Chemtrail Over Mandurah Western Australia

a reply to: swinggal

08:30 UTC = 4:30 PM there, no?

ETA:

UAE 440 still crosses the coast even higher at Exmouth which is also nowhere near Perth

I see. Hmmm, what am I to make of this screenshot?

a reply to: waynos

Looking at it another way, for this to be an extraordinary event, like spraying, the mundane explanation needs to able to be examined and dismissed, why do you think it can't just be a contrail?

Because it was 30 degrees around the time it was laid down, there was a strong south westerly breeze blowing and it hung around for more than an hour. Contrails don't tend to form in those conditions and definitely don't hang around for that length of time. Add to that how the leading edge of the cloud front changed to a jagged edge from a smooth line.

a reply to: mazzroth

And if the trail was at 36,000 feet, what might the temperature be there? I doubt very seriously it was 30.

a reply to: mazzroth

I've seen them while up north in the Pilbara where it's stinking hot.

Ground temp, humidity and wind speed/direction will be completely different at aircraft cruising altitudes.

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: mazzroth

And if the trail was at 36,000 feet, what might the temperature be there? I doubt very seriously it was 30.

I don't know how to judge what height the trail was floating at but my mate who took the stills of the same trail states that he saw a light plane fly over it so it would have to of been under 5000 feet as that is the height restriction on small aircraft here.

You can see how the trail went from being thin and straight to being much wider and spread out, how does a contrail manage to achieve this miraculous condition ? I don't understand how you people can think a contrail will hang around for so long.

originally posted by: mazzroth

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: mazzroth

And if the trail was at 36,000 feet, what might the temperature be there? I doubt very seriously it was 30.

I don't know how to judge what height the trail was floating at but my mate who took the stills of the same trail states that he saw a light plane fly over it so it would have to of been under 5000 feet as that is the height restriction on small aircraft here.

We may be fast approaching the point at which we have to agree to differ. You're right when you say you can't judge the height of the trail. No-one can without a plane tracker of some kind, though many have posted here before that they can, lol.

Your mate says he saw a light aircraft fly over it. It may be simply that he is mistaken. If he wasn't then I don't know what you saw. Simple as that, but it couldn't have been a contrail. .

My reason for saying that is because, after taking several thousand aviation photographs over the years, I've never seen an aircraft leave a contrail below 22,000ft (except for aerodynamic contrails which are very short lived and not what we are talking about). Above that many of them leave trails (some of which appear to be much lower than they really are after the plane has gone, btw), some of which disappear quickly, some of which linger and move about in the upper air currents and some of which spread out into cloud cover (which I saw this morning whilst walking the dogs). But never any contrails below that height and it's a lot colder here than where you are, sadly.

You can see how the trail went from being thin and straight to being much wider and spread out, how does a contrail manage to achieve this miraculous condition ? I don't understand how you people can think a contrail will hang around for so long.

There's nothing miraculous about it, unless you simply accept that your mate was correct and the trail was under 5000ft.
With a normal contrail, if the relative humidity is sufficiently high, the nucleation particles in the jet exhaust that lead to the contrail being created can trigger further nucleation and freezing from the ambient water vapour, leading to the trail expanding into cloud cover. Indeed that is the ONLY explanation that doesn't require a miracle, because for an artificially sprayed trail to behave in this manner it would need to be made of some kind of material that can miraclulously replicate itself out of nothing at all. At least with a contrail the water vapour is already in the atmosphere.

originally posted by: mazzroth

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: mazzroth

And if the trail was at 36,000 feet, what might the temperature be there? I doubt very seriously it was 30.

I don't know how to judge what height the trail was floating at but my mate who took the stills of the same trail states that he saw a light plane fly over it so it would have to of been under 5000 feet as that is the height restriction on small aircraft here.

I'll say this, if you ever get a video of a small plane at 5000 feet leaving a contrail or even a chemtrail, you will have an amazing bit of footage. (Think patterson film) Contrails are cirrus clouds.

Cirrus Clouds

Cirrus clouds are thin, wispy clouds blown by high winds into long streamers. They are considered "high clouds" forming above 6000 m (20,000 ft). Cirrus clouds usually move across the sky from west to east. They generally mean fair to pleasant weather.

link

So knowing that they cannot physically exist at low attitudes, makes your story amazing. I'm not saying you are lying. Just implying that perhaps your trail was quite a bit higher than you thought.

a reply to: DenyObfuscation

Interesting. The site I was looking at showed them passing over much further up the coast. Weird.

a reply to: swinggal

Let's have a look. What did you see?

a reply to: mazzroth

I saw this contrail as well on the same day, and DenyObfuscation and I have deduced that it would have been UAE 440 from Dubai crossing over the coast on it's way to Adelaide at 4:30pm at 36,000 feet from the flight data records we have looked at. It was so high that I could barely see the plane...it was a mere dot in the sky and it was only the contrail that alerted me that it was there at all. These high altitude planes go over all the time but contrails are not always formed, so we don't notice the planes.

The air must have been just right that day and at 36,000 feet the temp is about -56C!

a reply to: DenyObfuscation

Here:

a reply to: waynos

Waynos: I have to give my mate Bazza the benefit of the doubt here, given he is an engineer and spent decades on British Nuclear subs, has navy clearance, the fact I know this guy irl and we talk about this kind of stuff on a regular basis you will have to see I take his judgement and knowledge of military information above that of an average poster on ATS.

I want to ask you this in all seriousness..can you ever remember in your lifetime seeing lines in the sky like we see now ? I can remember as a kid always having an interest in clouds and watched them for 40+ years with interest. Only in the last 15 have I experienced the long lines and seeing them hang for 2-3 hours in the sky.

Back in about March 2001 I remember seeing my first "Chemtrail" here in WA. It was memorable because the plane did a near perfect cross hatch in the sky directly above the house I was renovating. I remember dragging my son outside and saying to him "this is something new and you may never see it again". I was totally wrong.

originally posted by: mazzroth
a reply to: waynos

Waynos: I have to give my mate Bazza the benefit of the doubt here, given he is an engineer and spent decades on British Nuclear subs, has navy clearance, the fact I know this guy irl and we talk about this kind of stuff on a regular basis you will have to see I take his judgement and knowledge of military information above that of an average poster on ATS.

Yeah, fair enough. Like I said, I wasn't there so I was just throwing up the possibility.

I want to ask you this in all seriousness..can you ever remember in your lifetime seeing lines in the sky like we see now ? I can remember as a kid always having an interest in clouds and watched them for 40+ years with interest. Only in the last 15 have I experienced the long lines and seeing them hang for 2-3 hours in the sky.

In all seriousness yes I can, though far, far fewer than now. There are several factors that account for this proliferation without it being due to spraying. I've been through them before and am loath to just infodump on you, but will put them to you if you want me to. They seem entirely logical reasons to me though.

Back in about March 2001 I remember seeing my first "Chemtrail" here in WA. It was memorable because the plane did a near perfect cross hatch in the sky directly above the house I was renovating. I remember dragging my son outside and saying to him "this is something new and you may never see it again". I was totally wrong.

I genuinely don't understand why trails crossing over equals a chemtrail? I find it unfathomable that aircraft could be expected to operate without crossing paths? I made a thread on here where a photographed a tic tac toe created in the sky above me and I identified each aircraft involved to show that it was just air traffic.

If you'd like a read and see the pictures, it's here www.abovetopsecret.com...

a reply to: mazzroth

So the fact that a trail cannot physically exists at 5000 feet has no bearing on any of this?

That's the part that kind of makes me sway towards your mate may have been mistaken. But as was said, we weren't there, so none of us know for sure. All we have is a guy's word, and over 100 years of science on the other side.

a reply to: mazzroth

Just put this video up on youtube with what I saw over my house last Wednesday

You meant Tuesday though, right?

At what time of day did you record the first part of the vid? The part with the moon visible.

originally posted by: DenyObfuscation
a reply to: mazzroth

Just put this video up on youtube with what I saw over my house last Wednesday

You meant Tuesday though, right?

At what time of day did you record the first part of the vid? The part with the moon visible.

I would say around 4pm roughly and yes I meant tuesday.
checkout this youtube clip and put down your glasses.

m.youtube.com...

a reply to: mazzroth

Thanks for the info. I asked because in the vid you estimated the trail to be 50 km (~ 31 miles) away. You have also suggested the trail was less than 5000 feet in altitude.

Dec 30, at 16:00 the altitude of the Moon was 23.7 degrees. aa.usno.navy.mil... I used E 115 deg 44 min, S 32 deg 32 min 8 hours East of Greenwich.

The trail appears to be at about 15.7deg, 8 deg below the Moon. Using 15.7 ( angle a) and 5000 feet (side b) the trail would be about 18,000 feet (~ 5.5km) away. If we use 36,000 feet for altitude, the trail becomes about 130,000 feet (~ 39.6 km) away. www.carbidedepot.com...



Using the 4:30 time posted by swinggal, the Moon rises to 28.8 deg placing the trail at about 20.8 deg. At 5000 feet the trail becomes about 13,000 (~ 4 km) to 14,000 feet (~ 4.2 km) depending on how you're looking at it (side b or side c). 36,000 feet high would put the trail at about 94,000 feet (~ 28 km) or 101,000 feet (~ 31 km) away, again depending on side b/side c.

It would appear to me that your estimate of "50 Ks away" is much more realistic than "Less than 5000 feet" high.

That video had one highlight. @ 7:22 "I suggest you go to geoengineering watch dot org, pardon me, 'chemtrails'." She can't even say it with a straight face! LOL