Germany rejects an extension loan for Hellas (Greece)

As you may know, a couple of days ago, a eurogroup formed to discus about an extension of the loan with a new program and only for 6 months, till they decide about a new bailout focusing on growth for my country.

EU commission, agreed to light some austerity measures for the poor people, such us 10-15% pension decrease (its already 360 euros), etc. Recognized the humanitarian crisis that Hellas is into, since austerity begun and a bridge loan till they decide for a new, based on growth bailout program near August.

Germany removed this paper and added their own - Mr Varoufakhs reported it officially and on camera, in the press after the eurogroup and he exposed that there is no such eurozone, but more likely a germany above all.

Since, my country Hellas and German politicians, such as Soible, Mr Tsipras, our minister of Defense, Daiselbloom, etc.. exchanged heavy words in the press between them. Such us

Soible : I feel pity for the greeks, because they have an unreliable government
Mr Tsipras : Mr Soible is out of control, he should feel pitty for those countries who beg germans (have their heads down).
Hellenic minister of Defense, Mr Panos Kammenos : We are determined till the end, if they dont think with logic, will make a new "Kougi"
Soible : 28th of February is the end of Greece
Daiselbloom: We only accept the already decided program (austerity measures), or nothing...

etc etc...so many things...

Today my country as a last peaceful resort, requested an extension of the loan for 6 months based on the paper in the eurogroup, that have been removed from germans. It was a paper from Eu commission, that could bring a resolution.

Germans rejected it.



www.bild.de...
what is Kougi that our minister of defense said?

In December of 1803 in Souli villages of Hellas with the commander Tzabela and his 600 comrades against Turks, they created a defense perimeter in Kougi inside a fortress. After many tries and loses from the Turks side, they failed to occupy it. Turks send a representative to find a peaceful resolution. Commander Tzavellas, in order to save as many of his comrades, because their food was almost over inside the fortress, he agreed a peaceful departure and surrender Kougi to Ali Passa.

They moved out all of them and departed, only 3 people left behind, a priest and 2 militants, waited for the turkish forces to enter and surrender the fortress.

When all the turkish military entered inside, the priest and the 2 militants, triggered all the ammo saved inside Kougi and they made it a dust a huge eplosion!!!! They killed all the turks.

So this is Kougi guys... lol

Reports saying, Mr Kammenos used Kougi with a sense of humor, because it is germans who causing this, even if EU commissions, tries to find a resolution.

As for fresh news and reactions from my country... Brics making a new program for us and we will move to Brics maybe.. Mr Tsipras have meetings now. And they may bring a referendum.

@Am dyslexic, if u need some more clarification, ask.

a reply to: Ploutonas

Take this to your leaders

ANY KIND OF DEAL that still involves Greece using Euro as currency is doomed

Only going back to Greek currency will save Greece

How many Greeks themselves have figured that out, not many I reckon

a reply to: PizzaAnyday505

Only going back to Greek currency will save Greece

Does that actually remove the debt or make it even more expensive to repay

What is so hard about going back to drachmas?

Tell the Germans and the criminal bankers to take their offer and shove it up their pisino (Greek for ass).

a reply to: Ploutonas

Good post! It is hard to write in a different language especially with your challenge! I understand you fairly well.

I feel bad for the suffering Greeks are going through now. Past governments have cheated you and spent far too much money that the country did not have. Now everyone must suffer because of those past decisions.

I know it is popular to blame Germany and they do deserve some blame. The truth from where I sit however is that the Germans are more right than wrong. Greece needs careful government and tight money controls. This will slowly help the country recover. Greek politicians are not trusted by most of the world now. Trying to change the current bailout agreement is not going to be accepted.

Take all your money out of the Bank!

a reply to: mcChoodles

How do you import stuff or buy euros if nobody will trade with greece

originally posted by: Borisbanger
Does that actually remove the debt or make it even more expensive to repay

Bingo

On the "removes"

It is called bankruptcy and starting over

What pray tell is the alternative

500 years of this back and forth

originally posted by: Borisbanger
a reply to: PizzaAnyday505

Only going back to Greek currency will save Greece

Does that actually remove the debt or make it even more expensive to repay

if a country defaults, they normally erase a huge debt, after a national logistic check and in my country at least, we have many scandals from germans, also the IMF and bailout programs, forced into us, illegally. There is proofs from the national logistics ELSTAT, that the prev governments, raised the debt in 1 night by 7%, in order for my country to be accepted into IMF... so all these are illegal by default.

They created the crisis technically.

Here is an old article, there are many if u wish more... link

Thats why all people in Hellas screamed all these years, all was illegal. We voted for an end and if this government will not fulfill it, we have the option of golden down! Its the next step. And this news came from official Hellenic logistic/statistics...its not from a journalist

What people ask is a national investigation of the debt, erase all the illegal, move into jail all prev governments and if EU doesnt like that, we could also move out, we dont care anymore ...

originally posted by: Borisbanger
a reply to: mcChoodles

How do you import stuff or buy euros if nobody will trade with greece

People will always trade with Greece...it's just at what price is the question!

Truth is a Greek default will be devastating to the economy. I know the economy looks bad now with the bailout but a default will make now look like a holiday.

There is always Russia you can try to borrow money from...but they always want more than just money in return.

What did you expect? Obviously the central idea of all of Greece's debt is to hold Greece in an iron fist, forcing Greece to pay even only for the interest more than Greece's GDP - not to speak of acquittance, which might happen NEVER.

320.000.000.000 EUR, this is how much Greece is in debt right now. Absurdly high, in my opinion.
3/4 of this gigantic sum was paid to the banks in Greece.
1/4 went to the government to pay their domestic debts.
By austerity, which was mandated by the Troika, the unemployment rose to 26% (49.8% youth unemployment! Second in Europe only to Spain!).

This is insane!

How do you pay back your debts if you don't make enough money? It is impossible!


Therefore, giving more money to Greece WHILE simultanously demanding the returning to that damn policy of austerity is the worst possible way.

But Schäuble (why "Soible" - does this imply some defacement, or ridicule? Don't know?) wants his way.


It is not the Way Of The Germans.

Our MSM is doing its best to convince us that Tsipras is a politician who most definitely wants to have a major haircut, refusing Germany its payback... Yeah, thank you, mainstreammedia, to remember us who you belong to - the moneyz.

a reply to: Ploutonas

Okay. Here is what happened.

Greece formally requested a loan-extension, but left out the (previously agreed on) point in the paper that Greece must achieve a primary budget surplus of 3% of their annual economic output this year.

With everything Tsipras has promised his people, he didn't explain how he plans to meet this goal.

Instead Syriza changed the text in the paper to the very vague terminology of "...attaining an appropriate primary budget surplus".

Thus the skepticism in Germany to agree to further loans.

a reply to: Ploutonas

Looks like China and Russia have your back in Greece.

Will Russia and China ride to Greeces rescue!

I hope everything works out for you guys in Greece and I hope the UK is not far behind you in leaving this loony gravy train called the EU

a reply to: flammadraco

yes we have articles today, BRICS making a program with much much less % vat than EU and IMF and its based in growth repayment... But we must also give a naval base to Russia... China allready have the port of Peiraius. So if tomorrow there is no solution, our government maybe will report specific bills in the international courts, in order to accept the brics one.

Because Troyka and EU, included in the program, that we dont have the right to seek for any help other than them... And if we think about it, the government must report it, in order to accept the brics.

a reply to: Ploutonas

Well I hope you guys give the EU the middle finger tomorrow!

Good luck

Tomorrow is the critical eurogroup to decide for YES/NO ... After that the government must do as they must to protect the interest of the country, because they cannot delay it further. Russia - China / Brics already making a program, so....

Up to this point

Slovakia says NO
Finland says NO
Berlin and all surrounding Scandinavian countries says NO
Italy says YES
France says YES

will see how it goes, the point being that people at least, are very determined and we do not fear. The 93% of the total population has no money in the banks... I believe the next step is for the government to bring a referendum

Troyka/IMF/Full austerity program
Drachma/outside EU/turn of alliance

Here is some links for the No's and Yes up to this mommentum.

Finland
Slovakia
Italy
France

this government cannot agree with austerity programs for 1 major reason, its a left radical party and even if they can buy Tsipras, all the politicians (including the far right party they rule together now) about 160 in the number, will bring down the government. The only solution is the referendum or new ellections.

a reply to: Ploutonas

So by now we heard in more detail why our finance ministry objected to the greek request paper:
It seems like several core elements of the request paper were changed / phrased as vague as possible.

Did Syriza deliberately stall the formal request as long as possible, made sure the paper looked good at first glance, handed it in at the very last moment... and thought ze Germans would miss the changes?

Seriously?
Those shouting anti-german sentiment now... try this with your bank, financier, or any investor and see how it goes.


*Ironically, the greek Government did this following consultations by EU Commissions President Jean-Claude Juncker himself... which is a perfect example of how incompetent this guy is. (according to Tagesschau).

a reply to: ColCurious

They didnt change it. They use the paper Mr. Moscovici originally agreed with the Hellenic government.

The EU commission agreed on these terms, until the day of the Eurogroup. Germany replaced the papers and eurogroup canceled a while after it started.

here it is : www.capital.gr...

If you remember after the eurogroup, Mr Varoufakhs, reported germans, that act upon all eu decisions and while they found a common ground/agreement, germans tried to trap Varoufakhs. They reported it in the press. Today news, claim that Varoufakis and Daisebloom almost have a rage fight inside eurogroup facilities! They exchanged heavy words, such as " lier" etc... link I used google translate in this link, scroll down to find the text, because the translator terraformed the page.

Syriza politicians dont want even Moscovici agreement, they are ready for all. Anyway... Today is the eurogroup (Get ready Tsipras is coming)

In the other hand, we have news, American government is freaked out and they try to find a solution between Hellas and germans, because if we move out, Euro currency is going to fall down and dollar is going to be better than euro. That translates - no exports from america to eurozone... lol (and Russia will come in Hellas).

@ But I am sure, the first days is going to be like a paradise, you will be able to get BMW 50% price reduction.. lol

a reply to: Ploutonas

Just to be clear.

Are you saying the greek Government did not hand in a formal request paper that was full of "vital wording", or "deliberately phrased as vague as possible", and definitely did not commit to the conditions of its international bailout, specifically: did not commit to the agreed goal of achieving that primary budget surplus of 3% ?
Because that's Berlin's stance. Even describing the carefully worded greek letter as a "Trojan horse".

Is this their paper or not?

*

originally posted by: Ploutonas
Anyway... Today is the eurogroup (Get ready Tsipras is coming)

May he burn the whole rotten edifice to the ground.

a reply to: ColCurious
all programs have 2 faces, the agreement for the loan and the austerity bills that accompanies it.

The government agreed to have an extension with the first part of the agreement (the loan, NOT the bills) and as for the bills, they agreed with the Moscovici paper.

I hope its more clear now.

a reply to: Ploutonas

I'm afraid not.

But let me try to make it clear:
The "Moscovici draft" IS the insufficient paper in question.
See my post above why it is regarded as insufficient, and not by Berlin alone btw.

And to be totally frank here:
Even if King Juncker, Moscovici, or all socialists in Europe combined agreed with that paper, it doesn't change Schäubles position.