Russian Appeasement continues as Obama lets Merkel lead and fail

Minsk 2 has been a complete joke.

First off Putin demands Merkel and whoever the French President is [doesn't really matter] come to Moscow to talk. During the negotiating process in Minsk Putin was sending more tanks and APC's over the boarder into Ukraine.

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/ukraine-crisis-scores-of-tanks-moved-into-eastern-ukraine-from-russia-last-night-as-leaders-fought-over-ceasef ire-terms-kiev-claims-10041421.html

At the negotiations Putin tries to extend the time before the ceasefire would begin to allow his forces in Ukraine take more critical territory.

www.theguardian.com...

Immediately after the negotiating process Putin demands the Ukrainian army at the current key conflict area surrender.

www.voanews.com...

Then after the troops do surrender Putin taunts Ukraine in a press conference.

www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/russia-marches-on-uninhibited-in-eastern-ukraine/2015/02/18/d43a48d4-b78b-11e4-aa05-1ce812b3fdd2_story.html

All the while Obama, supposed leader of the free world, sits back and bluffs about sending weapons to Ukraine.

This all harkons back to a time when Western leaders tried the policy of appeasement with Nazi Germany. Of course when they did that policy the countries actually started to ramp up their weapons production. This time with Russia no such increase in weapons production is happening.

Clearly the German policy of trying to work with Russia and understand past grievances while limiting conflict is failing miserably. In fact, German political leadership has lost all credibility outside of Germany. EU countries are lining up against German policies and NATO members have all but written off Germany as a functional contributor to the alliance equal to it's economic size. France simply had no credibility to lose and hasn't gained any trying to push through the delivery of key military ships to Russia despite the current aggression.

Obama can be excused a little for letting a war weary American public and economy some breathing time and not getting too involved in Syria or Ukraine. However time is running short for Ukraine. The sheer number of modern Russian tanks operating inside Ukraine has tipped the balance against Ukraine. The country is now literally at the mercy of Putin. There is little doubt Russia can take whatever territory it likes in Ukraine at the moment. Any actions Russia takes in Ukraine will meet with no armed resistance from the EU or from America. Obama on many occasions has ruled out any direct military involvement in Ukraine.

How has the world come to this point? Has it been so long since WWII that countries have lost the lessons that millions of people died to teach them? One dictator can not stand up against a united world, but he sure will try to carve off as much territory as you will let him. Personally I feel ashamed that nothing serious is being done to help Ukraine. Why? Because if they were doing it to the country I live in I sure would want the world to stop it.

Merkel is a completely useless leader. She fully understands Russian aggression given her history growing up in East Germany. She now leads negotiations with Putin who has no intent to follow any limits placed on him by a treaty. She knows it and does nothing.
Obama is also completely useless as a leader. He dithers doing nothing until Congress literally forces a decision out of him.
Not many of the rest of the world leaders even deserve mention to be honest. Tusk from Poland is trying to marshal support but it's a long, uphill road.

If shooting down a passenger jet wasn't enough for the world to do something I doubt anything will. What a terrible, leaderless world I live in.

Ukraine is not a real country. It belongs to Russia. That is THE Ruskie mindset. They aint gonna let the Yanks colonoise it easily

a reply to: noeltrotsky

a reply to: noeltrotsky

Should they declare war on Russia?

a reply to: noeltrotsky

Minsk has been a joke, but Obama is dealing with NATO and the EU when it comes to Ukraine and they are taking the lead. There are NATO troops supposedly on the ground in Ukraine.

It's all sad to me. Ukraine has long been predicted to be a failed state, yet no one did much of anything about it. If I were in charge of the world, I would be tempted to dissolve the nationhood and reappoint the land for something like a world refugee camp or something. Yes I know, how dumb is that, but really. Rethinking everything using the same age-old parameters surely is not always the best solution.

originally posted by: RustyHook
a reply to: noeltrotsky

Should they declare war on Russia?

Good question! Of course they should do more...that's for sure!

I suggest NATO and a group of other like minded countries gather together and sign a very clear agreement that supports the territorial integrity of Ukraine as outlined in the Budapest Memorandum. That document should included a phased approach to actions taken by the group of countries. The actions would be like:

1. After 10 days a complete and total ban on Russian citizens entering the countries on the agreement. No exceptions. Russians currently inside the country would have 3 days to leave or be arrested and deported.
2. After 30 days an complete and total ban on import and export of all goods and services from Russia including financial transfers. No exceptions.
3. After 40 days seizure of all Russian citizen assets to be directed to the government of Ukraine as compensation.
4. After 60 days a declaration of War be issued by all countries signed onto the agreement. During the 60 days a massive mobilization of troops and equipment to forward countries located the closest to Russia and strategically placed.

Something like that signed by enough countries would surely end the conflict and return Ukraine to it's original shape in a very quick manner.

OK good to go!
Please continue..

a reply to: noeltrotsky

Poroshenko didn`t wanted to acknowledge Debaltseve was surrounded, so he wanted to keep a new West Berlin over there ?

He has been given the opportunity to surrender the troops over there, but Poroshenko wouldn`t show the UAF had been given a humiliating defeat over at Debaltseve, so he simply never gave the order to leave their weapons behind and surrender.

But leave it up to the Western Media and Politicians to not talk about that, and point towards Putin as being the perpetrator. They say history is written by the victors, but it`s now being written by the losers.

Poroshenko was the one not wanting to discuss about surrendering Debaltseve at Minsk !

originally posted by: noeltrotsky

originally posted by: RustyHook
a reply to: noeltrotsky

Should they declare war on Russia?

Good question! Of course they should do more...that's for sure!

I suggest NATO and a group of other like minded countries gather together and sign a very clear agreement that supports the territorial integrity of Ukraine as outlined in the Budapest Memorandum. That document should included a phased approach to actions taken by the group of countries. The actions would be like:

1. After 10 days a complete and total ban on Russian citizens entering the countries on the agreement. No exceptions. Russians currently inside the country would have 3 days to leave or be arrested and deported.
2. After 30 days an complete and total ban on import and export of all goods and services from Russia including financial transfers. No exceptions.
3. After 40 days seizure of all Russian citizen assets to be directed to the government of Ukraine as compensation.
4. After 60 days a declaration of War be issued by all countries signed onto the agreement. During the 60 days a massive mobilization of troops and equipment to forward countries located the closest to Russia and strategically placed.

Something like that signed by enough countries would surely end the conflict and return Ukraine to it's original shape in a very quick manner.

That's insane.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Looking at the bigger picture than just the recent battle. Time for the World to realize Putin won't stop and band together to ensure WW3 doesn't happen by firmly promising WW3. Odd how it works like that, but it does.

originally posted by: RustyHook
That's insane.

Putin has shown he only listens to military force. Nothing insane about displaying your military force and promising to use it. Personally I think following along the appeasement road that led to WWII is insane.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

You know Putin will be grabbing a land bridge to Crimea next. He needs it and nothing will stop him.

a reply to: noeltrotsky

Looking at the even bigger picture you would see Russia is standing its ground and the only way to stop the madness going towards WW3 is if those nutcases in Washington come to grasp with reality that their perverted dream of wanting to stay World Hegemon is what will end us.

a reply to: noeltrotsky

No you are suggesting things that will start WW3. Acting like Putin is planning on taking over the world is nonsense. Almost all their former allies have joined the EU, and now you act like he is some great invader just because he is protecting Russia's interests.

USA has got to keep its nose out of this one. Ukraine is Russia's backyard. USA can carry on killing people with brown faces around the middle east and securing its resourses, while letting Russia dealing with what belongs to it.

a reply to: noeltrotsky

originally posted by: noeltrotsky

originally posted by: RustyHook
That's insane.

Putin has shown he only listens to military force. Nothing insane about displaying your military force and promising to use it. Personally I think following along the appeasement road that led to WWII is insane.

You also said this.

After 60 days a declaration of War be issued by all countries signed onto the agreement.

Starting a world war over this is pretty insane to me.

The title shows a basic lack of understanding, or a willful ignorance to what has happened in Ukraine. Merkel is in the lead becauae German intelligence was in the lead in organizing the coup that put the junta in power in western Ukraine.

a reply to: RustyHook

Starting a world war over this is pretty insane to me.

The irony of it all, the ones on this board who are screaming the loudest about Putin being Hitler are the ones who come up with all kinds of plans to start WW3.