You have been sentenced to death for disobeying a direct order.

source

This is breaking news, so standard disclaimers about early information apply.

Black males stopped in residential neighborhood (code for suburbs). Cops approach guns drawn. I'll be following this one to get more info of course.

Imagine you are there. Are you afraid? Angry? what? This better have been a felony stop. These operatives were ready for good American vein popping action!

So anyway, as it goes...
LEO's subsequently order suspect/citizen out of vehicle. Suspect/citizen makes a move to get back in the car. In a split second, the calculus of consequence is complete. A black life. No brainer. Sentence? death. No reason not to shoot when you think about it. Is there some cool code word for "get the gun?" I bet there is. Anyway a gun is in evidence, and evidence is evidence.

"No brainer" will be a punchline at a drinking party.

This one stinks already. No video yet. No standard of reporting video anyway. Cams are too much trouble. Yea, I'm mad.

There may be a valid explanation to this. Black, white, or gray, doesn't matter. If those guys looked threatening, case closed. (I use "threatening" in a very sadistic / sarcastic way, albeit, sadly)

a reply to: InverseLookingGlass

Reid was sentenced in 1994 to 15 years in prison for his conviction on charges of attempted murder and aggravated assault, reported the Press of Atlantic City.

The newspaper reported at the time that Reid shot at police as he attempted to flee from his home after police came to question him about a stolen gun.

A state trooper shot Reid in the hand, but he was able to run away and eventually surrendered.

The deceased certainly sounds like he was a pillar of restraint, morality and good decision making. I like how they also found a gun.

a reply to: Domo1

Well if you're gonna share that part of the article, why not share this part...

Ben Mosely, a retired sheriff’s deputy, told WPVI-TV he watched the incident from his bedroom window.

He said Reid had gotten out of his car but then tried to get back into the vehicle when officers opened fire, but – based on his own police training — he does not believe the shooting was justified.

“I saw a disarmed man go down to the ground and get shot,” Mosley said. “That’s exactly what I saw.”

...
You know, to remove the bias.

a reply to: Domo1

So they got lucky and guessed right.

Shoot first ask questions later.

Oh well one less criminal thug off the streets I guess.

Wonder what the initial stop was about

a reply to: Sremmos80

In many ways I agree that after someone has paid their debt to society they should be given a clean slate. I think I should have one, and I've certainly learned my lesson.

Past indiscretions are also a pretty good indicator of future behavior though, recidivism rates for violent crime are high.

I'm not one to rejoice when anyone is killed. It doesn't make me happy, and I've always had a hard time with people who want rapists to get raped in jail, or killers to get killed. My point was simply that this given this person's past, it makes it far less surprising he would have done something stupid.

I wonder what the stop was for too. I think it odd they didn't release that.

Oh and regarding the cop as a witness comment from CharlieSpears, I have no idea what sort of vantage point that guy had, his age (retired lends me to believe old) or really anything. I give him more credit than most because he was a trained observer. I didn't fail to include that information in order to fit the narrative I'm being paid to write. I'm not really as pro cop as some seem to think, I despise bad cops and have started threads about them a number of times. I just don't like the whole anytime someone is shot they were just minding their own business and the cops are racist trigger happy ghouls nonsense I see spewed time and again.

a reply to: InverseLookingGlass

Couldn't agree more. The stats explain it.... thoroughly detestable they may be.

a reply to: Domo1

I guess one other thing I am curious about is what they knew of the guy before the shoot.

Unless the car was registered,which is likely, to him doesn't seem like they had much time to figure out exactly who he is.

Based on what I read though it seems they may have had an idea though.

You know I agree with the second chance thing, doesn't really surprise me you are for that line of thinking, I probably agree with you more then you think on things.
With that said, I somewhat agree with you about him having a higher possibility of actually grabbing that gun and using it, but we really will never know.

I know I know "cops don't need to wait and see" cause if they do then he can get the first shot off.

But they did not know about the gun until after, so they really did just shoot him over making a move they didn't like.
Kinda like the guy that got shot over going back into his car to get his ID.

a reply to: Domo1

I didn't fail to include that information in order to fit the narrative I'm being paid to write.

I would never suggest such a thing Domo, I appreciate your input a lot...

I just used foresight in preparation for those who will view your comment & jump straight onto the "thug" bandwagon the media loves to perpetuate...

So I shared the excerpt for a bit of balance.

For the sake of fairness in reporting, this was at the end of the story and may be relevant too:

Worley, one of the officers who shot Reid, has faced previous disciplinary action for insubordination, and the other, Day, is a rookie officer.

If the suspects background is being questioned regarding his motives, then the officers must also face the same scrutiny IMO. And, as this is an ongoing story, and full set of witness and forensics aspect has not been completed yet, I await more details before coming to an informed opinion on the parties responsible for his death.

ETA: The charges of "insubordination" could take both paths too. He was insubordinate in his duties and/or not following established procedure, or he was insubordinate because he refused to do something he felt was illegal when ordered by a superior (like trying to report abuse by another officer). Each of these could be filed as "insubordination" and each is the polar opposite of the other too. This ambiguity is not something the suspect has in relation to his past illegal behavior. We shall see as more details are uncovered, I hope.

Sadly, black lives don't seem to matter to those who own them.
Living by the gun is pretty desperate and a disproportionate number of young men make that choice.
This is NOT the byproduct of a normal, healthy environment.
Sad too that our police have to take so much crap for defending their own lives.
I sure would were I in that blue uniform.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

The man had been charged previously for attempted murder and had also fired at police officers on the run in previous encounters......

I love how every story that comes out about a black man getting shot people try to paint the picture of him as a pillar of society........

He obviously has had contact with the law before and has a history of deadly violence......

Im sure he knew trying to get back into his vehicle after being ordered out of it wasnt a wise move..........

Id hedge my bet he wasnt going back in there to get lollipops for the police officers......

Why is it every time one of these "black lives" is lost to a police officer it comes out they have a history of thug behavior and violence..........but people like the OP try to make them sound like they havent done a thing wrong....

Why arent you crying foul over the numerous videos of white people being beaten and killed by police officers?

Why arent these being brought back to the surface?

Why isnt the video of that homeless man a few years ago that was bludgeoned by a mob of officers , then left to die as they stood around, being brought back up as an example of police brutality? He had done nothing wrong, was just sitting there......

Ahh.......because he was white.....and only black lives matter.......i forgot

This whole "cause" is so disingenuous it makes me sick

They cry racism but ive watched the live feeds, and ive heard more racist slogans and bigoted slander coming out of the black protesters then ive heard in this country in a long time from any other group of people.......

enough with the BS.......enough the OP, the Media, and the groups of people perpetuating this divisiveness are pushing people towards the point of a race war.......

Is that what the end game is here?

If not, then i suggest stop being part of the problem and stop furthering the divide......and start promoting ALL lives matter, and quit pushing this agenda

Here is one of the eyewitness cell phone videos (when will people STOP filming in portrait mode? GGrrrr..)



Now, granted this video begins without seeing the shooting at the start. However, if you listen at the beginning you can hear the police yelling at the suspect to get down on the ground, then what seems to be shots fired (I could be mistaken). Then later in the video, the person holding the camera states that the cops asked the guy to get out of the car and then shot him for no reason. How would he know that when he wasn't even at the window at the time as evidenced by the content of the video he himself had recorded???

ETA: I just reviewed the video again. The sounds I heard earlier might have been the dog barking in the background. But, it seems the officer on the passenger side (at 0:23) shines his flashlight at someone standing by the passenger door (was he the one being told to get down earlier in the video?). Then you hear something that could be gun shots (unfortunately the person recording was not focused on that area as it is just out-f-frame). At 0:35, the officer is now bent/kneeling on the ground beyond the passenger door which may be the suspect that was shot. The news story did mention the one shot was a passenger in the vehicle. So, it is another case of when told to "get the $%$ down" by the police, you should not provoke them by standing there near the car door?

a reply to: ManBehindTheMask


We've all done things in the past we won't repeat...
Who are we to judge the guy who made those mistakes 20 years ago?

If it was last week I'd give you the benefit of the doubt there...
But there is nothing to suggest he would have repeated those actions 2 decades later after serving his time.

I'm not saying he was a pillar of society...
At the same time I don't know how he treated people in his community...
For all we know he was a real Robin Hood...
Or he could of been some purse snatching scumbag...
But really we shouldn't want to make such assumptions either way...
That's part & parcel of the problem with society now, people making their minds up based on minimal information that is very vague.


Re:White people & me not crying foul...
Make a thread about it and I'll join you.



Edit: Mistake.

a reply to: Sremmos80

I guess one other thing I am curious about is what they knew of the guy before the shoot.

Curious about that too. Remember though that the decedent was a passenger. I'm doubting they would have had any info on him.

Unless the car was registered,which is likely, to him doesn't seem like they had much time to figure out exactly who he is.

Possible. I let some people drive my car. It's pretty rare for me to be a passenger in my own vehicle though.

Based on what I read though it seems they may have had an idea though.

What part made you believe they knew? I've been missing things tonight, helped my neighbor move and I'm tired.

You know I agree with the second chance thing, doesn't really surprise me you are for that line of thinking, I probably agree with you more then you think on things.

Not surprised. I have a lot of respect for you. We may tip a little differently on issues, but I feel like we balance at a very similar place.

I know I know "cops don't need to wait and see" cause if they do then he can get the first shot off.

Thats a scary precedent. When I first read this I too thought of the man that was shot when he went back into his car at the gas station to grab ID.

There are some instances where I think it's prudent for police to shoot, and some where I think it's a poor decision, and some where I think they want to.

I don't have enough info on this shooting. I'm not going to dismiss it as justified, and I'm not going to say it was wrong.

Given the history, and that a gun was found, I'm not seeing the cops' narrative as at all unreasonable. Again, with the history, and a gun being found, I don't think we should automatically discount the officers' statements. To me it would make more sense that a guy with a history of being violent, a guy that apparently had a gun, and a guy that in the past had issues with police (including violence) would do something that would require deadly force over police randomly and luckily picking some black guy to shoot that had a perfect history for this sort of thing.

a reply to: InverseLookingGlass

Thought this might be a message from my X. My bad!

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

I would never suggest such a thing Domo, I appreciate your input a lot...

Oh. I suppose I took it the wrong way. That was a very nice thing for you to say.

I just used foresight in preparation for those who will view your comment & jump straight onto the "thug" bandwagon the media loves to perpetuate...

That kind of thing really bothers me. I don't care if someone is a thug, I don't want anyone killed. I know exactly the kind of comment you are referring to, and I should start being more vocal about just how wrong those comments are. A badge doesn't make someone more honest than a person with a felony. I worry too often a badge is an automatic sentence of wrongdoing in this community and many others. I was hypocritical when I tried to make my point.

I understand why you shared that excerpt.

a reply to: Domo1

Wow must of read to fast, I posted what I said thinking he was the driver

Him being the passenger changes things.

Gonna be very interested it what comes out about this.

So, basically you all agree with police firing without any evidence of being attacked directly by someone?

Because I'm 51 and was raised on the news, and the real meat and potato citizens never experienced this kind of police brutality. You had to be careful when you fired a lethal weapon.

And I am not willing to let this slide but demand, that it return to the right and correct world.

Anyone who supports this is going to a lesser realm on death. There are infinite frequencies, up and down. Earth is being dragged down.

So in short...

Guy gets stopped.

Told to stay still.

Goes for back of the car despite being told to stay still.

Gets shot dead.

Gun found in the car.

Well that just demonstrated to me the reason that people in these circumstances get killed. The cops shot him in case he was going for a weapon. Turns out there WAS a weapon. How do any of you know that he WASN'T going for the pistol? The cops may have just made a decision that saved their lives.

People pulling weapons on routine traffic stops is one of the most common causes of police deaths on duty. They cannot afford to be too cautious. Complacency can lead to an officers death. They don't go out in the morning wanting to brass up some folks, they go out to do their job and go home. Sometimes they don't get to go home because of someone else's life choices.

Tell me this - if you were in an occupation where people who have access to weapons may want to kill you to stop you from performing it would you give the benefit of the doubt? If you say yes then I would suggest that you haven't been there.