Currency FREE spacetravel

Based on TODAYS available technologies
or "upcoming" tech, like 5-10years from
now TOPS...

How far into space would it be possible to go
for humans. NOT robots or probes...?

And HOW??

The table is CLEAR, no money or other currency
is to be in the equations. And no turfpi$$ing...

Everyone is EAGER to chip in and do WHATEVER
they can. Not only govmnts but ordinary ppl
aswell....

No hidden agendas, no conspirasys and NO ALIENS
or channeling or fantasytech...

I know about the "warpdrive" being theorized about
but imho thats to far ahead...

And here i hand the mic to the audience............

originally posted by: Miccey
Based on TODAYS available technologies
or "upcoming" tech, like 5-10years from
now TOPS...

How far into space would it be possible to go
for humans. NOT robots or probes...?

And HOW??

The table is CLEAR, no money or other currency
is to be in the equations. And no turfpi$$ing...

Everyone is EAGER to chip in and do WHATEVER
they can. Not only govmnts but ordinary ppl
aswell....

No hidden agendas, no conspirasys and NO ALIENS
or channeling or fantasytech...

I know about the "warpdrive" being theorized about
but imho thats to far ahead...

And here i hand the mic to the audience............

Based on what I've read about Space travel, the VASMIR rocket was the best option for fast travel through Space but I believe that option was dropped back in the 70's, unfortunately.

The Variable Specific Impulse Magnetoplasma Rocket (VASIMR) is an electro-magnetic thruster for spacecraft propulsion. It uses radio waves to ionize and heat a propellant, and magnetic fields to accelerate the resulting plasma to generate thrust. It is one of several types of spacecraft electric propulsion systems.

The method of heating plasma used in VASIMR was originally developed as a result of research into nuclear fusion. VASIMR is intended to bridge the gap between high-thrust, low-specific impulse propulsion systems and low-thrust, high–specific impulse systems. VASIMR is capable of functioning in either mode. Costa Rican born American scientist and former NASA astronaut Franklin Chang Díaz created the VASIMR concept and has been working on its development since 1977.[1]
VASIMRs are manufactured by the Ad Astra Rocket Company, headquartered in the city of Houston, Texas, United States

en.wikipedia.org...

There's some new technologies out there nowadays but I think most of it is still on the drawing board with the exception of Solar Sails, however. My two cents....

Mmm...
Just watched a vid on tube about ionized rocket sats...
But i see no validity to "human" travel in them...
You would need to UPSCALE like mad... And
it would still take alot of time to travel..

But i suppose it is an option, if you dont mind
being stuck in space your whole life....

But if you hear me out on this...

Building cost = 0
Technology = FREE meaning you can use WHATEVER is available today
or in the verry near future
Labour = FREE everyone is willing and able

We have some solid theories on fusion,
or if we must, nuclear.
Graphen is a verry promising material.
Water, food and breathing has come a
LOOONG way since the spaceprogram era.

Use the imignitation i know you all have..
BUT it has to be real or near real....

a reply to: Miccey

Take the compact fusion reactor announced by Lockheed recently (assuming it actually works) and add a nozzle to it.

If that doesn't work out, try the same with an inertial confinement fusion setup.

I feel that until we can somehow achieve relativistic travel, we should focus on either putting people in stasis (saw an article on here about that not too long ago), or doing something like hollowing an asteroid and making a livable space inside it where generations could live. Your great grandkids might land somewhere, for example. If they spin the thing fast enough, there might even be some kind of gravity where the outside perimeter becomes the floor, a la Ender's Battle School.

Might biological factors be harder to overcome than technical aspects of long distance/duration space travel?

Ok im gonna try to reply to all, im a bit lost when it
comes to multiple quotes in the same reply...

@ Moebius: Sounds interesting, compact fusionreactor...
Any chance of scaling it up?

@TBT: Mmm same as with ionpropulsion...
In my own liking "to slow"... But sure an option
if all other fails....

@philozofer: Could you elaborate a bit?
Fear of radiation and such? We could build the
outer hull with grapheneplating and have inner
shielding combined with water perhaps?

For material to build we "could" use asteroid mining.
Build small ionthrusted ships and tow the asteroids
into close orbit. Mine the suckers dry and hurl the
leftovers to the sun....

a reply to: Miccey

The general motto in fusion research has been to scale up to make it work in the first place, thinking of ITER and NIF.

Lockheed now seem to claim that a compact configuration would work as well. By compact they mean a 100MW reactor fitting on the back of a large truck btw, which is pretty impressive. Their design also seems to use magnetic mirrors which would allow a simple direct thrust configuration.

Whatever variant it is, fusion based propulsion is the way to go imho. At least for now.

I agree. Fusion is for now..
Next gen would be antimatter.

So, we "may" have propulsion and energy.

The stars is in view...

Now we need shielding from radiation.
As i said graphene and water. The panels
themselfs would be shielding us from micro
meteorites and such, the water in between,
is it possible to use that as shielding against
radiation? Or do we need something more
"fancy", like energetic shielding. EM or something
And the framework for the ship, titanium, steel,
aluminum or......?!?

humans could probably survive a trip to the moon or mars using todays secret space technology (off planet contacts) but otherwise it probably wont be happening anytime soon

originally posted by: blacktie
humans could probably survive a trip to the moon or mars using todays secret space technology (off planet contacts) but otherwise it probably wont be happening anytime soon

Eeeeeee...Braking the Rules: Secret Space Tech. No No No
You´re now a Derailer.

And not happening anytime soon?!?!?
Thats why we are here, we are gonna MAKE it happen...

originally posted by: Miccey
Based on TODAYS available technologies
or "upcoming" tech, like 5-10years from
now TOPS...

How far into space would it be possible to go
for humans. NOT robots or probes...?

And HOW??

The table is CLEAR, no money or other currency
is to be in the equations. And no turfpi$$ing...

Everyone is EAGER to chip in and do WHATEVER
they can. Not only govmnts but ordinary ppl
aswell....

No hidden agendas, no conspirasys and NO ALIENS
or channeling or fantasytech...

I know about the "warpdrive" being theorized about
but imho thats to far ahead...

And here i hand the mic to the audience............

The answer is probably somewhere between 5-30% the speed of light. (Which is pretty fast).

The how doesn't involve real nor in most cases imagined "super secret technology" either.

The method involves laser propulsion/light sail technology.

Lightsails have flown in space already.




And laser propulsion has been tested on the ground as these videos show:




So it would be possible to launch from Earth and accelerate in space a spacecraft with nothing more than light.

No fuels. no mess.

Of course this would require building a network of extremely powerful lasers and that might cause some people to worry but in your scenario everyone is pulling together for the same goal so that's not a concern.

at 30% the speed of light you could get from Earth to a planet around one of the stars of Alpha Centauri (our next door neighbor) in 14 years.

Not bad if money were no object.

Hey Jade, nice to see you join the fun...

Hmm 14years for only 4lgty, ok a little bit to slow still....
But sure as with the other snails, an option... "maybe"

And as you said and i have too... Money isnt even in the equation....
I would have thought that you with your background and studies
would be able to dream abit heavier....

If we need to build a 100 new LHC´s to come up with the
antimatter needed so be it... Build away...

originally posted by: Miccey
Hey Jade, nice to see you join the fun...

Hmm 14years for only 4lgty, ok a little bit to slow still....
But sure as with the other snails, an option... "maybe"

And as you said and i have too... Money isnt even in the equation....
I would have thought that you with your background and studies
would be able to dream abit heavier....

If we need to build a 100 new LHC´s to come up with the
antimatter needed so be it... Build away...

Well I looked at it as a "What could we do NOW if money were no object." question. Right now that's about the best we could do if we had a Manhattan Project + Apollo Project style global space program.

Dreams are different.

I sort of thought along the lines of the Evacuate Earth documentary which had a hypothetical scenario where the Earth was going to be wiped out and a small portion of the population would need to be placed on an ark.

There would be little time to develop and bring forth the infrastructure for theoretical things like fusion rocks or antimatter rockets. (and you'd need more than 100 LHC's to make even a few cubic grams of anti-matter fuel).


No other technology has been developed and tested which can attain those types of velocities yet. There are however designs for things like fusion pulse rockets etc.

The biggest problem with any rocket whether it uses chemical propellent, plutonium. uranium, or even deuterium or even anti-matter is that you're having to accelerate the fuel because fuel has mass.

I'm all about massless acceleration.

So in my dream it would have to be something which used space itself as fuel. Maybe a big hydrogen ramjet (but those kinda are impractical) or perhaps using the fabric of space/time itself as fuel?

Like I said there are some wild ideas out there with varying degrees of scientific plausibility but nothing we could manufacture tomorrow like the laser propelled / light sail craft.

BTW: Here is Evacuate Earth if you haven't seen it. I highly recommend it because there is a lot of real world science in it which they talk about:

Sure did see that docu Jade.. But its not really what im after..
We are not under any threat or timeconstraints..

You talk about mass, and i know in space/vacuum
wight is irrelevant right, so is mass any different
in the aspect of acceleration?

Im going to add the Alcub WarpDrive as an example...
They say it would need Negative energy, is there
today ANY way of acctually finding out if it even
exist? IF lets say patents and ideaowning is also
not in the equation... And they are not, in all
scenarios...

originally posted by: Miccey
Sure did see that docu Jade.. But its not really what im after..
We are not under any threat or timeconstraints..

You talk about mass, and i know in space/vacuum
wight is irrelevant right, so is mass any different
in the aspect of acceleration?

Im going to add the Alcub WarpDrive as an example...
They say it would need Negative energy, is there
today ANY way of acctually finding out if it even
exist? IF lets say patents and ideaowning is also
not in the equation... And they are not, in all
scenarios...

Weight and Mass are two different things.

I suggest a basic physics course if you really want to to delve into these subjects.

Anything with mass takes energy to put it in motion. It's basic Newtonian physics.

Now if you want to approach significant fractions of the speed of light you have the added problem that the more mass you accelerate the more massive you become. That's Einstein relativity.

So massless propulsion is the way to go.

And how do we apply a "sail" system to a ship
in the "evacuate" scenario, wouldnt that be
amazingly massive... ???

A "nuclear" aproach in that case is imho more
plausible...

If you aply a sail and accelerate to 5-30% c,
how do we stop once we get were we are
going?

You said a ARRAY or "alot" of lasers, wouldnt
it be more practical to have that laser on
board, if it is possible imean.. Could be
powerd by fission maybe...

And yes i need more "education" i admit
that... Im a dreamer, but i dont want this
to get like a scifi movie were there´s more
fi than sci and all the irrelivant drama....

originally posted by: Miccey
And how do we apply a "sail" system to a ship
in the "evacuate" scenario, wouldnt that be
amazingly massive... ???

Sure but it unfolds and is fairly thin. Did you watch the Lightsail 1 or IKAROS videos I posted?

A "nuclear" aproach in that case is imho more
plausible...

Not when

1) Nuclear rockets would actually slower than laser driven sails. They're great for interplanetary travel within the solar system but not interstellar travel.

2) Nuclear fuel takes up mass and you end up with the same problem of accelerating not only your crew but your fuel.

3) Nuclear rockets have never been tested in space.

If you aply a sail and accelerate to 5-30% c,
how do we stop once we get were we are
going?

Great question.

One idea is that you can electrically charge it. It becomes what's called a magsail and as it encounters the "solar wind" (it wouldn't be solar of course since it's another star) of say Alpha Centauri B the magnetic charge of the sail causes drag as it encounters the denser charged particles of the solar wind so the closer it gets to the destination star system the more is slows down.

You said a ARRAY or "alot" of lasers, wouldnt
it be more practical to have that laser on
board, if it is possible imean..

No because the advantage of having the lasers not on board is that you don't need to power them from mass on board the ship.

No mass, no problem.

Leave the lasers back in the Solar System on the moon or wherever. You could power lasers powerful enough to do an interstellar mission from solar power in the inner solar system (between the Sun and Mars).

Could be powerd by fission maybe...

Which would require putting fissionable materials into a rocket or mining them in space. Another level of complexity and people are not crazy about putting radioactive material into rockets which as we've seen again this week sometimes fail in spectacular ways.

And yes i need more "education" i admit
that... Im a dreamer, but i dont want this
to get like a scifi movie were there´s more
fi than sci and all the irrelivant drama....

Well there are free courses online in basic physics and plenty of other stuff. You can do them at your own pace. That's the wonderful thing about the internet. You can learn just about anything for free if you want to do it out of curiosity or for self improvement.

Degrees however, are a different matter.

Ohhh noo...Not interested in showing of....
Its pure selfishness... I want to know...

When i said powerd by fission i meant like
nuclear submarines..
Small powerplant onboard powering the laser..?

When i read your posts i get the feeling like
there IS a ratio or link between mass and wight...
The plants doesnt need to be big. Just enough
to power the lasers...

One more...
The size of the sails??

Pretty big right, and as such pretty easy to get
damaged by micro to small meteorites no??