German intelligence: the death toll in Ukraine is 50 thousand

German intelligence: the death toll in Ukraine is 50 thousand

MOSCOW, 8 Feb - RIA Novosti. German intelligence agencies estimate the likely death toll in the ongoing military conflict in the East of Ukraine at 50 thousand people, which is almost ten times higher than the official data from Kiev, said a source in the intelligence services of Germany.

"Official figures are too low and not credible," - reported the Sunday newspaper Frankfurter Allgemeine Sonntagszeitung, citing a source in German intelligence.

Source

Frankfurter Allgemeine/German

Already last summer there were rumours that the official losses of the Ukrainian army were much higher, and it seems they were right.

No wonder hardly any Ukrainian wants to fight, mobilization numbers are very low and soldiers on the front refuse to fight.

And yet they still want to continue with sending in weapons and are talking about combining the army of the Ukraine with the Lithuania and Poland armies (as my second post here shows (which was confirmed by baburak to be true)) to bring even more soldiers into the slaughter house.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Who provided the figures for the "articles"?

No the Ukraine - Polish - Lithuania military are NOT combining. What they have done is formed a joint Brigade. Much like the NATO version. Secondly the post you linked to has no links to support the claim you made. He just agreed with what you stated but offered nothing to support his claim.

Secondly why is Russia reporting the same numbers as Ukraine?


Third - linking to a source that links back to Russian media as the primary reporting entity is fail.


The concept of the tri state brigade started in 2007, when Yanukovych was still in office. Every time you post false information you can count on me to be present to correct your omissions.

Lithuania - Polnd - Ukraine Brigade

Lithuanian–Polish–Ukrainian Brigade (abbr. LITPOLUKRBRIG; Lithuanian: Lietuvos-Lenkijos-Ukrainos brigada, LITPOLUKRBRIG; Ukrainian: Литовсько-Польсько-Українська Бригада, ЛИТПОЛУКРБРИГ; Polish: Brygada litewsko-polsko-ukraińska) is a planned multinational brigade consisting of units from the Lithuanian, Polish and Ukrainian armies. Other countries are free to join the trilateral agreement.[1] An agreement on its creation was signed on November 16, 2009. The brigade was to reach operational status in autumn 2011,[2] but it was delayed; a January 2012 estimate put that date at some time in 2013.[3] The unit was finally formed on September 19, 2014.[4]

Lithuania and Poland are NATO members,[5] while Ukraine is not. Ukraine asked to join the NATO Membership Action Plan in January 2008 (see Ukraine–NATO relations)[6] but shelved these plans early June 2010,[7] however, Ukraine's co-operation with NATO continued.[7]

On June 14, 2007, during an EU Defence Ministers' meeting, Lithuanian, Polish and Ukrainian ministers agreed to create a multinational unit

All sources are located at the bottom of the wikipage.


What could the possible motive be for this information all of a sudden secretly coming out? Could it be Putin is trying to further drive a wedge between EU members over their support for what's going on coupled with the US contemplating sending lethal aid to Ukraine, as other EU countries have done?

Smells like intentional propaganda with a specific goal in mind. I also like how you suggest the death toll is only linked to / caused by the Ukrainian government sides. You stated -

official losses of the Ukrainian army were much higher

Where is that contained in the articles you posted?

a reply to: Xcathdra

I put the actual link from the well respected German newspaper as original source also at it, and the numbers come from a source inside the German intelligence.

It was about the law being passed by the Ukrainian Rada to allow foreigners in the Ukrainian which has passed just recently.

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien

It was about the law being passed by the Ukrainian Rada to allow foreigners in the Ukrainian which has passed just recently.

which has what to do with what you posted? Or are you suggesting that law, and the "mercenaries" are somehow responsible for the body count you are solely attributing to Ukraine?

a reply to: Xcathdra

Your source also says...

On March 17, 2014, The Daily Telegraph (online edition) reported, as part of its live coverage of the 2014 Crimean crisis, that Poland’s defence ministry had announced it was re-launching plans to establish a joint Polish, Ukrainian and Lithuanian military brigade.

Re-launching plans as soon as the crisis broke out is rather telling. They couldn't have picked a more auspicious time. Perhaps the aim always has been to drag NATO into the conflict.

a reply to: midicon

You pointed out information that still does NOT support a claim made in the OP. The Ukraine-Poland-Lithuania militaries ARE not merging. Its a brigade size force.

a reply to: midicon

A NATO member engaging in military actions outside of a direct attack on said country is not covered under NATO's charter. If Poland and Lithuania wade into the conflict they are not covered by article 5.

Your "possibility" is flawed.

a reply to: Xcathdra

which has what to do with what you posted? Or are you suggesting that law, and the "mercenaries" are somehow responsible for the body count you are solely attributing to Ukraine?

That they want to continue with even more senseless wasting of human lives.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: midicon

A NATO member engaging in military actions outside of a direct attack on said country is not covered under NATO's charter. If Poland and Lithuania wade into the conflict they are not covered by article 5.

Your "possibility" is flawed.

Nato member countries getting involved in a confrontation with Russia, what could go wrong. So far we have had sanctions, financial shenanigans, the drop in the price of oil etc...all aimed at punishing Russia and all coming from the USA. Now we have the threat of military escalation, all from the USA. What's wrong with you people, is there something in the water? What is it with your military budget, doesn't that tell you something?

Ive heard on the tube interview with a Pro Russia import (from Russia) that they were paid 40$ an hour to beat the crap out of those who protested the Russian takeover in favour of an united Ukraine.....
The truth is that Both sides are guilty of murdering their opposition or subduing them from speaking out....
This is all just more propaganda by Russia lovers enamoured of Putins reckless and dangerous actions ......
There is a ring of falsehood to either sides claims....
The fact remains Russia initiated the invasion of the Ukraine....period..
Any change in the Ukrainian government was supported by the majority of its people......
I say EVERYBODY get the F# out and let the Ukrainians themselves settle this......
Its their country, and if they want a civil war they should have it undisturbed by the power blocs now supporting the killing....period.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Wow, that's very sad, I hope that it is not that bad.

I hope for a ceasing of violence; hopefully the two countries can simply talk. After all, they're like close family. Not just cousins, Ukraine and Russia are like brothers. Sibling rivalries can flare up, but we know what's at stake here. We can't let these unfortunate squabbles become more costly than they already are.

The above goes for any country or individual really. We must conquer our innate will to attack, to use violence, and instead use the power of our critical thinking and understanding to deal with these issues and find solutions that are agreeable on a compromise-basis.

Then again, Russia could certainly come up with some type of evidence, just as the U.S. did, about there being terrorists in Ukraine that were plotting an attack on a Russian target. Now, that would put a whole new spin on the situation. Only difference would be that they fully pre-empted the attack, whereas the U.S. did as their foundations say, wherein they must be struck first to initiate any sort of attack (this was disregarded several times after WW2).

I guess the question then remains, where and when does it stop?

The answer is that it never truly does, this is one of the ways of the Universe. However, when it comes to humanity and the nations of this world doing their best to protect the sanctity and sovereignty of not only themselves, but each other, well, that's a certain possibility. It's only a matter of us realizing where we stand in the bigger scheme of things, where we truly open our eyes and minds to the nature of our Earth and the real battles being waged. Maybe then will we set aside our petty differences and realize that we are all brothers and sisters in arms.

a reply to: 1Providence1

Wow, that's very sad, I hope that it is not that bad

Hmm, you can watch numerous youtube videos. I will not link them since they are really ugly, but I've seen 100-s of bodies.
I don't know exact numbers, but official figure that is often circulated in western media of 5000 seems too low.

a reply to: midicon

People have absolutely no clue how quickly things can go nuclear.

One man stopped global nuclear war

The decision not to start world war three was not taken in the Kremlin or the White House, but in the sweltering control room of a submarine. The launch of the B-59’s nuclear torpedo required the consent of all three senior officers aboard. Arkhipov was alone in refusing permission.

We only avoided a nuclear war because one man – Arkhipov – put down his foot and said no.

Most will probably think such a thing can`t happen again, but the moment communications go down it can easily happen again...

Unfortunately, Michel Chossudovsky documents In Towards a World War III Scenario that the U.S. is currently so enamored with nuclear weapons that it has authorized low-level field commanders to use them in the heat of battle in their sole discretion … without any approval from civilian leaders.

Source

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Battle losses are never reported accurately in War...by either side.

Your post is a silly attempt to make Ukraine look weak, like a bunch of your other threads. Not a good way to get higher pay from the government your loyal to.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Well, that's what happens when CM and Grad weapons are used in a (proxy-)civil war in densely populated areas.

I agree with Chancellor Merkels statement at the Munich Security Conference this weekend:
the last thing the Ukrainian people need is more weapons in their country.

Maybe her administration decided listen to the provided intel for once.

a reply to: noeltrotsky

Luckily for me I`m not loyal to any government and I don`t get paid to post, so I will keep doing what the victims of it all deserve, and that is to post about what goes on.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

German intelligence: the death toll in Ukraine is 50 thousand

So now where does this...

German security circles but think: It may be almost ten times as many.

www.faz.net...

Become this...your title of this thread...

German intelligence: the death toll in Ukraine is 50 thousand

Interesting that the original source says up to 50,000, yet your source the Russian blog says as though it is true that 50000 are in fact dead when it isn't actually verified.

This seems to be a trend amongst the pro Russian backers here lately...disregard the true headline for something that isn't true, or verified.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

and that is to post about what goes on.

No matter if it's the truth or not...you never cease to amaze.

The losers on the Ukraine ordeal are the Ukrainian people. I bet not one high ranking new government official has been harmed.

Is Europe really sticking it to the US ?

Europe Fractures: France Pivots To Putin, Cyprus Offers Moscow Military Base, Germany-US Splinter On Ukraine

Following yesterday's summary of the utter farce that the Minsk Summit/Ukraine "peace" deal talks have become, the various parties involved appear to be fracturing even faster today. The headlines are coming thick and fast but most prescient appears to be: Despite John Kerry's denial of any split between Germany and US over arms deliveries to Ukraine, German Foreign Minister Steinmeier slammed Washington's strategy for being "not just risky but counterproductive." But perhaps most significantly is France's continued apparent pivot towards Russia... Following Francois Hollande's calls for greater autonomy for Eastern Ukraine, former French President Nicolas Sarkozy has come out in apparent support of Russia (and specifically against the US), "we are part of a common civilization with Russia,” adding, "the interests of the Americans with the Russians are not the interests of Europe and Russia." Even NATO appears to have given up hope of peace as Stoltenberg's statements show little optimism and the decision by Cyprus to allow Russia to use its soil for military facilities suggests all is not at all well in the European 'union'.

Source

While this may sound hopeful, problem is still what is Kiev going and willing to do.