Gun owners - Have you apologised for a spree killing recently?

Gun owners and advocates of the second amendment.

You believe in a right to bear arms - namely that individuals have the right to own a weapon if they wish to.

The constituton of the USA specifically covers such in the second amendment, and other countries round the world also have similar laws allowing the posession of weapons.

In the US, gun advocacy is rife with various pressure groups and organisations exist solely with the viewpoint of protecting the right to bear arms - the NRA comes to mind but there are, I believe, smaller groups.

The problem is that people with guns kill people. And the gun community isn't doing anything about it.

When was the last time you saw a mass rally by gun advocates such as the NRA protesting a spree killing?

When was the last time a gun owner apologised to you personally for the actions of others of their ilk?

Why haven't the majority of gun advocates stood up and done something about the spree killings, weeded out these extremist spree killers before they've struck and got rid of them?

When will gun owners reform their views that everyone has the right to bear a weapon, and change the writen advocacy of such, and their enshrined laws? They obviously don't care or they'd have done something about it by now. They probably secretly support the spree killings don't they?

Why aren't the gun community doing anything?



Disclaimer : This post is topical satire. Its aimed at trying to stimulate some deeper thinking on a particular subject. Its not meant as a slight against anyone personally. Its a parallel. I can guarantee that probably 50% of the posters who reply to this OP will not read this disclaimer.

a reply to: neformore

sorry but why should other gun owners apologise for the actions of someone else they have nothing do do with?

Do you also think all car drivers should be out protesting every time a kid gets knocked down.

But do you think all Muslims should apologise for killing some people in France by a small group of extremists?

Now I am no advocate of guns but i don't really see why a gun owner in Texas should be out apologising if a gunman in Alaska kills a couple of people.

I don't know if you are trying to draw a parallel between violent Islamic extremism and guns. I am guessing you are and at the same time trying to point out that people demand that the whole Muslim community gets on their feet every time there is a terrorist attack, yet the same is not expected when someone shoots up a school in Sandy Hook of gun owners. It is a good point. Kind of.

Because don't know if this is a fair comparison to draw or not, I can see some problems with it.

Some might say that when we talk about the Islam we are talking about a identifiable group in our society who can have a direct influence potentially on the actions of these terrorists, they all have a link through their sheared faith. Owning a gun is not like that, gun owners are not connected in any real way other than that they own a gun, which is not quite as profound as sharing a religion.

Additionally I am sure that most gun owners would say that they oppose mass shootings, its just that they do not want their "freedom to bare arms" taken away from them as a result.

This is a thought provoking subject however and I can see what your getting at, why does one group have to come out in their masses and apologise for the actions of a few in their members. Yet the same is not expected of gun owners, but like i said above that comparison does have its problems.

So suppose it could be argued from the other side but I doubt that you are going to get many American gun owners to read as far down as the disclaimer and I doubt that some will understand the deeper meaning of the thread.

originally posted by: neformore

The problem is that people with guns kill people.

FALSE...this is incorrect. People kill people, guns or no guns. This has gone on since people existed on this earth long before guns existed. If the guns are taken away, then people will find another way. This can not and will not ever change. It's a terrible flaw as a species.

Millions of people own guns and don't kill people.

a reply to: neformore

This post is topical satire. Its aimed at trying to stimulate some deeper thinking on a particular subject.

Deep satire?

People own firearms, not "weapons". A weapon is what its called after its used in a crime.

What about bank robbers? Why isn't something being done about them? They should start protests, pass laws and patrol the cities looking for them. They could strike any minute and we must stop them before they do. (wink)

a reply to: neformore

I see what you did there.

Guilt by association and generalization is a dangerous thing... no matter the context.

*Isn't this considered "trolling" though?

Lol nerf appears people didn't read the whole post lol.

a reply to: neformore

Well they should Nef, they should all be rounded up, made to apologise, take to the streets in protest, prostrate themselves before us, then be shipped home...

Whoops, wrong thread.

Good point, well made. The generalisations that are flying about are getting pretty scary these days. We need to stand together against a threat like extremism, not fall apart.

S&F

a reply to: neformore

A gun is an inanimate object with no mind of it's own. When some kill with a gun, only that person is responsible for his or her actions. Do you know that in the US, there are more than 100,000 defensive gun use every single year? And that is believed to be a low estimate since it comes from the National Crime Victimization Survey, which is very left leaning. So does that mean every time a gun is used to save someone's life, all anti-gunner should praise the gun owner?

Another anti gun thread? Sigh.
Bottom line, crazy people do crazy things. Period. We, as gun owners, owe no one an apology. I didn't do anything, so I should not be persecuted for what someone else did. Why didn't the medical community do a better job of identifying the mentally ill? Why haven't the cops kept in touch with the medical community? How do "we" know who is going to snap? The majority of gun owners are responsible citizens, who would no more go on a rampage than you would, but seem to catch all the flack when a nut job does. We can't blame all Muslims for the violence, but we can sure as Hell point an accusing finger at all gun owners. What do we have to apologize for? We have no control over it. Do you drive? Then I expect an apology from every one who does for the wreck I had. You have the same control over other drivers as we have over other gun owners and I expect my apology right this second. Yes, I read the disclaimer. But this subject has been talked to death and brought up every time there's a shooting. There's no quick solution and taking our guns or making us register them is not the answer. I'm sure all the anti gunners will say "turn them in" or "make stronger laws", but criminals don't follow the law and the only ones who do are the ones you didn't have to worry about to begin with.

a reply to: neformore

Following on.....
The next time there is a mass shooting, do you think it might be possible for all of the anti-gunners shut the hell up about passing more antigun legislation?
We shouldn't blame all Muslims for terror attacks by radical Muslims.... Why disarm law abiding gun owners?
Anyone get that???

originally posted by: DAVID64
Another anti gun thread? Sigh.

Nope.

Try again.

a reply to: neformore

Yea, I read the entire thing and know it is satire. But there have been protests in a sense. All those open carry protests that occur from time to time for instance.

They are protesting & advocating their 2d Amendment Rights to keep and bear arms and showing others that not all people who have firearms are irresponsible and/or violent.

But those protests are usually few in numbers of people.

a reply to: neformore

You're really good at satire by the way.

You have a bright future in internet news sources.

Apples and Oranges.

One is a belief system, a religion.

The other is a tool.

Last I looked, I've not seen anyone "prayed" to death. Nor have we seen a believer in their religion point a finger and call down lightning to smote someone.

I've not heard of a gun owner being stoned to death because they used someone else's gun.

Female gun owners can drive if they want. As far as I know, female gun owners are pretty much treated the same as male gun owners.

Why? Well, that gun itself makes a pretty good level playing field.

While I appricate what you are trying to do (why should we hold an entire religious group responsible for the actions of a much smaller group), your logic on this is a bit flawed.

It's like saying that since elephants are grey, anything grey must be an elephant.

It would have been better to compare two different religious belief systems.

Personally I don't think all Muslims should be held accountable for, nor have to give an apology for the actions of those that are extreme in their views to the point of killing other people. They are not them.

a reply to: neformore

But that's exactly how it will be seen by the anti gunners and the bandwagon is gonna get full pretty fast.

a reply to: eriktheawful

I agree that is the problem with this comparison

Its thought provoking and I can really see what the OP is trying to get at.

But the two subjects are just too different to draw any meaningful conclusions.

originally posted by: eriktheawful
One is a belief system, a religion.

The other is a tool.

True.

He explicitly adressed "Gun owners and advocates of the second amendment" though... who are a vast group of people. That is the point.

(arrrgh... not sure if "which" or "who" or "whom" is correct english here. sorry!)

Total BS. Following your flawed logic every gun owner is a terrorist.
This piece is a typical inflamatory comment hoping to make people who own guns look like scum. I have lots of guns, but I have never shot anyone.

First of all, terrorists use bombs more than guns, but even if they just used guns they are still TERRORISTS! Normal people own guns and know how to use them. They use them to hunt or just stay in practice shooting targets. 99.99999% of gun owners never kill another person.

You might be better off asking TERRORISTS to appologize for killing innocent people!

If I were to follow your logic I could say you are a bad person because you have taken prescription drugs and we all know how many people die from those.

a reply to: neformore

It is not a parallel.

A gun is an inanimate object and cannot belong a group of people.

You would have done better to ask:

If you are a Democrat, do you feel the need to apologize for all Democrats every time another Democrat does something illegal?

If you are a Christian, do you feel the need to apologize for all Christians every time another Christians does something bad?

If you are a professional athlete, do you feel the need to apologize for all professional athletes every time another professional athlete does something bad?

In all of the above examples we are talking about individual people who belong to groups of other people where actual people (not inanimate objects) are the wrong doers.

Perhaps:

As a legal gun owner, do you feel you need to apologize for all other legal gun owners when someone with a gun kills others?

Quite frankly, the answer is yes. They do a lot of apologizing for it. So do Christians btw. If the dominate media culture wants to paint a picture of the worst of you, then you spend a lot of time apologizing because the rest of society more or less demands it of you every time someone steps out of line in a spectacular way.

At any rate I still find it fascinating the lengths we will go to deny that there is a very deep problem circulating inside Islam. How long are we going to ignore it by trying to draw moral equivalencies to it in order to make ourselves feel better?