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originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: ufoorbhunter
The Tories let a whole load of dead industries wither away.
I wonder, in what piece of Tory propaganda did you read that?
Did you actually live and try to work under Thatcher?
Did you actually experience the aftermath of her policies?
There were certainly major issues in many areas of UK manufacturing, not least large numbers of lower and middle management, incompetent management, serial under-investment, corruption etc.
If the shipbuildars weren't mking ships that people wanted to the right spec at the right place why should others subsidise their lives?
British heavy engineering was almost universally recognised as the vest in the world.
The problem was that UK ship building and heavy engineering in general was severely undercut by the far eastern market - South Korea etc - who basically were paying their employees the proverbial bowl of rice a day whilst UK tradesmen expected a wage that befitted their skill and excellence.
Rather than protect UK manufacturing The Tories simply abandoned it.
I worked in a yard on the Tees around 88 - 90.
One of the contracts we worked on was the Gyda platform for BP Norway.
Whilst conducting extensive onshore radiographic testing I got talking to a senior BP Norway executive.
I asked him why they had placed the order in 'our' yard - he explained that in the immediate aftermath of the Piper Alpha tragedy that had occurred in July 88 safety was viewed as paramount and that as 'everyone knew British engineering was by far the best in the world' it was decided that assured quality workmanship should take precedence over cost.
originally posted by: DAZ21
a reply to: ufoorbhunter
Yea it's great for now, until they decide to move manufacturing somewhere else and we can't do anything about it.
We need to stop selling our industries off if there's anything actually left nowadays.
It's a sad state of affairs not something to be proud of. How do France, Germany, et al all manage to keep their industries yet we had to sell everything.
The only thing the UK has any clout in today, is the finance sector, and we all know that only benefits a select few individuals.
originally posted by: Soloprotocol
Immigrants come over here and laze about on benefits whilst simultaneously stealing our jobs.
originally posted by: DAZ21
To even consider voting for Labour after the state that they left us in and especially since Blair has started sticking his beak in again. How anyone can trust that man makes me a bit sick. A man that got himself rich off of screwing the rest of us and doesn't trust us to make the right decision on Europe so doesn't want us to have one.
originally posted by: moniker
Now, this is what the British ship builders should have done from day one (and the sooner the better) - emphasised the superior quality, attention to detail and craftsmanship (but only if the company really is at that level). People are willing to pay a premium for quality. Not everyone of course, but a sufficient number to make it a good if not the best long-term strategy.
originally posted by: bastion
originally posted by: moniker
Now, this is what the British ship builders should have done from day one (and the sooner the better) - emphasised the superior quality, attention to detail and craftsmanship (but only if the company really is at that level). People are willing to pay a premium for quality. Not everyone of course, but a sufficient number to make it a good if not the best long-term strategy.
That's exactly what happened for the last 250 years or so and the UK was the best in the world for engineering and manufacturing goods in all areas until Thatcher dismantled it all by smashing unions, workers rights and handing the power over to private company owners who would just relocate to the cheapest place and cheapest raw materials.
originally posted by: SprocketUK
Back in the days of nationalised industries, we were fed the line that it wasn't right for taxpayers to subsidise loss making car plants, coal mines etc.
So the government privatised, shut and dismantled the overwhelming majority of these industries that provided good quality jobs to people who worked hard, paid lots of tax and bought things (many of which were also taxed).
Now, we have part time, zero hours, minimum wage jobs and these workers have to get their wages topped up by benefits, thus using tax payer money to shore up businesses that can't (or wont) pay decently.
These workers pay little or no tax, have nothing much to spend on buying other goods and services, thus spreading the poverty among local businesses which then also close or downsize and pay less taxes.
I wonder if the state really is better off...
If only things were that black and white eh?
I think it's a bit easy to say everything was wonderful under nationalised industries,....
.... don't know if you remember the huge raft of strikes in the 70's for example.