Strange Genetics on 23andMe

So I thought I would inquire of the deep pool of Smarter Than I Am on ATS and see if any of you have some potential insight here. I apologize for the inevitably narcissistic aspect of this thread but I am a bit frustrated.

I did the DNA analysis with 23andMe. While I welcome any speculation on the potential nefarious or conspiracy minded role 23andMe may or may not be mired in, I would like to focus on the specifics of what was turned up as well.

The autosomal DNA was not too much of a surprise; 100% European--mostly UK and generalized northern European. There was some Eastern European (specifically, Russian keeps coming up) which was a bit of a surprise. My father is half Norwegian and my mother is half Czech. Their respective fathers are children of immigrants. My father's mother's line is less known and has some anecdotal history of a black slave that would have been my 3x great grandfather but African decent did not turn up on the autosomal DNA, so maybe not.

There was a tiny sliver 1-2% of Ashkenazi but there is no anecdotal history of Jewish heritage.

The real surprise however was my mtDNA haplogroup which came up as L2a1, which is pretty solidly African. There is no oral history on this direct maternal line of any African ancestry, not even a whisper. I have gone back four generations (1852) and there is no hint and there my trail goes cold. I feel the most likely scenario is an American slave ancestor but there have been admixture events on the European continent as well. If any history buffs have some specifics on these to maybe give me some potential scenarios I am very curious. The other scenario is an association with the Ashkenazi genetics but I'm not sure how likely that is. The least likely scenario I think is a prehistoric link.

So if anyone is willing to sound off on this I would be grateful. I can only ask that people be at least not overtly confrontational in expressing their opinions on this. I'm not looking for a fight here, just information and ideas.

I have used 23andMe for DNA Analysis, and had questions about my results (still have them actually). My genetic makeup, contains surprising amounts of Native American, East Asian, Iberian and South Asian ...not sure where any of that came from, I thought I was just a Black girl from New Jersey.

All of that to say, there are some helpful people in the forums on 23andme.com, that may be able to give advice, but they all have pretty much the same questions as everyone else.

There was professor from the Univ. of Illinois, who offered a more specific interpretation of your 23andMe results at no charge. Not sure if he's still doing that. But, his email is: [email protected], if you're interested in contacting him.

I really think someone from 23andme should help with some of the confusion in the forums. It's like we've purchased a map that none of us are able to read.


Good luck!

Here are a couple of links with information that you might find interesting:

www.bl.uk...

www.telegraph.co.uk...

Here is a little bit of history about the Moors (Berbers and Arabs hailing from North Africa) who invaded and conquered Spain in 711AD.

Niobe, you may find this interesting as you have Iberian heritage

Redhorse - this may help you because it explains how the second generation of Moors in Spain were the children of the male Moors and female Spaniards. The Moors had taken no women with them when they mounted their invasion. So there we have an African / European mix, although not quite what was identified in your heritage and the Moors weren't the sort of black Africans we might think of such as Nigerians.


However, you did ask for 'potential scenarios' and people do travel

Is there a way to narrow down which part of Africa your mtDNA haplogroup originates from?

www.spanish-fiestas.com...


I'm a great admirer of the Moorish architecture so if nothing else you might enjoy investigating that:

education.nationalgeographic.com...

a reply to: redhorse

To all who have responded, thanks. The system is timing me out so I can't reply well.

a reply to: redhorse

I find it odd that we are so stuck on race and color when we all are so mixed up, and when it comes down to oral history, it is just the tale of the day.

My family has just about the whole of the planet covered. I guess it is safe to say we are true Earthlings.

a reply to: berenike

Lost my entire post because the system timed out! Oh well, thanks for your post, very interesting information.

It would be SO awesome if everyone could have their dna tested.

originally posted by: NightSkyeB4Dawn
a reply to: redhorse

I find it odd that we are so stuck on race and color when we all are so mixed up, and when it comes down to oral history, it is just the tale of the day.

My family has just about the whole of the planet covered. I guess it is safe to say we are true Earthlings.

Exactly.

How intriguing!

my friend did 23 and me and came back with his DNA is a mix of irish and some indonesian princess from sulewasi. My friend is 6'3" long straight nearly platinum blond hard, no freckles and pale white skin. So he was sorta surprised.

Me I am a total mutt. Part, english, mostley northern italian with some turkish genetics mixed in from the constintine era. and 25 percent chinese. So i would be interested to see just how wacky my DNA is.

Also my sister and I,minus our short stature and stocky body build which is identical and mirrors my italian grandfather, express totally different phenotypes.

I'm curly brown haired, brown eyes, look mostly italian in features. She's got green hazel eyes, blond straight hair. No upper (strongly diminished) eyelid folds like asians do. So it would be cool to see the spectrum of DNA me and my sister have. Cause we are some serious mutts.

originally posted by: BASSPLYR
my friend did 23 and me and came back with his DNA is a mix of irish and some indonesian princess from sulewasi. My friend is 6'3" long straight nearly platinum blond hard, no freckles and pale white skin. So he was sorta surprised.

Me I am a total mutt. Part, english, mostley northern italian with some turkish genetics mixed in from the constintine era. and 25 percent chinese. So i would be interested to see just how wacky my DNA is.

Also my sister and I,minus our short stature and stocky body build which is identical and mirrors my italian grandfather, express totally different phenotypes.

I'm curly brown haired, brown eyes, look mostly italian in features. She's got green hazel eyes, blond straight hair. No upper (strongly diminished) eyelid folds like asians do. So it would be cool to see the spectrum of DNA me and my sister have. Cause we are some serious mutts.

Us mutts make the world a wonderful and interesting place.

Just in case anyone is interested I have yet the track down my African ancestor. I have, on my maternal line, gotten only to my gg grandmother. She was born in 1852 in Illinois. Family lore has it that the family "hopped a train" from Illinois and came to Montana. They did not do this ah... with tickets. Some chancey stuff going on there. I will have to wait until next week to renew my subscription for Ancestry.com and see what else I can find out.

My mother is quite certain that she had some years ago tracked the line back to the 1500's in England and that the maternal ancestress had signed her wedding document with an "x" (but her name was Mary). Someone at ancestry.com told her that this meant the woman was African or native American. I am highly skeptical of an inter-racial marriage in Tudor or Elizabethan England at all and I don't see how a woman signing with an "x" was that unusual anyway. Maybe I'm wrong, I've been wrong before. There were enough "berbers" in Elizabethan England to make the queen nervous. So who knows.

I would also like thank everyone for their input and frankly support so far, especially niobe and berenike for their insight and links.

a reply to: redhorse

You are very welcome, and continued good luck with your research. Thanks for rekindling my interest in my dna results. I had become bored with it, because it seemed like an expensive dead end.

I went back and looked at Dr. Mcdonald's analysis of my results, and found Middle Eastern/N. African ancestry. I'm sure that pairs up with the Iberian. My mtDNA haplogroup originated in what is now Mozambique, and there was a large presence of Arab slave traders in that area, prior to it's colonization in the 1500's by the Portuguese.

Going to try the Ancestry.com test after Christmas, since it supposedly has more detailed results.

I thought I would post an update and maybe... process things a bit. The very nature of DNA is extremely personal so I understand if most people are not terribly interested.

I have chased that L2a1 on my direct maternal line to the 1760's. We are still in the United States with one male ancestor who was in the Revolutionary War. Very, very British with no hint of an African ancestor on that mother to mother line. I have hit a brick wall here with this woman (the second wife of the revolutionary war "hero"), and she apparently just dropped out of the clouds. The people down this maternal line were educated, with money and influence that lasted well into the 1800's so I'm not sure why there is no record of her parents. However, The Bahamas was listed as a country of origin and apparently I have a great deal in common genetically with a lot of people there. I am even more confused then when I started.

To make matters worse I have told three members of my family of my results; my parents (who were interested) and my sister, who was horrified. My sister is where things began to go terribly wrong. Her husband is 20 years her senior and apparently a racist. I had no idea. My sister accused me of making this up and wanted proof, so I linked her to the 23andme mtDNA haplogroup page which explained it. I adjusted the settings so that only she and my mother could see it and she Completely Flipped Out! She, (or possibly my mother), then told some of my aunts who are angry as well I guess, although I haven't heard from them personally (yet). By second hand information, most think that I am making it up or that I am misinterpreting the information, or that there must be some mistake.

I have been chastised by my mother and told to only speak of it to her and if it comes up, to play off the African ancestry as a mistake that I made in interpretation or the site has made in analyzing the DNA. "Don't you dare tell them" is what I have been told. I am not to mention that L2a1 haplogroup or (apparently) the Ashkenazi Jewish ancestry that came up on the autosomal DNA. It's going to be a rather awkward Christmas.

By their way of thinking either I am a liar or stupid or the science is wrong. Three layers of denial that cropped up immediately and with alacrity. I am astonished and... Sad frankly. It all seems so cliché that I feel like I am in a bad narrative, so there is certain amount of frustration as well I suppose. I am trying to stay rational but I am deeply hurt by the allegations against my honesty, and the bigotry I am seeing. I was not raised this way; at least, I didn't think that I was. Maybe, I just always ignored it...? I don't know.

a reply to: redhorse

I just came across your thread while sipping on my coffee this morning and I had to sign in to respond.

Don't take anything your family says about the DNA results to heart. As wrong as it is, and it is, their minds are already set. Continue your research and don't let them make you feel bad for it. Older family members sometime balk at certain aspects of their own lives that were looked down upon by older generations. My almost 80 year old grandma told me once that I had no business investigating the Lakota part of our family, and we are only a couple of generations removed. She still to this day refuses to provide any information, and she has it. My cousins won't even help me out. She did however tell me she would provide our lineage back to the Mayflower. That still hasn't happened either, but that's beside the point. The pride in the European family lines is almost kind of sad, and eclipsed only by the disdain for anything that may sully that.

We can't force people to change their minds about things, but we can continue to expand our own world by seeking truth. Congratulations on finding out so much about your DNA results, the idea has always fascinated me. I wish I had more for you on the original discussion, sorry. Your family's response shouldn't change your path though.

Merry Christmas!

I did my ancestry through Ancestry.com and downloaded the genetic material to livewello to analyze, it is the best thing I have done. I also had both daughters, the wife, and two grandchildren with health problems done.

What did I find out? Well, I found out I have as much if not more Finn in me than most Finns. I haven't decided if that is good or bad yet.

I found out that both daughters, each from a different wife, are definitely mine. I'm not sure that is a good thing, I can't blame the things they don't think about on the slight possibility that they might not be my kids anymore. Their genetic health problems are partially because of me.

I found out that my wife is a mutt and so are my grandchildren. My son-in-law who's father was supposed to be Spanish turns out to actually be Greek or Italian. His mother was almost entirely Native American though, they qualify anyone that was on the American continents together as Native Americans. It doesn't mean they qualify for Native American classification in the USA.

The Livewello App is the important to me, lots of mutations and other gene corrections that help cancel out many of the negative effects. Using this I should be able to identify the root causes of much of our family health problems. I have to take into consideration as many of the gene corrections I can find. It is a lot of research to do this properly, I have read about two thousand research reports and corresponding articles to be able to interpret the results so far and need to read about another ten thousand to understand this more. Many of the things I am reading is to try to understand what they are talking about. There is a lot of stuff that is unknown yet in this field so I have to keep this in consideration. Some things show direct links while others show increased susceptibility, it is critical to identify the parameters of the evidence.

So with all six reports we have less than seven hundred bucks invested in this. If I can identify a way to help with some of our health problems from this information I could save this much in deductibles on insurance. I have found possibilities that can help to guide me from this, and I have already tested some of this stuff on myself with good results over the years which I can now understand better and possibly apply this to a varying degree to help my offspring.