Putin's Propaganda Machine.

originally posted by: mSparks43
a reply to: dragonridr

What's that got to do with making anything up?

Russia recognised the dpr and is providing them arms and training.

That's neither a secret or denied or anything to do with any propaganda other than the west trying to blame it on putin.

They've even given reuters roughly where they've stationed troops.

No they deny they have troops stationed in Ukraine again you can't read your own information you posted. But at least we are on the same page Russian troops are fighting Ukraine. So your making progress. Now you think it's ok for these russian troops to be in Ukraine fighting. See that is called an invasion. AN INVASION OCCURS WHEN A COUNTRY SENDS TROOPS ACROSS YOUR BORDER AND ATTACKS YOU.

So now that we've proven russians are fighting and dying in Ukraine it's time for them to leave. Putin is really going to hatr it if he escalates this further the next step is giving Ukraine the means to fight back. And Russia thought afganistan was bad imagine how close the Ukrainians are to moscow. This will get really messy if heavy equipment become involved. Russia will take massive losses.

a reply to: dragonridr

you do understand that map doesn't show any russian military presence in the ukraine?

at least from a russian perspective.



since Luhansk and donetsk are independant nation's being invaded by the ukraine.


the self proclaimed government in the ukraine isn't going to be invading anyone for much longer. they have no support and are not far off going bankrupt.

a reply to: mSparks43

m.youtube.com...

And as soon as this is put on a video...

Kiev junta’s genocide

No need to watch it as it already shows the bias this uploader has, so it isn't going to do anything but blame Ukraine without having proof to back the claim.

fortruss.blogspot.co.uk...

Seriously...

fortruss blogspot...how about something a bit more credible.

Using that source sure is interesting.

a reply to: mSparks43

since Luhansk and donetsk are independant nation's being invaded by the ukraine.

When did that happen, because both of those regions are still in Ukraine and are still part of Ukraine.

And they would be autonomous areas in Ukraine...they wouldn't be considered a nation.

And you can't invade your own country.

the self proclaimed government in the ukraine isn't going to be invading anyone for much longer. they have no support and are not far off going bankrupt.

You mean the government that was democratically elected by the people of Ukraine, which then also had elections for the Parliament that was democratically done...so learn something about what your talking about, because it looks like you have no clue.

And again how does one invade their own country...they are already there.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

->When did that happen.

Yes, a recap is definitely in order. -> right at the beginning of the conflict.

Eastern Europeans absolutely totally care about not being forced to accept homosexuality. that excludes them from participation in the EU project.
and why the fact that the majority of eastern Ukrainians identify themselves as Russians is so important to the situation.
13 May 2014
www.independent.co.uk...

No sooner had the Peoples’ Republic of Donetsk declared its unilateral declaration of independence from Ukraine, that its leaders asked to be ruled by the Kremlin.

We've still not established what you think these lies are. Only thing we've got is "he's saying troops aren't in the Ukraine".
Which is actually kinda true since they recognised the DNR/DPR but others havent.

originally posted by: mSparks43
a reply to: dragonridr

are you saying we need to recap the thread again..... Go ahead. I'll wait till we've added the gazprom connection to Isis in more detail.
I'll start with Where exactly do you think the know how, logistics and anti air capability for this

www.theguardian.com...

The militants control around half a dozen oil-producing oilfields. They were quickly able to make them operational and then tapped into established trading networks across northern Iraq, where smuggling has been a fact of life for years. From early July until late October, most of this oil went to Iraqi Kurdistan.[Gazprom Neft]

Comes from?
because a quick google of gazprom neft shows all that to be their oil network.

It's probably worth pointing out, since I've seen so much BS about it, that the price of Brent/WTI oil (seven sisters raw crude) is not really that relevant to the Russian economy. if anything low crude prices are a positive, since they are inputs, and low input prices boosts your economy. (and Gazprom neft takes raw crude wherever it can get it, and sells refined product)

Putin is a politician right?

Why should anyone care about him not telling the truth?

It's not like telling the truth is something that is expected of politicians. But you almost sound surprised. and So far you haven't actually demonstrated any evidence of him not telling the truth.

October/Novermber 2014
www.bbc.co.uk...

Ukraine crisis: Russia to recognise rebel vote in Donetsk and Luhansk

originally posted by: dragonridr
You think that election was fair??

originally posted by: mSparks43
a reply to: dragonridr

Well, since it is widely accepted that the majority of the population in those areas consider themselves Russian rather than Ukrainian.
rigged or not. It would seem to represent the views of the population.

originally posted by: mSparks43
a reply to: dragonridr

UK revokes Iranian network's license
edition.cnn.com...

UK head of state has Dementia and Incontinence.
au.ibtimes.com...

BBC write up of the events in the Ukraine.
www.bbc.co.uk...


.Sergey Glazyev, has one of his interviews translated into English
nationalinterest.org...

Putin isn't party to the Geneva convention.

originally posted by: yuppa
Ah so then all the treaties and deals made with the USSR are not applicable then right? START can go,SO can the deal to not build up NATO around it too. Space weaponsare also fair game. And since they arent Geneva convention observers anymore their troops are classified as Non combatants and Illegal combatants if they are armed. No need for a trial or capture since under the conventions WE can kill them outright.

Russian mobilisation order from that presentation, 27th June 2014
graph.document.kremlin.ru...
www.bbc.co.uk...

Russian parliament approves troop deployment in Ukraine

"official" rule in the Ukraine now seems to be held by really bad people with guns.

guys like this

en.m.wikipedia.org...


Ukraine’s neo-Nazi leader becomes top military adviser, legalizes fighters

Ukraine crisis: Tension over rise of nationalist Yarosh

R ight Sector negotiates joining Ukrainian Army as independent division under Yarosh command

War with Russia Now Much Likelier: Ukraine’s Leading Nazi Dimitri Yarosh Gets American Weapons and Support

Interpol puts Ukrainian ultranationalist Yarosh on wanted list

www.haaretz.com...

originally posted by: mSparks43
a reply to: dragonridr

What's to be shocked about?

->In fact, it turned out that Russian officer themselves cut swastika on his skin

Press freedom in russia
en.m.wikipedia.org...


___
And move a little into the probable future
www.smh.com.au...

USA Today sat down with two DNR policemen who admitted they cannot implement law and order in the city.
www.usatoday.com...

Some people are confused about the role of the head of state:
en.wikipedia.org...
In the United Kingdom, only the monarch has the power to declare war and peace

originally posted by: mSparks43
a reply to: dragonridr

You posted
www.theguardian.com...

and you don't know who HBGary are.....
Oh well, just for everyone else who isn't employed by them:
www.dailykos.com...

As for Operation Fortitude
Wikipedia has a lovely write up for you.
brush up on your history a little
en.wikipedia.org...

Blackwater changes their name
academiwatch.com...
400 of them in the Ukraine
rt.com...

Ukraine and Greece expected to go bankrupt in June

people in eastern Ukraine did not want to cope with revolution that has brought to power radical, anti russian elements.
they voted for their independence in that case. Every one on this board should understand and respect that.
If current government was elected normaly as was planned then no problem, you get what you vote for and if majority points to certain leader, minority has to consider and wait for next electioion to make it their way.

Until then, people in DNR and LNR are fighting for their lives. Other wise they will be 'assimilated' bandera style.

Today's Kiev leaders are puppets. US puppets. This is visible as all possible peaceful means of resolving conflict are being ignored by Kiev. Ask what does US of A wants in that region? Have folk murder each other there and as an asset to have geo political territory.

Ukraine will be broken into pieces via total bankruptcy where the war is paving road to achieve that quickest way possible.

I am writing this post not to hypocrites yelling 'take Russian troops out' so Kiev can murder those who disagree with military coup but to those who wondered into this thread to 'make up' their own mind. I know these readers are here.

I speak as a person who has close ties to Ukraine in both parts, who listens and watches both 'propaganda' machines at work and who is left with clear understanding on the conflict.

We are human beings, must care for each other. Dirty plot is visible in every step Kiev takes giving away lethal agenda US elite has.

US propaganda makes it sound like people in Easter Ukraine are being held hostages to Russian troops who, as they say, are occupying them. Now, why Kiev imposes economical blockade to the region if they consider them hostages?

As far as I know, hostages should be helped at any cost, not killed.

Sorry, topic does discuss other issues but I thought it would be a good place to remind all visitors about genocide going on in Ukraine.


DO.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h
its called parallel construction.

en.m.wikipedia.org...

@darkorange

a reply to: darkorange

the voting wasnt free or fair according to every other country observing it liek in Crimeas elections so they will never be recognized.

Sadly, Our media and politicians do the same exact stuff. The only difference is we more aware of this bullcrap they try to pull, so it ain't as easy to do a fast one on us. But look at bush after the 9/11 attacks, he did the same thing.

a reply to: darkorange

Love how people like to leave out small details when they tell their stories. First when the Ukrainianian president fled in the middle of the night. Ironically taking the time to load a cargo plane had a lot of stuff to take with him. Then when they find out he fled the country they declare they need to have a new election they did and even putin recognized it. So reality is gar different from propaganda. Either way at this point the ligimate government under attack by foreign terrorists. Since apparently these are not supposed to be their according to putin. These terrorists started out the same as crimea took over police stations to remove civil control and establish their authority.

If you believe the people had any say in this your fooling yourself. Wouldn't even allow them to vote in Ukrainian elections actually destroying polling areas. In their election they had no voter list could vote online opened polling areas in Russia had armed terrorists in the voting area. Lets think if I was a Ukrainian or against the russian takeover if I'm going to go there and vote. Of course not however even polls done didn't play out with the voting results surprise huh. Even in Crimea the Russian govt admitted the vote was a fraud.

Should anyone be surprised it played out this way of c ourselves not Georgia the same cards were played problem is Ukraine is mire stubborn then Georgia they aren't giving up.

a reply to: yuppa

so what's your opinion of the Ukrainian national Guard shooting the people who were trying to vote in the second video.

originally posted by: mSparks43
a reply to: yuppa

so what's your opinion of the Ukrainian national Guard shooting the people who were trying to vote in the second video.

It was reported by life news so let's just say they are less than a credible source. They had been caught making up stories for broadcast.

www.stopfake.org...

a reply to: dragonridr

no. the video recorded by the people trying to vote.

the bit where they are saying "just let us in to vote Facist pigs"
then the guy in the ukrainian nation guard uniform puts a bullet through that guys head and retreats in inside the building.


Does this mean then you dont think the BBC counts as a credible source?
www.stopfake.org...
or
CNN
www.stopfake.org...
or
www.stopfake.org...

Your basically saying its all lies yes?
Pretty much agree.
I'm much more interested in what's going to happen when these neo nazi groups just made official in the Ukraine government don't get paid when the government goes bankrupt.

At least the separatists are getting all their arms "for free".

originally posted by: mSparks43
a reply to: dragonridr

no. the video recorded by the people trying to vote.

the bit where they are saying "just let us in to vote Facist pigs"
then the guy in the ukrainian nation guard uniform puts a bullet through that guys head and retreats in inside the building.


Does this mean then you dont think the BBC counts as a credible source?
www.stopfake.org...
or
CNN
www.stopfake.org...
or
www.stopfake.org...

Your basically saying its all lies yes?
Pretty much agree.
I'm much more interested in what's going to happen when these neo nazi groups just made official in the Ukraine government don't get paid when the government goes bankrupt.

At least the separatists are getting all their arms "for free".

You don't read stuff you post so you they are agreeing with the BBC reporting but 5 hanks for proving my point russian tv lies and bbc has been close to the truth. I say close because some of their reports rely on russian tv. But hey glad to see you coming around. Oh and the video wasn't just someone off the street it was a news crew. Bug argument if it was faked you know like they did claiming the little girl was killed. No girl it was a false report. See problem is that was rebel held territory and idly no ukrainian forces anywhere near their at the time. If they were would have been more than a couple of guys blocking an entrance. Bit I know you can't use logic can you.

a reply to: dragonridr

so all the voting occurred without incident then.

well. at least that finally implies that you agree donbas and Luhansk are no longer part of the ukraine.
so I guess what putin should really be saying is there is no russian troops inside new ukraine.

yet.
oh wait. that is what him and Merkel agreed.

mpsh.ru...

my guess is he'll wait until the new ukraine government starts defaulting on its debt.

a reply to: mSparks43

well. at least that finally implies that you agree donbas and Luhansk are no longer part of the ukraine.

And yet they are...In fact Russia thinks they should stay as part of Ukraine...so obviously they still are part of Ukraine and will stay part of it...but they will more than likely be an autonomous part of Ukraine, which means they will still be considered a part of Ukraine but be like a US state that has it's own state government, but has to abide by federal laws also.

Just like Crimea had done before being annexed by Russia.

Moscow wants Ukraine to carry out a constitutional reform to allow more autonomy to Russian-speaking eastern regions that would then stay with Kiev, Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said in comments published on Monday.

In an interview with the Interfax news agency, Lavrov said Ukraine needed a constitutional reform "with the participation of all regions and all political powers" that would allow the two rebellious eastern regions to remain part of the country.

www.reuters.com...

Seems you may want to update your thinking about the Eastern part of Ukraine and what they are doing in regards to leaving Ukraine...or in reality not leaving Ukraine.

mpsh.ru...

The hysteria in Ukraine: "Merkel and Putin signed a new pact" Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact! "

I have to ask how they signed a new pact that was originally signed in 1939 by Hitler and Stalin?

The Minsk deal is not the same as what was signed in 1939, but feel free to show how it is, and how the Minsk agreement is the same pact that was signed in 39?

Germany, France - agree with Putin.

On a ceasefire, but your source seems to leave that part out...I wonder why?

Wait I know why...Russian media.

oh wait. that is what him and Merkel agreed.

And where did they agree that no Russian troops are in Ukraine...because it doesn't. You really didn't read your source did you?

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

->In fact Russia thinks they should stay as part of Ukraine

Erm, not sure soil rock and water think much of anything. Also not convinced, even if they did, that you would be particularily qualified to read their thoughts.

but if they did, it would probably be something like this:

I have someone more evil than Putin.Here is a file photo.



Now there is a evil genius.

a reply to: mSparks43

Eastern Europeans absolutely totally care about not being forced to accept homosexuality.

And who forced anyone to accept that, as it is your right if you don't accept it.

that excludes them from participation in the EU project.

And you can provide evidence that this is true?

.Sergey Glazyev, has one of his interviews translated into English
nationalinterest.org...

I find this to be funny...

Sergey Glazyev: First, I would like to say that Russia did not use force in Crimea; fortunately, there was no need of that because the Crimeans handled the situation themselves.

Well for one thing that is a lie, because his boss even admitted to Russian troops taking over Crimea...you know the ones he sent there for the sole purpose of annexing Crimea.

For the first time, Putin acknowledged that the well-armed soldiers in unmarked uniforms who took over Ukraine's Crimean Peninsula were Russian. He seemed annoyed, however, by the widespread description of them as "little green men" and asked people to avoid the term. He said the troops — who he claimed acted "politely, but resolutely and professionally" — were needed to lay the ground for the referendum that led to Crimea joining Russia. Putin said the annexation of Crimea was

www.huffingtonpost.com...

As for freedom of the media and free speech...

www.aljazeera.com...

www.theguardian.com...

freedomhouse.org...-4TIU

USA Today sat down with two DNR policemen who admitted they cannot implement law and order in the city.

They can thank Mr. Putin for that problem.

Some people are confused about the role of the head of state:
en.wikipedia.org...
In the United Kingdom, only the monarch has the power to declare war and peace

Seems you are to...

One of the last great riddles of the British political system was solved yesterday when the powers wielded by the government in the name of the monarchy were set down on paper for the first time.
The "veil of mystery" surrounding the royal prerogative was lifted when a list of them was published in a move intended to encourage greater transparency.

The prerogative, which includes the power to declare war, is handed from monarchs to ministers and allows them to take action without the backing of parliament.

In a move intended to encourage greater accountability, the Commons public administration committee (PAC) published a list of the little-understood powers which it persuaded Sir Hayden Phillips, permanent secretary to the Department of Constitutional Affairs, to supply.

www.theguardian.com...

Blackwater changes their name
academiwatch.com...
400 of them in the Ukraine
rt.com...

Well that is because they are in no way affiliated with Blackwater...and that has been proven more than once.

You need a better source as the troops that are in Ukraine are there to train the Ukraine military...none of them are engaged in the fight, and they were asked to be there by the Ukraine government, but of course RT won't tell you the truth.

And they can blame Mr. Putin for that lie.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Yey, back on topic

originally posted by: mSparks43
a reply to: dragonridr

And leprechauns wait with pots of gold for you at the end of the rainbow.

meanwhile. in the real world. eastern Europe has become less tolerant.
you think the anti homosexuality laws in russia came from anything other than public demand?

are all the Polish fighting with police over the issue also victims of putin lies?

They are trying to frame the issue as "You don't have to accept gay marraige"
enpi-info.eu...

The actual issue is they want homosexuality to remain illegal. Which is incompatible with fundamental EU legislation.

Crimea:
Agree it's a bending of the truth.
But Crimea was unquestionably a peaceful revolution (yes/no?) so I don't think "the Crimeans handled the situation themselves." is really that far from the truth. They wanted it, they got it.
Is there any evidence of the people of Crimea begging to not be part of Russia and taking up arms over the situation to defend themselves?

Freedom of the media/free speach.
While I agree it's a long way from ideal.
My impression of all those links is "it's now as bad as in the west".
With the only real difference being, In the East you aren't allowed to promote homosexuality, and in the west you aren't allowed to spread "hate" for homosexuality.

Blackwater not Acedemi
Proved more than once where?
en.wikipedia.org...

a "new senior management" does not change the important facts:
they are a bunch of hired militia who do not answer to anyone but the senior management.
Their staff are well known for driving round shooting anyone they feel like with impunity. (the successful court case against them is one out of thousands of failed ones, changing their name left their victims with no recourse)
Their employment is (should be) illegal under the geneva convention.

Royal Prerogative
Your link quite clearly states

Full list of those powers
....
Foreign Affairs

The making of treaties;

Declaration of war;

Deployment of armed forces overseas;

Recognition of foreign states;

Accreditation and reception of diplomats.

where
define: royal prerogative = the right of the sovereign, which in British law is theoretically subject to no restriction.

In practice, The Prime minister takes responsibility for her decision, in order to deflect attention when things go wrong.
The Best/most recent example being Tony Blair & Iraq