Religion isn't growing, it is becoming vigorous in its demise, says philosopher AC Grayling

I thought this was an interesting read

LI NK

It often seems as though religion is bigger than ever, being at the root of so many of the world's conflicts, but philosopher and author of Against All Gods Anthony Grayling thinks this is paradoxically a sign that it is in its 'death throes'.

Discussing the apparent growth of both atheism and religion in an old episode of the Philosophy Bites podcast, still poignant today, he said: "I don't think myself that we're seeing a resurgence of religion, I think we're seeing a turning up of the volume mightily by the religious, which is something different.

"It may very well be a sympton of the fact that religion feels so under pressure that it's doing what it did back in the 16th century at the time of the Reformation when Catholicism, which had been the single dominent outlook, became very vigorous in its demise. These were death throes that caused those awful wars in the 16th and 17th centuries because they were losing their power and struggling to keep it."

He suggested that the cleaving away of religious and secular lifestyles could also be a factor.

"It may very well be that now with globalisation and the fact that the Islamic parts of the world felt very under pressure, very threatened by the rapid sense of what must seem to them awful morality off the back of western style globalisation, that the volume and the irritation and the frustration has ratcheted up."

Earlier in the week, a new poll revealed that the UK is one of the least religious countries in the world, with 53% of people describing themselves as 'not religious'.

I see the rise of communism and the religion of atheism....go figure

a reply to: defiythelie

Just as foretold.

2 Timothy 4:3-4

3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

King James Version (KJV)

a reply to: defiythelie

Where are your thoughts on the subject?

Anyway, I agree with the article. It's not just apparent in Islam, though. It's seen in Christianity, as well. With all the anti-gay rights and anti-abortion legislation, it's clear that the Christian organizations are doing everything they can to "be more vigorous" is their attempt to keep power.

I talked about it here, relating it to dog training: www.abovetopsecret.com...

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic
When a dog has been allowed to get away with something for some time and then the owner decides to change that behavior, the dog experiences what we call an "extinction burst". For example, if a dog has been permitted to jump on people for attention when he's a puppy (because it's cute), as he grows, it becomes an undesirable behavior. When the owner tries to change the behavior by ignoring it and NOT giving attention, the dog becomes very forceful and relentless in jumping and will jump more than ever for a while, trying to get that attention, until he realizes that he's not getting the desired outcome (attention) and he eventually stops. That's an extinction burst. As the behavior extinguishes, there's a burst (blitzkrieg) of the behavior.

I believe that's what we're seeing in the religious/gay situation. For many years, religious folks have been in the majority as regards the view of homosexuality. Only relatively recently has it been unclassified as a mental illness and more and more people are accepting it and working toward equal rights for gay people. Gay people are getting married now, having children, living normal lives, they're in commercials and on TV shows... They're everywhere! Now that religion isn't getting its way anymore and can no longer deny equal rights to gay people, they're working harder and harder to make things the way they used to be. Extinction burst.

a reply to: stosh64

I don't know if its so much fortold but an outcome of the church losing its power if it ever did.

Like if i wrote revised torah, which is what the new testament is. Would i leave anything out that would threaten my strangle hold on believes from my already borrowed and mutilated religion?

If i was the pope of rome probably. But im not the pope and i didn't write a remodeled torah either.

I do preach about aliens tho which is the truth. At least i can bridge the gap between science and religion that has been carved by centries of both beliefs digging the hole that generated the gap.

a reply to: defiythelie

All the Earth's religions are either shrinking or keeping pace with population growth except one

On another note, i don't consider myself an Atheist. But i don't consider myself religious either. Because what i believe in there is no church for, no organized religion for it.

Because my beliefs get very specific, and non of the current alien churches fall into my belief system.

Making me non religious? But spiritual i guess? I don't know. Hey look that makes one of these statistics i guess.

well actually Judaism and Christianity sorta have some beliefs i believe in just other people don't accept it.

Cuz the truth behind both is they worship a shapeshifting god who creates angels from humans and these angels are also shapeshifters that travel around in wheel discs, called saucers in modern daytimes.

The books make heavy references to the Sphinx and to sphinx like beasts being the angels that god commands ect.

Only the truth of the matter has been mutilated which is why i don't choose to associate with it because everything christians teach and jews teach now is a lie.

I used to be a Christian but meh. You guys can keep your humanlike people with wings floating in clouds without technology and il stick with what i KNOW is reality.

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic
a reply to: defiythelie

Where are your thoughts on the subject?

I think there is kind of an ebb and flow happening. Certain places are becoming less religious while other are becoming more. As a whole I think we are witnessing a time when the major religions of the world will have to either change with the times or fall to new ideas and most likely new religions. It has happen many times in the past where religious have died out and will happen again at some point.

originally posted by: stosh64
a reply to: defiythelie

Just as foretold.

2 Timothy 4:3-4

3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

King James Version (KJV)

Very well put. And the Qur'an states almost the same.... But there is nothing in natural universe that I know of that grows stronger as it declines .

What a wonderful world it would be.

a reply to: gottaknow

The world would be pretty much the same as it is now, just with different logos on the banners.

I agree with the premise suggested, and I think it is something of a new social facet. That is, the appearance of great numbers by determined vocal minorities. While Christianity may be one of the world's largest religions, the individuals most people take issue with are a proportionally smaller group of zealots. Of course, most members simply follow the narrative, but that can be said for every social group in existence.

Ye Olde Christianity is certainly dwindling, hopefully that leads to growth and progress.. But when one control mechanism is going away, it's replacement has generally been designed decades in advance.

a reply to: Serdgiam

Sorry. I can only picture a world with a renewed dedication to rational thinking. Scientific tech exploding over time. People realizing that this is their one go around to enjoy themselves and acting upon that realization. A purposeful community driven towards embetterment. Possibly even equality as people realize that it's not a sin to fight against the wealthy and government control.

There's always going to be suffering but, you take religion out of the equation and there's no denying that a great deal of suffering that currently stems from religious beliefs would no longer be an issue. There could well be a time of upheaval but it would eventually level the playing field.

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

Everytime I read a post by you, there is always something in it defending the 'gays'.

Why do you akways bring them into any conversation?

As to the OP... I guess only time will tell if all the Religious fanatica stuff will die out..

I was raised abusively religious. And I would have died for my faith, but the internet has made the Ancient dead sea scrolls, Nag Hammadi texts, the earliest codex bibles, the writings of Josephes, and a slew of others, available for anyone to read, and what I found changed my whole belief system. The bibles written after the 3rd century were added to. There were like over 35,000 changes in the 3rd century. The books they left out of the bible, also scream a totally different message.

So, much crap has been inserted through the efforts to keep the masses controlled. The most damming of all is who the Apostate Paul was and that he wrote most of the new testament. I found that if I were to really believe in Jesus, then I would become a Jew. Jesus was a practicing Jew until he died. Paul merged the Mithras traditions with the Christ traditions. Jesus didnt say stop the sabbath, feasts, washing, etc etc, it was Paul who decided to change all that. So, if you are a christian, then you are really a follower of Paul.

Personally, I dont think a person, with a thinking brain, and who is really seeking truth, can read and study the ancient texts and learn about history, without it shattering long held religious Belief Systems or BS as I call it now.
The truth is destroying religions hold on people. I wish I knew, what I know now, 30 years ago. My life would be much different.

originally posted by: borntowatch
I see the rise of communism and the religion of atheism....go figure

Rejection of belief isn't a religion and communism isn't a guaranteed byproduct of atheism. That is unless you consider Socialism and Communism the same thing, but if you think that then you have a LONG way to go in your political education. But hey, Socialism isn't even guaranteed to be an outcome of atheism. Many countries in Europe as well as the US practice a hybridization of capitalism and Socialism that seems to be the best of both worlds (while admittedly creating new ones).

reply to: stosh64
Of course the Apostate Paul would say that. It was used to keep the masses from questioning their BS (Belief System). Fear, guilt, shame the church is really good at keeping people from seeking truth for fear of reprisal.
The Catholic Church has added and taken away soooooooo much in the 66 allowed books of the bible, and all Christian Religions are offsprings of the Catholic Church. If you are a Christian then you follow the teachings of Paul, not Jesus.

a reply to: defiythelie

He obviously has not travelled much, there are more christian's alive today than at any other time in history, the fast pace and hollow inhuman way of life that is force on people in the so called developed world leave's them tired and often seeking fast pleasure, this distract's them from religion as does the simple fact it is seen as unfashionable to believe in god.

I disagree with him and believe the church as well as other competing religion's are undergoing a very powerful revival at the moment, many who would be productive member's of society but are not due to this lack of a faith and lack of social interaction at this very human level and are then actually thus being snared by religions and belief's alien to themselves often leading them into occult, fundementalism and even terrorism in the west and elsewhere as like a leaderless sheep they are being led astray due to the secular and anti theist society's we live in today, the only reason they are anti theist is because for most people money is now there god and they have sold there soul's for a quick buck, or to be more precise they have starved there soul's and those of there children by putting the relgion out of there live's, they had it in there own early life but did not take into account the impact of it's absence would have in there society's and there children's live's..

Without the moral framework and structure a religon provide's politicians in such society's feel more free to take very unhealthy action's that are detrimental to there own people for bribes or financial concerns as in the UK and US today were money and the wallet are there real god while the faith of those who built these nation's up is being shamedly destroyed.

This guy's opinion though is simply wrong.

Without Religion there is simply too much of a gap in the human psyche, we need God in our live's and without it when all the bad thing's happen that we are powerless against were do we turn, so even those raised outside of religion often find it and will continue to but those who have it often take it for granted never really understanding how important it is to there live's, many try to plug the gap with meditation and philosophy but that is a hollow path and still lack's social impact that only a religion can provide to bind community's together in a cohesive and healthy fashion - when it is good religion with peaceful intent that is.

Just as the Maya carved us, "The Beginning of a New Era" The emerging of 'Yin, The Devine Feminine' Organized religion™ along with politics and military are patriarchal, a.k.a. "Mr. Yang"..

Because Mr. Yang has more than His fair share of a Napoleanic complex, He is kicking and screaming on His way out, Stage Left. Instead of just taking His balls and going home, He must throw a fit and act like a child...

Worship = War Ship.

namaste

originally posted by: TruthxIsxInxThexMist
a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

Everytime I read a post by you, there is always something in it defending the 'gays'.

Why do you akways bring them into any conversation?

I don't bring them into any conversation. This thread is about religion "becoming vigorous" in its demise and the laws popping up all over the country against gay people's AND women's rights are clear indications of that... It's absolutely on topic.