Believers

I for one am truly sick and tired pf those that believe.

To believe is to turn a blind eye to what you do *not* believe in. Bind eyes....are...blind.


Do you actually have tangible proof, one way or the other?

Whether we're talking about the idea believer (aliens, god, efficacy and good natured intent of the Government, TPTB, you name it) or the person rabidly holding onto and bandying the flag of "science', etc... They've all lost the plot. Lacking the ability to see the bigger picture, or understanding of the idea that as nobody truly knows they are blind.


Perhaps it is the purely emotional connection. The idea that their very foundation could crumble beneath them if they do not unerringly and unwaiveringly go with the approved dogma.

Then, of course you have the relentless attacks. The labeling, the intellectual insults. The stonewalling...

Where are the folks that strive to see both sides of the equation? That lack the hubris to think that they truly can divine what is true and what is false?




-NF

a reply to: nullafides

I once had an argument on here stating there is no proof whether god exists or doesnt' exist...no one knows for sure. And then someone rebutted with "how do you know ive never talked to god or met god personally..therefore allowing me to know". He was right... I had to include that possibility. As with all things I have to include the one possibility that defeats all logic and that is experience. I don't believe in religion and I'm open to the idea of a god but doubt there is one...however some people swear by it cause they feel it...which doesn't jive with me...but if someone said they met god and seemed legit...credible...id have to wonder just a little even though id still doubt them ...i couldnt fully write them off.

So take this with anything. Why do you personally believe in some things you believe in...because of your experience and logic most likely...who is to say you wont come across some new experience that changes your opinion on something. By standing in your shoes I can see your perspective on things.

Lets say some child was abused their whole lives...then they grow up not respecting authority and we just write them off as a bad apple...well why would they respect authority? They were abused their whole lives. Same with someone who has never gone through hard times...how could they understand that about 50% of the families (my opinion on the number) are one bad incident away from losing their house which would put them in difficult times and maybe make them homeless. To be in their shoes you could understand that not all homeless were bad people...etc.

a reply to: nullafides

We have been taught a black and white world. They teach us this to keep control of us. The religious text explain clearly that we live in a gray world with black and white borders.

Republican vs Democrat - no gray
Moses was a prophet or Mohammad was a prophet, why can't both be prophets?
Black vs White - Science has already debunked one is evolved over the other but we stay blind.

In a world of Black and White it is easy to divide a nation. A nation divided against itself cannot stand. The bankers and the corporations they own are not divided. They are on a path of world denomination. As long as they can keep people from seeing the gray they keep us divided and conquer us. We are too busy arguing over black and white that we refuse to paint with a gray brush that will lead us to unity.

for a second I thought you were my buddy that said I was crazy because I can't dunk in the nba.

because If I drop like 40 more lbs, I will, I guarantee. faith is weird man, I have no faith in religion but God is different, maybe I don't like subscribe, but really I think most people are just agnostic, they choose not to participate probably because of the history of religious violence. I have total faith in my music career but that is whack, cause I'm a white rapper? whatever, stay tuned to indo rap.



for faith

a reply to: rockpaperhammock


Whereas I truly am not attempting to antagonize for the sake of antagonizing in and of itself...

There are many things one can say truly happened. That they feel. That they believe.


There have been times I've realized just how comforting actual belief must be. Security through knowledge and belief. Comfort in knowing that all ends have been tied. I see this as being something highly intoxicating.

For instance, my ex-wife. Moved in, and crucifixes immediately went up. Although I was 100% accepting of it, supportive of it, and otherwise ok with it, one thing haunted me. Given that I grew up in a house of critical acceptance of others beliefs and ideas, I'd never grew up with any form of religious icons in the house. Then, all of a sudden, jesus christ is hanging from a cross in my line of view. Every day. No escaping it. Felt like there was a white elephant in the room. Couldn't NOT see it. Couldn't NOT think about it. I found myself actually empathizing with my wife over the topic. Somewhat jealous of the warm blanket she could pull up about her on demand.

My stance has no blanket.


Is it possible someone has proof? Is it probable? If you've been there, show me what you find to be your proof. Do it without pedantic intellectualism or proclomation that you are the only one aware of the "truth". Just show me. I'm not wanting to debunk, but to understand and put it into a perspective that I can process it for my own needs.


Is that so much to ask?



- NF

originally posted by: rockpaperhammock
a reply to: nullafides

I once had an argument on here stating there is no proof whether god exists or doesnt' exist...no one knows for sure. And then someone rebutted with "how do you know ive never talked to god or met god personally..therefore allowing me to know". He was right... I had to include that possibility. As with all things I have to include the one possibility that defeats all logic and that is experience. I don't believe in religion and I'm open to the idea of a god but doubt there is one...however some people swear by it cause they feel it...which doesn't jive with me...but if someone said they met god and seemed legit...credible...id have to wonder just a little even though id still doubt them ...i couldnt fully write them off.

So take this with anything. Why do you personally believe in some things you believe in...because of your experience and logic most likely...who is to say you wont come across some new experience that changes your opinion on something. By standing in your shoes I can see your perspective on things.

Lets say some child was abused their whole lives...then they grow up not respecting authority and we just write them off as a bad apple...well why would they respect authority? They were abused their whole lives. Same with someone who has never gone through hard times...how could they understand that about 50% of the families (my opinion on the number) are one bad incident away from losing their house which would put them in difficult times and maybe make them homeless. To be in their shoes you could understand that not all homeless were bad people...etc.

you must first eliminate the impossible. thus what follows, however unlikely, must include the truth.

a reply to: nrd101



I truly do not understand the correlation between your music career, being caucasion, belief, and your faith in god. Would you mind expounding on your point of view?

I am *not* saying it is wrong to believe. I *am* saying that there is room to consider those views that are 180 degrees of from your own. I *am* saying, take it in. Do so without condemning those who disagree. Do so with as clear and non-biased of a mind possible.

Be comfortable in knowing yourself and not having such an insecure stance that openly denying and eventual attacks are the preferable option.


I recently went full barrel in a thread something to the effect of "I will openly declare my belief as a Fudamentalist Christina, will you openly admit your own belief?". The OP had willingly accepted the mantle of being a victim, in my eyes. I did so, because the crude analysis of anyone who didn't believe with him was insulting to me. The idea that if I truly didn't believe in god meant that I hated him and looked to sway others to my point of view as well.


I find myself compelled to respond. To rant.



-NF

a reply to: TzarChasm


Nice use of Occam's Razor. But, I do not feel it is much of a response to my rant. A method, but not a response.



Mind going further?



-NF

a reply to: sacgamer25

I am painting a much larger brushstroke here.


I am contesting those that chose to be on one team or the other are blind. I am stating that the rabidity of such a stance is something that makes my nose react as if something repugnant and swathed in decay.

I am stating that group think stinks in this fashion, to me.



- NF

.
So does that mean you don't believe in anything?
From what I can tell everyone has beliefs in one form or another.

a reply to: nullafides

Science usually does provide some kind of proof. At least publishable results.

a reply to: nullafides

nothing to do with occams razor. i was quoting sir arthur doyle, although my off the cuff quotes are not always verbatim.

a reply to: TzarChasm

Well, easily, the philosophical logic behind your quote has it's roots, if not in a parallel fashion in the razor.

The term Occam's razor refers to the philosophical idea or scientific principle that of any given set of explanations for an event occurring, it is most likely that the simplest one is the correct one. Occam's razor does not seek to offer complete and absolute proof, but to find the simplest probable answer to a question of why an event happened.

Occam's Razor Explained

By eliminating the impossible, you are most likely eliminating the least likely events that led to the outcome.



- NF

originally posted by: nrd101
for a second I thought you were my buddy that said I was crazy because I can't dunk in the nba.

because If I drop like 40 more lbs, I will, I guarantee. faith is weird man, I have no faith in religion but God is different, maybe I don't like subscribe, but really I think most people are just agnostic, they choose not to participate probably because of the history of religious violence. I have total faith in my music career but that is whack, cause I'm a white rapper? whatever, stay tuned to indo rap.

for faith

That track is dope.
Im a white hip hop producer, same era.

Took my mind off of the whole religious bull# for a sec. Thanks.

originally posted by: nullafides
a reply to: TzarChasm

Well, easily, the philosophical logic behind your quote has it's roots, if not in a parallel fashion in the razor.

The term Occam's razor refers to the philosophical idea or scientific principle that of any given set of explanations for an event occurring, it is most likely that the simplest one is the correct one. Occam's razor does not seek to offer complete and absolute proof, but to find the simplest probable answer to a question of why an event happened.

Occam's Razor Explained

By eliminating the impossible, you are most likely eliminating the least likely events that led to the outcome.



- NF

not the same thing. sometimes the impossible is simpler than the truth.

a reply to: TzarChasm



Thanks to an opinion.


Enjoy...



-NF

a reply to: nullafides

Hey brother, I have proof of some of those. It is not like an artifact, it is an impossibility. Magic is magic - therefore when it happens, it will describe itself, it will confirm itself. Doesn't matter what you believe, just what you see, in that case. But I know that we humans, can see something also, and it be an illusion. However when too many things happen altogether, there is no way it can all be a coincidence, to a certain point, after a certain number of displays, there is a line discerning what is coincidence and what is magic.

An example would be something extraordinary, but not something that could be questioned. For example, if you had a dream about your friend and they called you at 3 in the morning and woke you up, telling you exactly what was happening in your dream with them, would that be something enough to discern a possibility? Or would it just be a coincidence. I have not had the exact same thing happen before, but I have witnessed something pretty close.

I would like to apologize to the forum staff. Lately I have been stressed, and I felt it ok to disclose all of my opinions and some biased views. But the fact is that even though we encourage freedom of speech, there is still a realization that sharing negativity is a sin.

a reply to: greyer



I cannot even begin to understand the point you're trying to make.




- NF

a reply to: nullafides

Well we should not read each other. I am an extreme imbecile for being so stupid to believe that another human being would treat me with a positive attitude. I am a stupid idiot. Now I remember, being nice doesn't exist in this world, and the only thing that I shall expect to ever receive, from any human being, is negativity. Did you know I was shown hatred by one dozen random people in the last 24 hours for being a nice person? I am shown dislike by them for being a human being. What a great thing to expect such negativity everywhere.

a reply to: greyer

yet again, doesn't really explain what your point. Sorry people were mean to you. What does any of this have to do with "believers" ? You truly do seem to be wanting to come to a point...



- NF