Tropopause drops to 7500 feet over Cincinatti

twitter.com...



So this was randomly documented because a weather balloon just happened to go up when the phenomenon occurred.


Air temps in the tropopause can get as low as -85 Celsius at the poles and -50 in equatorial regions.

The tropopause minimum acts as a barrier^ between the troposphere and stratosphere because mixing and heat transport by convection can only occur when temperature decreases with height. The troposphere - with convection allowed - is turbulent and well mixed. The stratosphere with its temperature increase with height is stable, stratified into layers and relatively poorly mixed^^.

At high latitudes the tropopause and lower stratosphere temperature can plunge to ~ -85°C to provide the conditions for PSCs, polar stratospheric clouds of which the incredibly bright and colourful nacreous clouds are a subset.

www.atoptics.co.uk...

The tropopause height does not gradually drop from low to high latitudes. Rather, it drops rapidly in the area of the subtropical and polar front jets (STJ and PFJ respectively in the Figure on the left), as shown in the Palmen-Newton model of the general circulation (Fig 12.16 or Fig on left). Especially when the jet is strong and the associated front at low levels intense, then the tropopause height drops suddenly across the jet stream. Sometimes the tropopause actually folds down to 500 hPa (5.5 km) and even lower, just behind a well-defined cold front.

www-das.uwyo.edu...

It says that it can happen on the edge of a strong polar front but I wonder how common it is?

And also what it could have meant to Cincinnati if it had dropped any lower, given the temperature fluctuations? Anyone care to speculate or throw some science at us?

a reply to: kosmicjack

The stable climate is essentially a gift from the universe. My current opinion is that we are about to hit an ice age.

I've been watching the winter temperatures all year this year. So far all winter its been warmer in Alaska then it's been in Pennsylvania. What am i talking about?

source

Siberia enjoys a well-deserved reputation as one of the coldest places on Earth. But the last time the planet got really cold, Siberia apparently didn't go along for the ride, providing animals a warm oasis from the Ice Age

During the last glacial period the Siberian tundra was actually a haven for wildlife. Weird right? It wasn't until the cataclysmic event at the end of the younger dryas that the climate changed in that region. On top of that the human population is experiencing lower birthrates.

Thanks for the thread Kosmic i was about to put a thread together about the coming glacial period.

a reply to: kosmicjack

Sounds a lot like The Day After Tomorrow so if it dropped low enough I think we can safely assume that Cincinnati would have turned into a frozen hell like this:

a reply to: theantediluvian

Ah ,that New York HAWK can be chilly off the watter...

Right now its 30 degrees in Alaska and 10 degrees in Pennsylvania.

I've been googling for like an hour or more and I can only find a couple other documented examples - one in Bismarck, ND in 2005 and another in the Tibetan plateau.

a reply to: kosmicjack

Oh were really going back into a glacial period for sure. It may not be an ice age but more like the glacial period in the 1500's.

You can analyze this from another perspective as well. Look at the decline in population and look at what was happening culturally during the last glacial period. You gotta listen to Randall Carlson this guy is onto something big.

a reply to: onequestion

I'm hoping that some of our science savvy members can put this in context for us. I was bummed that the twitter post didn't link to a more comprehensive explanation.

We have had an exceptionally mild winter here in Anchorage, Alaska. It's getting above freezing in the day already and very little snow. My roof is currently snow-less and many winters I'm deciding to shovel the roof by now.

About one out of three winters the snow in my yard is near or at the top of the fence by now. This year only patches of not much snow and green patches are showing under the trees and more sunny parts of the grass. My deck is dry and I usually can't open the door to the deck until end of April.

Whenever the northeast US has snowy weather or bad storms, it's usually mild here since the dip in the jet stream has moved to the east. You can pretty much predict the weather here by knowing what it is in say NY or Maine. Snowy there, nice here, colder than usual there, warmer than usual here. They have a mild warm winter, we have a nasty one.

It's where that dip in the jet-stream is.

originally posted by: kosmicjack
a reply to: onequestion

I'm hoping that some of our science savvy members can put this in context for us. I was bummed that the twitter post didn't link to a more comprehensive explanation.

I'd like to know as well this is a big topic of interests for me too. It can help us understand the ancient past a lot better.

a reply to: onequestion

To have an Ice Age you also needs to have cold summers, so that snow and ice accumulate and build up, carrying over to the next vinter.

So far summers has not been showing that cold, to suggest an Ice age is coming, cold winters doesn't mean an Ice age is upon us.

But ill guess we'll have to keep an eye out on this summer to see if there is anything about the talk.

a reply to: Blaine91555

Interesting.

But that dip in the jet stream is exactly what kept Siberia warm during the Ice Age isn't it?

Do you think a correlation can be made?

a reply to: Mianeye

Well apparently thats not true. What we see is a more extreme polarization of the worlds climate and in different regions during the Ice Age.

While Siberia was a haven for wildlife there was 2 mile think sheets of ice across Canada. In order for the fauna to flourish that means it had to have a proper growing season with means a normal summer.

a reply to: Blaine91555

Well....

a reply to: kosmicjack

Exactly... you see how polarized it is? The massive pendlum swing from 1 direction to the next?

Whats that look like energetically... its not stabilized.


Could this be caused by something near our solar system? Lets say a heavy object passes near the heliosphere i would think that it would throw our magnetics out of wack by causing a heavy pull in 1 direction or the other.

Forgive my scientifically ignorant position here but i'm just very curious about this topic and i want to learn more.

I think you can get what im saying here Kosmic.

a reply to: onequestion

I don't know enough about this to say to be honest. It's been the oposite most years and I don't think any single year shows a pattern that is meaningful.

Seems to me that patterns over hundreds of years are far more meaningful.

We do need an expert to join in this.

a reply to: Blaine91555

Totally agree. Watching this thread closely.

a reply to: kosmicjack

Normal winter for here and we are used to it, so it's not disruptive. I'm sure it's going to cause quite and economic problem in the northeast.

It was in the 40's in Fairbanks a few days ago if I heard the weather right.

The Iditarod real start has been moved to Fairbanks since we have no snow. I'm not even sure they have enough.

Second time in history this has happened.

Well, i'm no expert either, but it doesn't stop me from reading up on it.

And what i can see from the reading is an Ice age doesn't come overnight, it builds up over thousand of years and is affected by a lot of factors like the Earths wobble, the suns radiation and also co2 levels.

Unless there is something affecting Earth's climate other than those above we should be good for some thousand years still.

It's WIKI

At the same time, it is also known that greenhouse gases are increasing in concentration with each passing year. Based on the variations in solar heating and on the amount of CO
2 in the atmosphere, some calculations of future temperatures have been made. According to these estimates, the interglacial period the Earth is in now may persist for another 50,000 years if CO
2 levels increase to 750 parts per million (ppm)[citation needed] (the present atmospheric concentration of CO
2 is about 398 ppm by volume,[29] but is rising rapidly as humans continue to burn fossil fuels.) If CO
2 drops instead to 210 ppm, then the next glacial period may only be 15,000 years away.

a reply to: onequestion

My current opinion is that we are about to hit an ice age.

Denver Colorado here, been near 70 for the last week. The weather is the same now as it has always been! There are different patterns and cycles that are not always consistent, but by far anything from unusual. Proof is here, they have been keeping detailed weather records for a few centuries now. Notice how when you watch the weather every night, they say "looking to set a record low today, set way back in 1856 of -3 degrees. Gonna be a cold one folks!" If the temps were the same back then, why are they still the same now? What is your proof of an ice age? You do realize that it would take several hundred if not thousand of years for the climate to change that drastically?