Question about an Independent Eastern Ukraine

Should the South and East of Ukraine vote and form their own government, declaring their independence from Ukraine, should special requirements be forced on them?

Specifically -
* - Should South / East Ukraine be prevented from joining Russia?
* - Should South / East Ukraine be forbidden from hosting Russian military units?
* - Should South / East Ukraine be forced to be a non aligned nation?
* - Should South / East Ukraine be prohibited from joining any security agreements with Russia?
* - Should South / East Ukraine be prohibited from joining any economic entity that Russia is a part of.

Yes? No? Why? Why not?

If people don't think any of the above should be an issue then why is it demanded by Russia towards Ukraine?

a reply to: Xcathdra

I`ll give the answer you want to hear to get it over : Putin !

Why not? Who's right is it to impose such restrictions on a sovereign state?a reply to: Xcathdra

originally posted by: funkadeliaaaa
Why not? Who's right is it to impose such restrictions on a sovereign state?a reply to: Xcathdra

That's been my position on Ukraine. The questions asked above are the restrictions Russia placed on Ukraine.

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
a reply to: Xcathdra

I`ll give the answer you want to hear to get it over : Putin !

Maybe you should re-read the op and actually answer the questioned asked instead of derailing the thread.

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
a reply to: Xcathdra

I`ll give the answer you want to hear to get it over : Putin !

That's been my position on Ukraine. The questions asked above are the restrictions Russia placed on Ukraine.

Im not deconstructing thar now, but go ahead deconstruct, im listening.take your time

originally posted by: Xcathdra
Should the South and East of Ukraine vote and form their own government, declaring their independence from Ukraine, should special requirements be forced on them?

Specifically -
* - Should South / East Ukraine be prevented from joining Russia?
* - Should South / East Ukraine be forbidden from hosting Russian military units?
* - Should South / East Ukraine be forced to be a non aligned nation?
* - Should South / East Ukraine be prohibited from joining any security agreements with Russia?
* - Should South / East Ukraine be prohibited from joining any economic entity that Russia is a part of.

Yes? No? Why? Why not?

1 My understanding is that the don't want to be a part of Russia. They are their own nation.
2 That is up to them,after all Ukraine is doing it.
3 I don't think any country should be 'forced' into anything,that is part of what started all this.
4 Just like Russia told Ukraine,they could join up with the EU,but only if it didn't prohibit them from Russia,so too should South/East Ukraine be able to join whatever security or economic groups they want,just so long as it doesn't keep them from having others as well.

If people don't think any of the above should be an issue then why is it demanded by Russia towards Ukraine?

Task completed, despite the possibility of attacks most of the residents of Novorussia voted for freedom.



Show me please an election with such attendance in the so called "west"!

Self-determination denotes the legal right of people to decide their own destiny in the international order. Self-determination is a core principle of international law, arising from customary international law, but also recognized as a general principle of law, and enshrined in a number of international treaties. For instance, self-determination is protected in the United Nations Charter and the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights as a right of “all peoples.”

Self determination (international law)

originally posted by: Dimithae
If people don't think any of the above should be an issue then why is it demanded by Russia towards Ukraine?

That would be the 64k dollar question.

a reply to: maghun

None of which has anything to do with the question I asked. This is not difficult.. I asked some questions about the elections and why the same standards Russia has demanded of Kiev should not be considered for East / South Ukraine.

For the purpose of this debate the legality of the elections in East / South Ukraine are not a consideration.

With that stated and to directly answer your post -
There were no international election monitors present.
There was no minimum turnout requirement as voter rolls could not be confirmed.
Finally it violated the peace treaty the rebels signed for a referendum in December.

a reply to: Xcathdra

But Russia DID ask them to postpone the referendum and they refused. So that part is not Russia's fault. I would expect no less than the international committee to refuse to monitor. Anytime they don't want to allow any group to have their rights they don't come. They only come for 'certain' people. They need to really come here and watch our elections,god only knows we need someone to watch what is happening. And finally,I would suppose getting a voter roll to see who is on it would be almost impossible in east or south Ukraine right about now. Too many dead and missing.

a reply to: Xcathdra

be prevented from
be forbidden from
be forced to be
be prohibited

They will decide what to do. They are not interested in what the so called "west" says, they fought for their freedom with weapons and they had won.

They are independent now and as Putin stated some days ago, the "opinion" of the "rest" are useless...

originally posted by: Dimithae
But Russia DID ask them to postpone the referendum and they refused. So that part is not Russia's fault.

Yet they are going to recognize the results. Would it not be incumbent for Russia NOT to recognize the elections since they are done outside of the agreed upon treaty?

originally posted by: Dimithae
I would expect no less than the international committee to refuse to monitor. Anytime they don't want to allow any group to have their rights they don't come. They only come for 'certain' people.

The reason for lack of international monitors is because the elections violate international law. Specifically the votes must be held in accordance with Ukraine's constitution. They have noted this a few times now when asked about it. The same occurred during the crimea vote. The OSCE declined to participate because Crimea was not allowed to request the monitors.

originally posted by: Dimithae
They need to really come here and watch our elections,god only knows we need someone to watch what is happening.

I dont know what country you live in so im not sure how to reference it. As for the US we do have international monitors come to our elections and monitor them. The issues that cropped up boiled down to International monitors wanting to engage voters in a manner that violated several state laws.

originally posted by: Dimithae
And finally,I would suppose getting a voter roll to see who is on it would be almost impossible in east or south Ukraine right about now. Too many dead and missing.

Then the result of the elections should be questioned. Its one of the reasons I noted the lack of minimum turnout.

originally posted by: ExSmokerYes
a reply to: Xcathdra

Yet another Russia thread from our infamous member Xcathdra

I don't need to read news or think at all. To know what's going on all I need to do is read his threads and assume complete opposite is true.

easy

So you just popped in to derail the thread and launch personal attacks.

Mission accomplished.

Do you have anything on the questions posed?

originally posted by: maghun
They are independent now and as Putin stated some days ago, the "opinion" of the "rest" are useless...

That is a 2 way street is it not?

a reply to: Xcathdra

That is a 2 way street is it not?

It was one way street for decades... With "sandwich boards" like Conchita "Eurovision Sausage".

Listen carefully: Brzezinski fears global awakening in 2012 (why fear?).

a reply to: maghun

Nothing prevented Russia from doing their things in the world.

a reply to: Xcathdra

So here is an important question. Ukraine is NOT a member of either the EU or NATO. Therefore what happens there really isn't a concern for them,including elections land grabs or anything else.And NATO plain has no stake in it at all since they are not a member,so they need to stay out. So why are they there? And why did the head of our CIA go there and then things became really violent right after that?

a reply to: Xcathdra

Nothing prevented Russia from doing their things in the world.

Then you haven't been keeping up with the news. For surely they are trying. Putin is just walking around them and finding other ways of doing business.