get the attention that it deserves.

The OP did a great job at pointing out many things that came to my mind during the most recent episode. I admire the courage of the OP as I was thinking of authoring a similar thread but did not wan't to "rock the boat".

Let's hope site ownership is able to take constructive criticism and acknowledge what the OP has countered, I would be deeply disappointed if this thread gets trashed.

FFS we've even gone to war over the word of god.

Remember George Bush?

God told him - LMAO!

a reply to: peskyhumans

Favoritism is sickening no matter where you find it. I believe the threads on the front page should be judged on there merit only. To cater to anyone's cause because of their position or popularity. Is to sell out to the masses in my opinion.

a reply to: real_one

In my most humble opinion the information in this thread deserves its own thread.

That is almost exactly what someone said about another reply thread to NLBS thread that has since been 404ed.

Read the T&C.

originally posted by: peskyhumans
The United States is, and has always been, A Christian Nation.

It lays somewhere in the middle as the majority of the Founding Fathers understood that their personal religious beliefs were separate from the government they were forming.

I linked a very good article in a previous thread that goes into detail on the Founders and explains that while many were indeed Christian but also shared an 'Enlightenment rationalism' that allowed them to keep their beliefs from co-mingling with legislation.

Additionally, there is no mention of Jesus in any of our founding documents and this was a conscious effort by the Founders not to include him. If they wanted to found a Christian nation they could have easily done so.

a reply to: peskyhumans

Note that it specifically says in the Year of our Lord and not Anno Domini which is Latin for "in the Year of the Lord". See the difference? The U.S. Constitution acknowledges Jesus (who is the Lord) as OUR Lord, and not THE Lord which is how it's used in the Latin term Anno Domini. This is not a secular usage of Anno Domini.

Anno Domini
1570s, Latin, literally "in the year of (our) Lord."

Anno Domini

Unfortunately, the Constitution does not reference any Christian god.

Using the name of God or quoting the bible is not the same as being Christian.

George Washington went out of his way on many occasions to NOT talk about his faith. Some in fact even questioned whether he was even a Christian. He understood. Read Washington A Life. Great book. You'll be more impressed with him than ever. Great man.

I quote Shakespear all the time. that doesn't mean I'm a shakespitian or what ever religion that might make me.

USA was never a Christian Nation and never will be. Carry on.

originally posted by: Grimpachi
a reply to: real_one

In my most humble opinion the information in this thread deserves its own thread.

That is almost exactly what someone said about another reply thread to NLBS thread that has since been 404ed.

Read the T&C.

I've read the T&C.

When I'm in need of a rent-a-mod I'll send you a U2U



Great thread OP.

Looking forward to member feedback

Wikipedia disagrees with you

The United States does not have an official religion at either the federal or state level. There are some traditional customs such as the use of a Bible when taking oaths in court, or for the President of the United States during the oath of office, but neither of these are required or codified by law. The First Amendment to the United States Constitution is written as "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances" and is held to be applied to the various U.S. states via the Fourteenth Amendment. Furthermore, Article Six of the United States Constitution prohibits the use of any religious test as qualification for any public office. Nevertheless, the official motto of the United States is "In God we trust", adopted in 1956. There are some U.S. states with laws that would prevent atheists from holding office, such as Arkansas, Maryland, Mississippi, Pennsylvania, Tennessee, South Carolina, and Texas. However, these laws are void and unenforceable because they are superseded by the Sixth article of the U.S. Constitution, which forbids them

en.wikipedia.org...

Religion has no place in the government, to be citizen there is no need of a religion, are you going to enforce the religion to all citizens or are you just going to discriminate and make second class those that does not share your believes, even as they fulfill all requirements to be one of you.

What the Founders did or did not believe is of little consequence in our modern era. They lived during the Enlightenment, prior to the Industrial Revolution; they had no concept of modern technology, modern ethics, or modern philosophy. Besides which, just because Thomas Jefferson or Benjamin Franklin or John Adams may or may not have believed a thing has absolutely no bearing on whether or not I should believe that thing. I'm rather sick of this hero worship Americans have for the Founders, as if they were some long-extinct breed of Superior Human. They were men -- flawed men -- like all men. No better and no worse in their natural constitutions.

What matters is not what the Founders envisioned; they are dead, and we owe them nothing. We certainly do not owe them more allegiance or deference than we owe one another, because we at least are alive, which is something that cannot be said of any of the Founders.

What we do owe is our allegiance to the ideals championed and fought for by the Founders -- not some silly Christian theocracy by any stretch of any reasonable imagination, but a wholly secular nation where all faiths are treated with the amount of respect they deserve. No faith, no creed, deserves more or less deference than any other, which is precisely why the First Amendment absolutely prohibits Congress from making any law whatsoever respecting "an establishment of religion." That means regardless of what the Founders or anyone else believes in, the US shall not be defined by religion, period. You can make a case for or against the personal religious convictions of any one of them, but the fact remains in plain, universal law: neither their religion, nor yours, nor anyone else's has any inherent legal status beyond your individual right to pursue it.

It is also why Article VI, paragraph 3 of the Constitution proper absolutely prohibits any elected office in the land from being subject to any religious test. That is, it is forbidden to require any particular religious persuasion as a prerequisite to public office, which is certainly a limitation no one in favor of theocracy would have allowed.

Now, every time some disgruntled person starts making a claim for the supremacy of a particular religion, an argument for the supremacy of a particular nationality, race, sexual orientation, and/or taste in music is never far behind. So let's assume for a moment that the US was, in fact, a Christian nation as you (erroneously) suggest. What then? So the Ten Commandments are plastered on every public building and every oath of office is required to be taken on the Bible. Is that all you want? Or is there something that the establishment of Christianity as the supreme law of the land would allow the government to do, that it cannot do now because it cannot use Christianity as a justifcation?

In short, I understand you're a Christian and I think that's super. The real question is, who is it that you are in favor of putting in camps?

James Madison, the person most-responsible for getting all the states to ratify the constitution, said the following while President, putting it on the official record: "The civil government functions with complete success by the total separation of the Church from the State.”

It's a good thing that we have people of today who know more than the founders themselves. You can find just as many statements where the founders are against religion in government. The founders were for a persons right to practice whatever religion they wanted but were against basing the nation on any one type of religion. Why is this so hard for Christians to understand?

originally posted by: ColeYounger
"I am a real Christian – that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus Christ."
--The Writings of Thomas Jefferson, p. 385.


"Now I will avow, that I then believe, and now believe, that those general Principles of Christianity, are as eternal and immutable, as the Existence and Attributes of God; and that those Principles of Liberty, are as unalterable as human Nature and our terrestrial, mundane System."
--Adams wrote this on June 28, 1813, excerpt from a letter to Thomas Jefferson.

Jefferson also edited the New Testament and removed all the magical things Jesus did. What kind of Christian would do that?

originally posted by: vexati0n
...
In short, I understand you're a Christian and I think that's super. The real question is, who is it that you are in favor of putting in camps?