Geologist: ''Jesus was married with a child and tomb found''

a reply to: Krazysh0t

How dare you bring concrete proof to this. Just have 'faith', man. You know, faith........ the word organized religions use to promote intellectual laziness.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

False

a reply to: TheFirstL

Great contribution there buddy. You will go far on this website.

a reply to: UnBreakable

I just gotta have faith?



I'll pass.

a reply to: ISeekTruth101

You have it backwards. According to the rules of logic it is the positive that begs proof not the negative. I can say there was no Jesus Christ. It is up to you to prove their was and you will have a hard time doing as there is no roman record of him at all. In fact there is no mention of him in written history for a couple hundred years after he supposedly lived.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: TheFirstL

Great contribution there buddy. You will go far on this website.

Must be trying to get those number of replies into double digits. Obviously hasn't been warned yet about the one word reply rule.

a reply to: Agartha

The Babilonian Talmud was not written until the 3rd to 6th century CE, 300 to 600 years after the death of Jesus. So once again (see my previous post) non-Bible accounts of Jesus are not contemporary but have been written after the gospels had been created and circulated. This is hearsay and not real evidence, they have no credibility. Also, there were two Jesus that appeared in rabbinic literature: Jesus Pandira (son of Pandira, which is in the Talmud and appeared around 50 years Before CE) and Jesus Ben Stada who was a political figure who practiced the forbidden arts of magic and was hanged with his 5 disciples (2 CE). 'The' Jesus (Yeshua) never appeared in rabbinic writings until aprox. 600 / 700 years after the anno domini.

You make the same mistake as many others of your class. It is not when the Gemara and Mishnah were compiled into the Talmud but instead the answers lay in when were the manuscripts written. It is not my point here to argue but only show you how to evaluate this literature. I do not believe you have the faintest conception in that field.

I understand the hatred of many towards the Yahusha Notzeri Hamashyiach and that is your prerogative as well but facts are facts regardless of your dislikes of those facts. The name of Jesus Notzeri does not always appear in the censored passages of the Talmud. Shabbath 194b and Sanhedrin 67a also mention Ben Stada or Ben Pandira but that was not the subject of this discussion. Only diversion.

In the Munich Talmud - Sanhedrin 43a is the following--
On the eve of Passover they hung Yeshu the Notzarine. And the herald went out before Him for 40 days [saying]: "Yeshu the Notzarine will go out to be stoned for sorcery and misleading and enticing Israel [to idolatry]. Any who knows [anything] in His defense must come and declare concerning Him." But no one came to Hid defense so they hung Him on the eve of Passover.

In addition is other evidence of Yahusha's Apostles being named.

Naturally this is the English translation of the Hebrew manuscript. Looking at that facsimile it is very clear that the erasure of that text was faintly shown and not complete.

I will not argue this with you simply because you have your mind set against any evidence that could be presented and this is verified true evidence that the Talmud was and is today censored to the people. I do encourage you to do a read on this and perhaps show you that the word "contemporary" does not always apply with understanding truth.

Some manuscripts of Talmud predate Jesus by many years. You may want to do a study of the source of Talmud and not the compiling of Talmud.

a reply to: UnBreakable

Lol his first thread will be:
Title: Conspiracy
Content: True

a reply to: damwel

You have it backwards. According to the rules of logic it is the positive that begs proof not the negative. I can say there was no Jesus Christ. It is up to you to prove their was and you will have a hard time doing as there is no roman record of him at all. In fact there is no mention of him in written history for a couple hundred years after he supposedly lived.

By your own rules then I can say you are wrong and you must prove you are right. Now what if you cannot prove you are right? Does that mean that I am right? Who made your silly rule?

By the way, are you privy to the ancient records of Rome? Perhaps you should tell us exactly how many Jews were crucified? Did you know that any Roman slave or free man which had received the penalty of death was required to have a court order by Rome in order to be put to death? Did you also know that Jesus was put to death without that Roman court order? And did you know that Pilate was recalled from his appointment because of that and was punished for sedition and five years hence was tried and convicted for attempted murder of Caesar?

Naturally if no court order was given by Rome, then we have no record.

originally posted by: Seede

- You make the same mistake as many others of your class.
- I do not believe you have the faintest conception in that field.
- I understand the hatred of many towards the Yahusha Notzeri Hamashyiach and that is your prerogative as well but facts are facts regardless of your dislikes of those facts.
- I will not argue this with you simply because you have your mind set against any evidence that could be presented

Do not make assumptions about me, my knowledge and prerogatives. We are here to discuss a topic, not to judge each other. Do not make statements about what you think is on my mind. Not once I've done that with you.

There is no point continuing this conversation with you. Have a good day sir/madam.

(my apologies to theabsolutetruth for going off topic with this post)

originally posted by: Seede

By the way, are you privy to the ancient records of Rome? Perhaps you should tell us exactly how many Jews were crucified? Did you know that any Roman slave or free man which had received the penalty of death was required to have a court order by Rome in order to be put to death? Did you also know that Jesus was put to death without that Roman court order? And did you know that Pilate was recalled from his appointment because of that and was punished for sedition and five years hence was tried and convicted for attempted murder of Caesar?

Do you have proof of all this? And by proof, I want actual primary sources that state that Pilate was recalled for not issuing a Roman court order for Jesus' death.

a reply to: Agartha

The thread isn't derailed IMO, it is par for the course on any religious threads that there will be debate as to the authenticity and validity of it's word and method. Nor were you the cause of veering 'off topic'.

Faith based religions are something most question these days, and rightly so, we know plenty of the world, Universe and history that suggests most religious texts are at least manipulated if not entirely contrived.

I know all about Jesus's existence. When people say Jesus H. Christ, they don't know what the "H" stands for. I know His middle name was Harold.

a reply to: Agartha

First of all, Santi was the one who alongside a journalist published the book, but he was just one of the scientists who did the "tests" on the shroud.

There were three tests done on the shroud. The tests done by the scientists at the University of Padua lasted 15 years.

...
The research includes three new tests, two chemical ones and one mechanical one. The first two were carried out with an FT-IR system, one using infra-red light and the other using Raman spectroscopy. The third was a multi-parametric mechanical test based on five different mechanical parameters linked to the voltage of the wire. The machine used to examine the Shroud's fibres and test traction, allowed researchers to examine tiny fibres alongside about twenty samples of cloth dated between 3000 BC and 2000 AD.
...

www.datingtheshroud.com...

Before that there were other tests, including "The Shroud of Turin Research Project" (TURP). The tests were done by several scientists in the late 1970s and early 1980s.

The Shroud of Turin Research Project (often abbreviated as STURP) refers to a team of scientists which performed a set of experiments and analyses on the Shroud of Turin during the late 1970s and early 1980s. STURP issued its final report in 1981.

The origins of the group go back to the experiments of physicist John P. Jackson, thermodynamicist Eric Jumper and photographer William Mottern in 1976. Using the ideas invented in aerospace science for building three dimensional models from images of Mars, Eric Jumper built initial devices to test the photographs of the Shroud of Turin. These were the first experiments relating to the shroud performed by scientists.[1]

In March 1977, Jackson, Jumper and Mottern invited a few other scientists to join them to form a team for the analysis of the Shroud. The first meeting took place in Albuquerque, New Mexico. The group had no official sponsorship and the scientists funded their own activities. They also managed to arrange gifts and loans of technical equipment whose value was estimated at over $2 million.

Nuclear physicist Tom D'Muhala headed STURP. Apart from Jackson, Jumper and Motten the team included thermal chemist Raymond N. Rogers, and Ron London and Roger Morris, all from Los Alamos National Laboratory. Other team members included Don Lynn of the Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, biophysicist John Heller, photographers Vern Miller and Barrie Schwortz, optical physicist Sam Pellicori and electric power experts John D. German and Rudy Dichtl, as well as forensic pathologist Robert Bucklin. STURP included no experts on medieval art, archaeology or textiles.
...

en.wikipedia.org...

Here is a video of what Nuclear physicist Tom D'Muhala, one of the scientists who performed the tests in the late 1970s and early 1980s has to say about the shroud, and what Particle Physicist Isabel Piczek has to say about it.



Here is the conclusion from the STURP team who did the tests and published the results in 1981.

"We can conclude for now that the Shroud image is that of a real human form of a scourged, crucified man. It is not the product of an artist. The blood stains are composed of hemoglobin and also give a positive test for serum albumin. The image is an ongoing mystery and until further chemical studies are made, perhaps by this group of scientists, or perhaps by some scientists in the future, the problem remains unsolved."

en.wikipedia.org...

Here is a slide presentation showing some of the results from some past tests on the shroud.

www.shroudnm.com...

You are ignoring the fact that the shroud had been repaired during medieval times with cloth from medieval times because of damage due to fire and age. The previous tests which claimed the shroud was from medieval times were done on the same fibres

You are also assuming that you know why the catholic church is not endorsing it entirely as the image of Jesus. The fact is how can you link it directly? We don't have the blood of Jesus to test it against the blood in the shroud... But the fact that to this day how the image was made is a mystery and cannot be reproduced. The fact that the image shows the same wounds that Jesus had kind of points to it being authentic and being the shroud that covered Jesus.

BTW, please do tell me how was ANYONE in medieval times able to input 3d information in the shroud when we can't even explain it to this day?

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Do you have proof of all this? And by proof, I want actual primary sources that state that Pilate was recalled for not issuing a Roman court order for Jesus' death.

Sorry but you will have to do your own homework on that. I have it but buried in Library.
Very little is known about Pontius Pilate's birth place or child hood. In fact it is almost as obscure as Jesus.
There was a limestone bearing his name which was discovered in 1961and proves that he was the prefect of Judah but little else of physical nature.

Philo mentions Pilate and also the historian Tacitus as well as Josephus mentions Pilate. Eusebius relates in Historia Ecclesiae ii:7 that Pilate was recalled, exiled to Gaul and committed suicide in Vienne. I had made a study of that some years ago but would have to do a search on my work. I believe this is enough to give you a search if you have a mind to do so. But if you need manuscripts as evidence you will not ever get them as of today.

a reply to: theabsolutetruth

Just because "men" have tried to change scriptures to fit their agenda it doesn't invalidate religions. More so when we have evidence such as the Shroud of Turin. It wasn't painted. Only the top two micro-fibres, thinner than a strand of hair, have the image imprinted. The image wasn't done by paint, nor by burning. Paint would have seeped deeper into the shroud, and the image in the shroud contains 3d information.

a reply to: UnBreakable

When people say Jesus H. Christ, they don't know what the "H" stands for. I know His middle name was Harold.

LOL!!!
Really? I thought it was "Holy".

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

I feel really bad for you.
Just wanted to say.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Why would you feel bad for me?

So far i have shown what the evidence says. but you, among others apparently don't even want to believe what the evidence says.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Why would you feel bad for me?

Just because: your attitude and ferocity against others.

There is a plethora of evidence that says the "Shroud" is not authentic. But, if you want to believe in it, then......
go right ahead.

I feel sorry for you.