When Russians were brave.... In space and beat the Americans

Documentary on BBC 4 this evening at 9 pm outlines and details the early space exploration of the Russian cosmonaughts in the early 60's...

www.bbc.co.uk...

Lots of info and near death experiences which gave the Russians the Lead over America....

Regards

pDUK

I suppose one could call the measures taken by the USSR during the Space Race "brave," but I would not go so far. I would rather call it "pride and indifference to human life." The main reason that Russia achieved the number of "firsts" that they did, and were ahead of the US when it came to putting a man in space, had to do with their attitudes towards the lives of their astronauts. Much like the Soviets treated their soldiers during WWII, the lives of their astronauts was not valued. Instead of taking the time and spending the necessary monies to ensure the highest survival rates for their astronauts, they sent them up when there was only a small chance of success. In fact, I think that this was so prevalent an attitude that the USSR probably lost many astronauts, a fact that was buried and never communicated the the public, much less the rest of the world. It would have damaged the reputation of the USSR and their space program too greatly for them to let such a thing be known.

But for all the national pride that the the USSR's leadership thought worth so much, the astronauts themselves were extremely brave. Yet I feel they put too much faith in a system that did not deserve such treatment. Perhaps these men did not understand just how much danger they were placed in. Even if they did, their honor forbade them from backing out, and likely their own government would have treated them harshly. So while they were brave, they were also many other things. This is not to say that they are not deserving of our respect and admiration, as they were simply making the best from the system they were forced to shoulder.

a reply to: JiggyPotamus

It is true that Soviet Man was supposed to serve the State, and therefore sacrifice was to be expected. Nevertheless, the "lost cosmonaut" tales are urban legends, as Jim Oberg will probably pop in to explain.

These brave cosmonauts were pioneers, so deserve all the accolades that come their way, despite the way they were treated by their Government.

Just looking at the training they had to go through to prepare them for a flight into space, looks terrifying.

The U.S astronauts deserve just as much recognition in my book, but make no bones about it, both sides had brave young men willing to put their lives on the line for the sakes of state glory.

Jiggypotamus....

I suggest you watch the BBC documentary currently on BBC 4 as I type or download it it somehow...

Fascinating program which illustrates America was lagging hugely until JFK came onto the scene.....

FairPlay uSSR , CCCP...IMHO

PDUK

The more I watch this program the more I'm left with the feeling that 'IF we as a human race had COMBINED our resources and intelligences then how much MORE advanced would we be Now.......

America Cold War Paranoia really screwed world progress, later followed by America banking etc etc....

originally posted by: PurpleDog UK
Documentary on BBC 4 this evening at 9 pm outlines and details the early space exploration of the Russian cosmonaughts in the early 60's...

www.bbc.co.uk...

Lots of info and near death experiences which gave the Russians the Lead over America....

Regards

pDUK

Very nice write-up, trivial quibbles, no complaints.

The first authentic account of Leonov's troubles was in my 1981 book 'Red Star in Orbit', it was a struggle to pry it loose. And awesome fun.

originally posted by: PurpleDog UK
The more I watch this program the more I'm left with the feeling that 'IF we as a human race had COMBINED our resources and intelligences then how much MORE advanced would we be Now.......

America Cold War Paranoia really screwed world progress, later followed by America banking etc etc....

During that phase, the opposite was true; in later decades, with the collapse of the USSR, real partnerships became possible. Tomorrow -- who knows, it'll be YOUR problem. ;-)

a reply to: PurpleDog UK

I doubt we would have had any space programmes if it wasn't for the space race between the USA and USSR. There was paranoia on both sides, so a bit unfair to just blame the USA.

The bankers already had a hold on the whole world by then anyway, as was evident in WWI, who do you think bankrolled the whole thing anyway?

I know, it was a little strong to blame American paranoia however if only we had acted together then we would have been so much better now.....

Here's to dreaming....... Excellent program BTW......

Strongly recommend it is watched...

PDUK

a reply to: PurpleDog UK

Yes, I am watching it now.

Much is made about the Soviet firsts in space, and while they were the first to put up an artificial satellite and the first to put humans into space, the Soviets were not the first to utilize space in some very important ways we take for granted in our modern lives. The US was the first to launch an active communications satellite, Telstar I (Sputnik transmitted a signal, but it did not relay messages and so was not a communications satellite), as well as the first to successfully launch a weather satellite, Tiros I.

We take this kind of utilization of space for granted these days, but there was a time where these things weren't possible. We take for granted that we live in a world where worldwide live broadcasts happen all the time and even regular people can make "video calls" to friends and relatives anywhere in the world. We take for granted that we live in a world where we can pull up weather satellite observations of our planet on a whim.

Telstar I and Tiros I were important firsts in our modern world that most people have forgotten about. Syncom 2 and 3 were the first geosynchronous and geostationary satellites, respectively, also used for communications purposes - the latter would provide the world's first overseas telecast of the Summer Olympics in 1964. There again the US was the first to utilize a part of space we simply take for granted today.

I have some old pictures of Telstar and Tiros, some of which can be found online, some of which cannot. I'm currently working on putting together some videos about these satellites, their "firsts," and the forgotten history behind it. Some of them are even still in orbit today, and I'll be tracking them with my scope as well to provide some modern footage for future generations to have of the world's first comm and weather satellites.

a reply to: ngchunter

Fair point BUT it wasn't just about Utilising space..... It should have been a time of collaboration and combining of skills and expertise........ But instead it became a race to win...... A lost opportunity in my opinion...

originally posted by: PurpleDog UK
a reply to: ngchunter

Fair point BUT it wasn't just about Utilising space..... It should have been a time of collaboration and combining of skills and expertise........ But instead it became a race to win...... A lost opportunity in my opinion...

I disagree, the Soviets needed to be defeated, not assisted. And frankly, competition frequently brings out humanity's best. I dare say it did so with the space race. It was our capitalistic nature that brought out the utilization of space in these ways before the Soviets did so, even though they had a clear lead in the successful launch of manned and unmanned satellites.

a reply to: ngchunter

The USSR didn't have the need for a Telstar did they? The U.S could see the commercial benefits and as you say because of the capitalistic nature, it succeeded. The USSR n my opinion simply wanted to get one over the USA, in order to drive fear into their population. If they controlled space, then they would be winning the war, and they were for a while.

If they had decided and agreed to fund a mission to the moon around the same time as the USA, then I do wonder who would have got there first. Lagging behind by at least three years, it was always going to be difficult.

There was no commercial value of getting to the moon, unless they were to colonise and start mining it. So it was plain to see that the USA just wanted to save face and smash that fear right back onto the USSR.

originally posted by: Cobaltic1978
a reply to: ngchunter

The USSR didn't have the need for a Telstar did they?

Though perhaps not entirely analogous, the Soviets did have close ties with Cuba. There was therefore certainly reason for them to want instantaneous communication with the other side of the globe. Enough so that they would eventually start launching their Molniya communications satellites beginning two years after Telstar 1 (though it took them about a year to work out the kinks and do it successfully). Their reasons were of course distinctly for military purposes, whereas Telstar 1 was a civilian satellite. Nevertheless, Molniya 1-01, the first successful Soviet communications satellite, was used to relay television signals. Eventually Molniya was used to relay television from the Soviets to Cuba.
history.nasa.gov...

If they had decided and agreed to fund a mission to the moon around the same time as the USA, then I do wonder who would have got there first. Lagging behind by at least three years, it was always going to be difficult.

The N1 rocket was both the main thrust, and the ultimate undoing, of the Soviet moon program. It lived and died by that rocket, though other alternatives were looked at (so too were alternatives looked at in the US program as a backup in case the Saturn V failed, aka, "Advanced Gemini"). The N1 failed to reach orbit every time it was launched, the Saturn V never failed to reach orbit. At the end of the day that was the key distinction that decided the fate of the moon programs. It is interesting to speculate what might have become of the N1 program had Korolev not died in 1966. Perhaps he could have made it succeed. The first launch attempt of the N1 was in February 1969. Had it not failed the race would have been much closer than it was. It might have even gone the other way. Who knows.

There was no commercial value of getting to the moon, unless they were to colonise and start mining it. So it was plain to see that the USA just wanted to save face and smash that fear right back onto the USSR.

No commercial value at the time, no, but I just wanted to chronicle some firsts that are often overlooked, used in day to day life that did have commercial value driving their development.

a reply to: JiggyPotamus

No, but you can call the US stragety for ... bogus.

All explorations, are dangerous ... including when people started to fly, drive, railroad ... no matter what it is, it's dangerous and it requires brave people to take the step, no one has taken before.

Americans, only took that step in a Hollywood studio. And spend a lot of time, using depleted uranium that isn't depleted, to shoot at people who can't defend themselves.

originally posted by: bjarneorn
a reply to: JiggyPotamus
Americans, only took that step in a Hollywood studio.

Wrong.
www.astr.ua.edu...

Interesting read.

I love all things space related.

originally posted by: PurpleDog UK
a reply to: ngchunter

Fair point BUT it wasn't just about Utilising space..... It should have been a time of collaboration and combining of skills and expertise........ But instead it became a race to win...... A lost opportunity in my opinion...

Many share that opinion in hindsight, but it was the Soviet collapse that ended the Cold War that opened the path to closer cooperation, not dreamy idealists. And there was nothing paranoid about Americans watching a philosophy that promised to envelop the whole planet make overt and covert actions, some very bloody, to advance that strategy. Come on, you don't think it was some turf war between rival drug gangs, do you? An easy mental gimmick to avoid taking sides and letting other people bleed and die to protect your own freedoms. Sad. I suppose you're sneering from the sidelines again, these days?

Please read a lot more about the Space Race and its historical context.