UFOs as Von Neumann Probes?

Imagine if you were an alien civilization.
You were working on building the first faster than light drive. But it seems incredibly, incredibly difficult and you simply can't do it (warp drives are absolutely possible, but in this hypothetical situation let's say they weren't...)
So how could you map out the galaxy without an interstellar drive? Even the speed of light is pretty slow on a grand scale (voyages would still take hundreds, thousands and millions of years)...So how could you approach the speed of light and map out the galaxy without building a big spaceship? Von Neumann probes! What are Von Neuman probes? Imagine millions of nano bots. Because they are so small, they can be accellorated to the speed of light with relatively little energy (propulsion being something we'll get to later). So you have these globs of nanobots and you send them out in every direction. These nanobots are self replicating. They multiply quickly, stopping anywhere that has potential resources that can be quickly mined and then converted into more nanobots..If I recall correctly, scientists have estimated that using that setup within 10,000 years, you would have about every star system and planet in the galaxy mapped out. www.youtube.com...
In his book, physics of the impossible, Michio Kaku hypothesizes that UFOs might simply be these automated nano probes. The sort of propulsion system these globs would use would be a magnetic monopole (or a magnet with only one pole), as that is how you could get them flying near the speed of light.
Now think about UFOs. Certain orblike UFOs seem like they might be globs of nanobots. Also, think about many of the electromagnetic anomalies associated with many UFO sightings. Also, think about how a monopole would behave in our magnetic field...it would allow for the rapid movement, hovering, and directional change so commonly associated with UFOs.
www.forbes.com... Furthermore, if alien artifacts and mining activity is discovered on the moon (an idea that is gaining more credibility in the astrobiology circles), then this would indicate that the moon would be a probe replication area, which would make sense since moons would probably be the places where the probes convert matter and replicate, then send the swarm down on the planet bellow.
Of course, this hypothesis isn't perfect as it still fails to explain many metallic craft, but it represents a fascinating alternative look at the ET hypothesis. So my fellow scientists of ATS: Any thoughts?

a reply to: SpaceOverlord

One can wonder exactly how the tiny bits of almost-nothing probes collect data and successfully beam it back to their home office. Seems rather magical to me. Given they surely cannot direct themselves, how many would be need to be shot out into the gigantic area of empty space of a galaxy in a shotgun approach to have the luck to hit some comparatively small solid target worth reporting about? Not to mention that the time of the "going" of the probe to a possible destination and the return (some how) of a signal doubles the transfer time of data acquisition. Why not just use technology like we have to sense data from afar (Kepler, Hubble, radio astronomy, etc.) that way, it is only a one-way trip?

Definitely within the realms of logical exploration. Could actually explain a a lot of observed phenomena, but not all, especially where there are life forms observed.

A logical method which would minimise risk to the observer the same way we send out unmanned probes to the solar system and beyond.

One of the things everyone needs to consider is that there are more than likely more than one group of ETs.

Think back a hundred years to the various countries that would send science teams to study this group or that group of indigenous peoples when they considered them 'less evolved' than us and 'closer to animals' than to us white humans.

It was not that long ago.

Now look at this planet if you can, take a step back and analyze what an ET may think.

The few living in absolute luxury while millions starve.
The military killing innocents to get to a few.
The MAD principle.

How would you view this planet.

Enlightened? I don't think so.

Ready to join the other space fairing races? No! Way to dangerous!

Raping our own Planet. It would be like them taking a crap on their flight deck!

I do not believe they would see us any differently than we would see a herd of goats and frankly, they are not far wrong.

A few different races looking us over for research, each using a different method. It would explain quite a lot of X-files.

P

a reply to: SpaceOverlord

Well, it worked for the Empire when they found Hoth by using a probe.

Joking aside cool topic and info..

I was not familiar with this so thank you.

It's an interesting concept. I always had a weird thought about this kinda thing, where the scientists say it'll take 10,000 years or whatever to map the galaxy using these probes.

What if some civilization did that and spent tons of money and resources to make it work, but then 5,000 years later developed a better technology that could map the galaxy immediately? It would make all their previous work useless.

originally posted by: SpaceOverlord
Imagine if you were an alien civilization.
You were working on building the first faster than light drive. But it seems incredibly, incredibly difficult and you simply can't do it (warp drives are absolutely possible, but in this hypothetical situation let's say they weren't...)
So how could you map out the galaxy without an interstellar drive? Even the speed of light is pretty slow on a grand scale (voyages would still take hundreds, thousands and millions of years)...So how could you approach the speed of light and map out the galaxy without building a big spaceship? Von Neumann probes! What are Von Neuman probes? Imagine millions of nano bots. Because they are so small, they can be accellorated to the speed of light with relatively little energy (propulsion being something we'll get to later). So you have these globs of nanobots and you send them out in every direction. These nanobots are self replicating. They multiply quickly, stopping anywhere that has potential resources that can be quickly mined and then converted into more nanobots..If I recall correctly, scientists have estimated that using that setup within 10,000 years, you would have about every star system and planet in the galaxy mapped out. www.youtube.com...
In his book, physics of the impossible, Michio Kaku hypothesizes that UFOs might simply be these automated nano probes. The sort of propulsion system these globs would use would be a magnetic monopole (or a magnet with only one pole), as that is how you could get them flying near the speed of light.
Now think about UFOs. Certain orblike UFOs seem like they might be globs of nanobots. Also, think about many of the electromagnetic anomalies associated with many UFO sightings. Also, think about how a monopole would behave in our magnetic field...it would allow for the rapid movement, hovering, and directional change so commonly associated with UFOs.
www.forbes.com... Furthermore, if alien artifacts and mining activity is discovered on the moon (an idea that is gaining more credibility in the astrobiology circles), then this would indicate that the moon would be a probe replication area, which would make sense since moons would probably be the places where the probes convert matter and replicate, then send the swarm down on the planet bellow.
Of course, this hypothesis isn't perfect as it still fails to explain many metallic craft, but it represents a fascinating alternative look at the ET hypothesis. So my fellow scientists of ATS: Any thoughts?

The reasoning you have is sound and I am working on a project which might indirectly detect nano sized probes if there were any.

originally posted by: thesearchfortruth
It's an interesting concept. I always had a weird thought about this kinda thing, where the scientists say it'll take 10,000 years or whatever to map the galaxy using these probes.

What if some civilization did that and spent tons of money and resources to make it work, but then 5,000 years later developed a better technology that could map the galaxy immediately? It would make all their previous work useless.

Not necessarily, because things change over time and while 5,000 years is a very very small amount of time in geologic or cosmologic terms it's still enough time that if you mapped the Galaxy 5,000 years ago and mapped Earth there would be no city lights.

Also think of the maps we have made of places here on Earth even hundreds of years ago and consider the accuracy of Google Earth mapping the same places today. Perhaps they would just be higher resolution maps 5,000 years later with the added bonus that they could see what if anything has changed (which might then indicate life and intelligence in some cases like the city lights one above).

a reply to: JadeStar

Yeah you're right, there would definitely be benefits to having previous maps.

The point I was trying to make was more about the time it would take to get the work done. Here's a better example. Say we made a spacecraft that could travel to Alpha Centauri in 100 years or so. We put a lot of work into making this ship, and then we send it on its way.

But 20 years later, we come up with the technology to travel at the speed of light, and we can get there in just 4 years. We'll pass our old ship up easily and all that money we spent on it won't have done much good.

a reply to: Aliensun

"Why not just use technology like we have to sense data from afar (Kepler, Hubble, radio astronomy, etc.) that way, it is only a one-way trip?"

That sort of technology still has limits. To really map out the galaxy 100%, probes are the best way to go. Kepler/hubble/radio astronomy still have their limits. They cannot directly observe exoplanets, instead looking at signatures like the wobble in the parent star's light. I also think it's foolish to think aliens would use the same methods that we do. Chances are, they're minds work completely differently from ours thus to think they would take the exact same path of technological development is quite a leap in logic.
Of course, you are right that it's not a perfect method. If you develop FTL travel (and with newcoming research about anti gravity and warp drives, as well as recent breatkthrough's like Eugen Podkletnov's superconductor anomalies, that is a more feasible idea than one would think) then of course it is pointless, unless you did it to map out nearby galactic terrain around the same time as developing the drive, so to have a clearer path of exploration and to know which things are worth exploring. Also, as thesearchfortruth brilliantly pointed out, there would be a time delay for the signals to be received due to the lightyear's distance. But again, taking human logic and technological development and assuming aliens are the same is a fool's errand.

a reply to: thesearchfortruth

it almost reminds me of an old science fiction story I once read. A generation starship gets lost in space on it's way to a new homeworld, and when they arrive they discover it has already been colonized because they developed FTL travel while they were gone!
Imagine how strange that would be.

a reply to: pheonix358

It's possible that while the probes were sending signals back to homebase, another more advanced species intercepted the signals and decided to use their FTL drive to check out what all the galactic fuss was about.
This would explain both orblike and metallic craft with lifeforms in them/abductees.
The probes explain the lights/orbs, and the other more advanced species intercepting they're transmissions explains the other craft. Of course, the 5% of UFO sightings that are legitimately unknown have myriads of possible hypothesis and is a very multifaceted phenomena, so we can't assume that one thing accounts for all of them. Thus, multiple species is an intriguing idea.

" I am working on a project which might indirectly detect nano sized probes if there were any."
How would such a project work? This is definitely fascinating, and anytime a new method of searching for alien intelligence comes up I am always fascinated. What methods do you plan on using?
I know there would be certain signatures. For example, the electromagnetic anomalies from the magnetic monopole I mentioned earlier. Also, these craft could hypothetically have some kind of invisibility cloak, perhaps the nanobots are small enough to bend wavelengths of light, in which case one could look for those strange ripples.
What exactly is your method and what signs are you looking for?
Is this finally an astronomically reproducible way to search for the truth about UFOs? You certainly have my attention.

DNA and RNA perform the replication function very nicely. Perhaps we are all Von Neumann Probes.

a reply to: charlyv

Von Neuman probes could've come down and modified our DNA.
Are you familiar with the junk DNA hypothesis?

a reply to: SpaceOverlord

I just love any discussion about DNA. We know so much and at the same time so little. Junk DNA must be the remnants of past building blocks that still need to be there for some kind of reference.

a reply to: charlyv

Are you familiar with the hypothesis that it may be a kind of alien code?
Check out this out, it's fascinating stuff!
news.discovery.com...

a reply to: SpaceOverlord

Could be a serial number of sorts, the authenticity that what follows describes a life form. Who knows, we just do not have that level of expertise to accurately decipher it yet. That will most likely happen soon.

The synergy between plants and bees. The synergy between asteroid impacts and life. Not hard to take, considering the way nature works in entangling totally different genomes so that they depend upon each other.