Top 20 Next-Gen Combat Rifles

originally posted by: TDawgRex

originally posted by: riffraff
a reply to: SubTruth
What's wrong with the kale-tec ksg? I've been wanting one for a few years but every time I scrounge up $900 life gets in the way.

The KSG is a fine shotgun. I've fired it with no issues. But a combat shotgun it is not. It's more of a specialized weapon. Home-defense or room clearing maybe. But I wouldn't touch it as my primary weapon.

Anything made by Kel-tec is crap do not just take my word for it read reviews and check out what the gun geeks think. Taurus.......DPMS........New Busmasters are crap. Older Bushmasters are top notch.


I have owned the PMR-30 and the Sub2000 both are crap. They make tacticool looking crap that does not hold up under use.

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originally posted by: riffraff
a reply to: SubTruth
What's wrong with the kale-tec ksg? I've been wanting one for a few years but every time I scrounge up $900 life gets in the way.

If you want a good shotgun save a little longer and buy a Benelli M4. This is combat shotgun. If you want a cheaper gun that is still 100x better than a Kel-Tec buy a Remington.

a reply to: HardCorps
Wanna know something cool? The beretta arx actually comes in 7.62x39 and takes AK mags. This is the reason the Central Asian countries adopted it


India is strongly considering it for this very reason. They prefer AKs for close quarters and 5,56 for range, and the ARX can swap barrels and receiver for either!!

a reply to: Lipton

That's the word on 'em, so far.

Like any other new release, it's going to have its share of bugs. Let's see how it is in a couple, three, years when they've ironed out the bugs a tad.

I've shot it, too. With exactly the issues you encountered...but I think there is real potential in it.

Until then? I'll stick with my Stoeger coach dbl. It does everything well.

a reply to: roguetechie

Our experiences are different then...

I've had no issues at all with it.

Feeds perfectly so far. 'course early days with it so far. It was expensive, probably more than it needed to be, I'll give you that. Other than that? No issues as of yet.

originally posted by: Ridhya
a reply to: HardCorps
Wanna know something cool? The beretta arx actually comes in 7.62x39 and takes AK mags. This is the reason the Central Asian countries adopted it

India is strongly considering it for this very reason. They prefer AKs for close quarters and 5,56 for range, and the ARX can swap barrels and receiver for either!!

All ar platform rifles can do this as far as the barrel and receiver. It is not something special about the berretta.

You can find AR upper receiver assemblies in these calibers any given day....


.17 Remington
.17/223
.20 Tactical
.20 Practical
.20 Vartag
.204 Ruger
.221 Fireball
.222 Remington
.222 Remington Magnum
.223 Remington (5.56x45mm)
.223 Remington Ackley Improved
6x45mm
6mm TCU
6x47mm
6mm Whisper
.25x45mm
6.5mm Whisper
7mm Whisper
7mm TCU
.300 Whisper (.300/221, .300 Fireball)
.338 Whisper

223 WSSM
5.45x39mm (.21 Genghis)
243 WSSM
6mm PPC
6mm WOA
6mm BR Remington
6mm Hagar
6.5mm PPC
6.5 WSSM
6.5 WOA
6.5mm Grendel
25 WSSM
6.8x43mm SPC
.30 Herrett Rimless Tactical (6.8x43mm case trimmed to 41mm and necked up to .308; the 6.8mm version of the .300 Whisper)
7.62x25
7.62x39mm
.30 RAR
300 OSSM
.357 Auto
.35 Gremlin (necked up 6.5 Grendel to 358)
.358 WSSM (various names, but all are some form of a WSSM necked up to 35 caliber, some are shortened to make them big game legal in Indiana)
.458 SOCOM
.50 Action Express
.50 Beowulf

.17 HMR
.22 LR
.22 WMR
9x19mm
9x21
9x23
30 Carbine
357 Sig
40S&W
400 Cor-Bon
41 Action Express
10mm Auto
45 GAP
45ACP
45 Super
45 Win Mag

Then there are upper that convert it to bolt action for use with .50 BMG .338 lupua magnum .416 barret and others.

I am sure I left off a couple, i think i left out the .300 acc blackout.

originally posted by: HardCorps

Beretta ARX100
Specifications
•Caliber: 5.56mm NATO
•Barrel: 16 inches
•OA Length: 35.75 inches
•Weight: 6.8 pounds (empty)
•Stock: Folding, collapsible
•Sights: Flip-up front and rear
•Action: Piston-operated semi-auto
•Finish: Matte black
•Capacity: 30+1

I'd have to get a feel for them to really decide, I like the familiar look to this one though. Shorter barrel of course.

a reply to: SM2


Ugh my good post was ate... but while you're right about most being far from revolutionary, the Russians beat us to fwd ejection (tube and side spitter type also!) And downward eject behind magazine too for that matter, but basically none of these rifles are AR15 Based! Most of them owe much more to the AR 18 and m1 carbine!

Realistically George kellgren the m17s people mgi military masterpiece arms and desert tactical arms are the only mainstream OEM'S even coming close to really pushing the envelope and building new stuff. Everyone else is just rehashing old stuff, usually badly!

The mgi hydra has a faster and IMHO better qcb and caliber change setup than any of the polymer and extruded aluminum ar18's playing dress up.... all with sticker prices well into 16 year old's first car price ranges... (oh and I have voted early and often for the hydra with the only thing that really matters, MY WALLET)

Sadly even these guys.... aren't anything special. Which is why the maker community is exploding into popularity so huge in this and hundreds of other markets! As usual, rather than take the hint adjust to economic reality and work to make customers happy big business is colluding with the nanny state totalitarians to scaremonger and get the people who are tired of paying too much for too little declared enemies of the state!!

Then again many of the attitudes present in this thread directly contribute to the big boys' continued abilities to do this.... for example I saw comments that started with "everyone knows" ... first off most but not all statements that start with this are crap! Especially when it comes to firearms. I can't tell you how much of what "everyone knows" is so wrong it's pathetic, but a good rule of thumb is to immediately tune out EVERYTHING SAID AFTER THAT!!

Sadly even a basic level of knowledge about a firearm actually owned by someone making a comment is unlikely to be accurate in my experience. Get into the origins and history of something someone owns..... yeah get ready to hear a torrent of stupid! And that's for common stuff!

a reply to: SLAYER69

Edit to add: you should all check out the msbs radon .... the factories are ramping up and I'd bet money we could see something in time for next year's SHOT show stateside! Between being basically magpul's retry at getting Masada to the public... it's also got heavy potential to be the fal of this era. Extreme modularity (so extreme that the bullpup and standard configuration retain astonishing parts interchange ability!) And top notch build quality combined with Poland being in the position it is currently could see this rifle adopted far and wide. Barring something major I think we may see Germany France and the UK all adopt it eventually... this could turn it into a de facto right arm of the free world gun.

Why a shorter barrel slayer?? Do you hate bullets that fly straight and flat lol?

Also I've handled one of these and unfortunately it has nearly the same tactical bluefin feel of the fn f2k.... (bought an f2000 years ago... liked it other than the tactical aquatic taxidermy ergos...)

Personally I've pretty much given up on new big brand guns.... if it's not communist, old, french (no I'm not high lol *waits for nearly new only dropped once comments*), or doesn't require at least 4 hours in auto desk and an excuse to hit harbor freight I don't want it lol.

That could be a result of the OCD and aspergers though lol.

originally posted by: stirling
Droooool.....
Whats with the influx of 308 redesigns....is 556 not doing the job effectively enough.....
This resurgence seems odd, as there are some way better calibers that basically take the 308 and neck it to another bullet....
6 mm comes to mind, but the 243 doesn't get a mention....
is it body armour or vehicle glass or what moves these companies to bring back the 308.......
anyways...its a fair all round round....and worked well for the rifles of the past....but there is so much more available now, in ammo and bullets....
so much for musing....

During the Gulf war we found ourselves often out distanced... 5.56 mm rifles have an effective range of 450–600 meters less in the short barreled M4.

But the Russian SVDS firing the 7.62x39 round have a max effective range of 1200 to 1300 meters... most often the bad guys would just stay out around 800 meters ... out of our range but we were well within there's.

Photo below is of a standard issue SVDS kit


There's also an issue of the 7.62x39 having more kinetic energy... more penetration than the 5.56 too.

So a lot of solders want the greater range that a .308 can offer... the trade off being heaver weapon, fewer rounds 20 as opposed to the 30 in M16 mag. But able to punch threw a car door. At range...

But when we talk about CQB... the M4 is king... sure it has a smaller round but when your performing confined space entry that shorter weapon is way faster to bring on target.

while on that subject... the Russian SpetsNaz troops have a wicked little stubby of their own, called the OTs-14 “Groza”


it comes in two versions... one fires the standard 7.62x 39 but the other shoots a 9 x 39 subsonic round never seen one in real life but I'm told it's damn near silent in single fire mode.

a reply to: roguetechie

Well the scar uses the lower receiver design, trigger pack and fire control group, as well as mags from the AR-15/M4 platform. Granted the bolt carrier group is beefed up, refined and heavier is also piston driven

The DPMS recon is an AR10, which is just a .30 ar-15 , nothing new about it except it is a new ar-10.

The bushmaster is a retry of the failed Magpul Masada which is basically a SCAR made by Remington rather than FN (Remington owns bushmaster)

The berretta...well its pretty much junk. Which pains me to say, because I am a fan of berretta firearms. The arx has a price tag of $1400 +, so yeah its cheaper than a scar, ACR, but more expensive than a quality ar15.

It has a reputation for too frequent jams, sub par accuracy out of the box it gets beat by just about any ~ $1000 ar15, trigger pack is crap, from what I have read, it feel like a cheaply made firearm. To be fair, I have never handled this particular rifle, but I have yet to read a good review on it.

I have no experience with the bull pup rifles listed, so I can not speak to those. However of the rest of them are just retreads of previous rifles. The SCAR is the closest to a new design, and it just a combination of previous designs, taking the best from each really.

Of course, I could be wrong, and this is just my opinion and observations.

a reply to: SM2
You're wrong there, none of those take AK mags. Thats the whole point, the Beretta ARX can take AK mags. What you listed uses indigenous mags.

No serious military rifle is going to be multicaliber unless it means swapping over an entire with optic....like the cheaper and already available ar15.

This fantasy that special forces will carry 2 uppers etc is just that, these folks are about precision not gimmicks. If they need to shoot ak rounds they will pack aks.

I've owned all of those and not one is a real contender, the closest is the acr but only in the much improved single caliber military version that the poles adopted for sf and then produced a copy of, fair play as magpul based it off and evolution of the proven g36 system. All it needs is 2 round burst and a widespread adoption of the 6.5 round to be unbeatable, unless militaries adopt the new generation of electronic aiming and firing solutions like tracking point.

a reply to: circuitsports
Um no one said they would be carrying multiple receivers. And yes several militaries use multicalibre Berettas! I just demonstrated that.

The Indians are going to adopt it precisely because it is multicalibre. They use 7,62x39 for urban and 5,56 for ranged combat.

originally posted by: Ridhya
a reply to: circuitsports
Um no one said they would be carrying multiple receivers. And yes several militaries use multicalibre Berettas! I just demonstrated that.

The Indians are going to adopt it precisely because it is multicalibre. They use 7,62x39 for urban and 5,56 for ranged combat.

The civilian berretta arx 100 is a 5.56 nato rifle.

www.beretta.com...

Secondly, they are not multi caliber, they switch them over prior to deployment, depending on the mission parameters. You make it sound like all they do is swap magazines back and forth. Which could not be the case as a 5.56 NATO is a .22 caliber projectile (same diameter as a .22 LR) and the 7.62x 39 is a .30 caliber round, projectile is the same diameter as a .308. Add in the case dimensions and there is no way that you could fire them interchangeably without changing out the upper receiver assembly so you have the correct chamber, bolt etc

a reply to: SM2
Obviously you cant fire a projectile too large for a barrel through said barrel. Duh.

The ARX has a version which takes AK mags, I repeat I posted a photo above, and it is for this reason that the Indian army is going to adopt it. They need a modular platform that can adapt for 5,56 with stanag mags, 7,62 with ak mags, and some new 6mm calibre. Hence the ARX.

They need a modular rifle with magazine/ammunition commonality to their stockpile of AKs, without having to buy an entire new rifle to use different calibres. The Central Asian countries adopted it because of said commonality to their standard issue AKM mags/ammo.

a reply to: Ridhya

the new 6mm caliber is the 6.8mm Remmington SPC, not really new, been around since around 2002. it was designed to bridge the gap between a 5.56 and the 7.62 nato rounds.


en.wikipedia.org...

"Different calibers are planned by changing out the barrel, bolt, lower receiver, and magazine. In addition to 5.56 NATO, 7.62×39mm and 6.8mm Remington SPC configurations are planned, as well as the possibility of 5.45×39mm. A prototype heavy version is chambered for the 7.62×51mm NATO as a battle rifle.[2]"

I was not debating the modular design, just clarifying because they way you presented the information.

a reply to: HardCorps
"But the Russian SVDS firing the 7.62x39 round have a max effective range of 1200 to 1300 meters... most often the bad guys would just stay out around 800 meters ... out of our range but we were well within there's."

The SVD uses 7.62x54R battle rifle rounds, similar in power to the .30-06/.308 rifle rounds, and is a sniper rifle. The Mosin-Nagant uses the 7.62x54R and in your photo, you can see the rimmed cartridges. The 7.62x39 is used in the AK and is the Russian version of the Nazi 7.92x33 used in the STG-44.

a reply to: circuitsports

Ummm.....no....

First off proven g36? Mwahahaha!!!!!

Yeah proven to be so bad ze German friggin' Parliament is launching a MASSIVE INQUIRY into who exactly took a bribe big enough to get that POS INTO SERVICE!!!!

Oh and they've stopped ALL procurement of even spare parts!

Next .... the ACR crap that was spewed.... Poland didn't steal jack... Magpul owns the design because they designed it! Remington and bushmaster both screwed the pooch!! So when MSBS radon project came up they hired consultants from magpul to help them.

Personally I am 100% sure that the supposed plateau in small arms technology right now is more due to the big companies and old guard firearm media managing to bamboozle a large part of the gun buying public into accepting the same CRAP that they mostly found a way to con some government or federal agency into buying enough of some crap to justify the expense of building a product line.

Helpful hint.... these agencies employ ACCOUNTANTS ARMORERS AND POLITICAL APPOINTEES all together to decide what to buy!!!

The holy triumvirate of SATAN shakes it's head as it passes weapon buying delegations and they think to themselves oh those poor A HOLES ABOUT TO HVE THIS POS FOISTED ON THEM!

SO LET'S RECAP

greedy bastards, people who GET PAID TO FIX BROKEN GUNS, and cheap people with no imagination and hence easily fooled....these are the people we pay to pick guns at the agency level!!!! On the other side we have competitive bids FOR THE INITIAL WEAPON and PARTS AT COST PLUS .... HINT: THEY MAKE VERY LITTLE TO NEGATIVE PROFIT ON THE INITIAL SHIPMENT FAIRLY OFTEN!!!! They spend YOUR MONEY FOR ALL OF IT!

Deploy your federal reserve notes accordingly...