5 overlooked Questions we SHOULD be asking about ISIS/ISIL/IS...

i find strange that they had raids here in aus..sydney and brisbane some 800 police raiding potential terorists whom apparently have threatened to abduct random aussie citizens to behead on film for the IS cause...i heard the deputy police minister this morning saying they got their intel from various places including facebook...something just doesnt add up...so no doubt they are looking for the aussie populace to back us sending troops for the cause,which of course our prime minister has already said he will do..

and of course Abbott thinks he is a potential target ...
au.news.yahoo.com...
au.news.yahoo.com...

i should add that out of those 800 odd police and being the biggest terror raids in aus...they caught 1 guy and will be charged for terror related stuff...not mention of details and now they are backtracking saying this was done and as per-emptive solution to sway people not to try a terror attack in aus...very convenient...i smell a rat

a reply to: thesmokingman

I don't see how media made more people join but maybe they're inflating the numbers. When has the Middle East ever been a credible threat to america and please don't say 9/11. I think america suffered from that war more than the ME but not from the actual attack which a lot of people have questions about but from the so-called patriot act. The casualties hit everyone hard because there hasn't been an attack or violence on that level on american soil in so long.

They now do cavity searches on children at airports so that will never happen again lol.
I've always been of the opinion that we should leave other cultures alone and they should leave us alone unless they want to get bombed back to the middle ages. But of course, they have something the rich control freaks want.
You can control the media as much as you want but people are sick of petty little wars.

I'm just waiting to see how far they will go to get the people on board. It took some fake # to get them on board with attacking Iraq. It took some more fake # to get them to attack Afghanistan (really, 3000 to hunt down one dude). They better make the next one good. Like Michael Bay good.

a reply to: ladyinwaiting

Was a reply to a deleted post:

Interesting take. Please note that the ME countries had no interest whatsoever in contributing anything, until they started targeting other muslims.

The American military are paid government employees.

no idea what you're getting at right now with that post. my take was that you could say the same thing about the american military as you said about isis about the whole cult thing. it's been going on for hundreds of years. it's how you get people to die for your fake cause.

a reply to: wtf2008

no idea what you're getting at right now with that post. my take was that you could say the same thing about the american military as you said about isis about the whole cult thing. it's been going on for hundreds of years. it's how you get people to die for your fake cause.

None of the ME countries were willing to join in this fight, until the mass murderers began targeting different sects of their people. When the USA was hit on 9/11, nobody much gave a flying fig but us, and the UK. With an emergent crisis such as our latest, there are global forces willing to join in the fight. I consider this a good sign for the future.

As for believing our military is cultish, as you wish. They do have a contract, I believe, however in the private sector I've also had contacts. It's usually that I agree to work for at least a minimum of two or three years. It's my choice whether to sign it or not.

Ah, and I do remember when the TV ads for the military were "join the army. Travel and see the world. Learn fabulous job skills". lol. So, I guess maybe that's not a huge jump to "bed, board, a wife, and you get to kill lots of people".

I see what you're saying. Meanwhile, I believe that Isis and their ilk are cults, while the American military is not.

Definition of Cult:

system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object.

Cults are typically tied in to religion.

www.amazon.com...

The Mossad: Israel's Secret Intelligence Service
By Dennis Eisenberg

(I)srael
(S)ecret
(I)ntelligence
(S)ervice

i.e. The Mossad, "by way of deception thou shalt wage war."

I have a question about ISIS.

Is it me, or does every picture of these guys have them in crisp clean black uniforms out in that woefully dusty environment? I mean, they're never dirty! I figure after a few dust-ups and gunfights, these guys would be a little
dirtier. I think the action director of this silly little narrative needs to talk to the folks in wardrobe about making them look a little more rough and tumble. It looks silly on my HD TV with these guys in jet black, fresh from the dryer, outfits, and they're supposed to be rolling over the competition.

a reply to: thesmokingman

You dont believe they grew rather quickly due to the MSM, mainly CNN(the governments propaganda machine)

No, CNN has nothing to do with what the group is doing on the ground. Look up old articles and news clips (not even by CNN), look at first hand accounts, journalists in the area...

Funny how the number so quickly grew from about 3 or 4,000, to last I heard 30, 40,000.

Not really, considering they have been scooping up any disillusioned Iraqi plus the surplus of insurgents from the war. In Syria the radicals that were fighting Assad split and the FSA was on one side and IS on the other.

The FSA routinely groups together thousands of people in a week or two when they recruit new people. They have doctors, pharmacists, school teachers, plumbers... etc. Its kind of a joke in a sense, and people on their side are mocking the rag tag groups they amass.

On the other hand, IS recruits former army, police, fundi religious nuts. Any jihadi they can find. Plus they indoctrinate young people and impressionable teens+. They hold large rallies when they control a city and tell people to swear allegiance to them, that they are the Caliphate and they are going to reunite the Islamic Empire.

If this were a credible threat to the US, not a single person would be able to land a flight to Iraq OR Syria without an extensive screening.

Again, not true. And even though I say that I imagine anyone from Syria or Iraq is going to get serious screening. A while back anyone travelling out of Yemen was an instant detainment because of the threats from jihadi moving through that port. There are plenty of flights direct or indirect from enemy nations though, this is the new millennium. Hell even in WWII there was still civilian travel at certain times.

Seems to me, they keep trying to make it seem like the "cool" thing to do for young, angry people, to entrap themselves trying to get "recruited" by FBI/CIA agents acting as ISIS members.

Huh? Normally the US is really bad/blatant in their entrapment schemes, but this one pretty much speaks for itself:
abcnews.go.com...

Good post man.

I agree that it all seems shady and serving the war machine.

We've been funding such groups against Assad for two years. I have no doubts that the US intelligence community knows exactly who is who in ISIS.

originally posted by: thesmokingman
Weve all seen a million threads about this alleged terrorist group, and obviously the debates have gone back and forth as to if the videos are real. If this group is real or servicing the needs of the US/SA/Israel. However, while I enjoy participating in these discussions as much as the next guy/girl, I do believe we are missing some very simple, key questions here.
1. In this day and age where the US(and other countries, but mainly the US), has technology such as drones with the ability to fire a missile with pinpoint accuracy from anywhere around the world,, satellites with the ability to read the time on a wristwatch on anyone from around the world. Why have the US not been able to use these technologies as means to stop them?
2. The NSA. We already know the never ending reach of the NSA, and their ability to listen in, and more than likely see any internet action on any country, any person in the world. Why have the US/NSA not intercepted every single one of the calls, emails, internet transmissions made by this group, and IF they have, it appears nothing has been done to stop anything, nor has it even been mentioned as a possibility, at least by anything I have seen. They have to have an IP address from where the alleged emailed goodbye letter that was apparently sent from Jim Foley to his parents, right?
3. The US is able to impose financial sanctions and freeze assets of most anybody on the planet. Why are ISIS allowed to "make money on their oil profits", like they would want us to believe, and have this great financial power, yet nothing has been done in this area as far as frozen assets, bank account, whatever?
4. Isnt it at least odd to say the least, all ISIS does is benefit the US/SA/Israel and their own personal interests? So far they have played the role of a new boogeyman to instill terror on the American people, so we keep paying gas money for the never ending war machine. They have garnered support by other nations to support US bombs in Syria(which is exactly what we tried to do last year, and failed).
5. Where the hell is Israel in all of this? I mean, I know they just got done with their own conflict, but not even a threat to them from ISIS, nor any support offered in the coalition the US is forming? Seems just a little weird to me. I mean, Israel is ALWAYS being threatened. Not now? They have even threatened Russia and the Pope, but no ill will towards Israel huh?
These are just my opinions obviously, feel free to debate, but lets keep it civil please. Again, these are just the obvious questions I think are being overlooked and really deserve an answer to.

a reply to: filosophia

ISIS bombshell on CSPAN in 1990.

12160.info...

I saw this a few days ago and wondered if it would ever come up here at ATS.

Notice the vid is from 1990.

originally posted by: teamcommander
a reply to: filosophia

ISIS bombshell on CSPAN in 1990.

12160.info...

I saw this a few days ago and wondered if it would ever come up here at ATS.

Notice the vid is from 1990.

Yes! Israel/Saudi/US operation...Great find here!

There is only one question anyone need ask.

What the hell has the current American government been doing for the last 6 years ?

Other than unilaterally declaring the 'war on terror' over ?

AQ/ISIS didn't get the memo obviously.

'Gm is alive, and Bin LAden is Dead' !

'AQ has been decimated' !

AQ just changed their names to ISIS.

As to the rest blah.

a reply to: thesmokingman

So let me do a mental recap.
-Everyone was getting sick and tired of the war in Iraq.
-Al-Quaeda was being mocked as al-CIAduh, not that important, but nevertheless noted
-The war on terror was declared over
-Troops were spent and countries brought them home. Same in Afghanistan.

But Israel is having none of it.
So a new phase in the same plan involves ramping things up anew by
-changing the name to ISIL, ISIS or IS
-redefining the enemy as being more barbaric, more ambitious and above all more threatening and scary to the entire world.
-getting those countries on board who weren't involved in Iraq the first time, such as Canada, (and boy did Harper ever jump to the call.) Includes attacking minority religious citizens of surrounding countries in attempt to get Arabs involved.
-Keep action centered in the Levant area close to Israel, the area it wants to annex.
-Have Obama produce a brand new clarion cry for this new so-called emergency which will recalibrate offensive.


Am I getting warm or am I just too damn cynical?

a reply to: thesmokingman

I think you can get into the nitty gritty details why and such. But the answer to all those questions is really simple. Because the world as you know it, and everything in it is publicized. It only exists with specific group interests, and there ability to transmit that out in various medias and get people to believe it. All these groups are all bigger and smaller then they would like everybody to believe, and no the USA or any other nation does not have the technology to read anybody watch from orbit, or pin point anything from across the world. In some instances yes it can be done, but it means a whole lot less then people think.

Look at it this way, you have the ability to communicate with pretty much anybody across the world, something your ancestors never even dreamed of, you go back some hundred years and it may even be considered magic. But what does all of that really do? Nothing much really. Its all basically a pseudo reality imprinted into peoples heads because of the hive group collective tendencies of the human animal. Basically its why people go to wars for there believes, not because there real, but because for the more people who believe and participate in them the more real they become, and the more power they get.

ISIS like everything else is only as real as everybody makes them out to be, sure they could be some advanced military para unit, who has oilfields and tanks and jetplanes. Or they could just be some guys in the desert who just happen to have come across all that, and besides just because you have a jetplane does not mean you know how to fly one, or keep one supplied, or upkeep one, or any number of hundreds of things. Basically they get all the outdated toys of other nations to play with, because really there kind of useless now a days. A gun without a bullet is useless, a gun without a bullet or any ways of making and manufacturing those bullets and doing so constantly is pretty useless. And a jetplane, well they are only extensions of the war machines upkeept by nations.

Basically its all a show, and sometimes there are real wold consequences to that show. Most of the things that people believe, only really exist in there heads. You take that on a mass scale with millions and millions of people believing the same thing or so called facts, and even if there complete bunk, and over time they will be real to those who believe them. And whats even more funny they will also have real world consequences, its like two kids arguing over who is better Micky Mouse or Donald Duck, both are offcourse makebelieve, but the scrapes that ensue over them are quite real. Or how we have build giant monuments or even cities to make believe deities, but cant even feed a town of people, its why we have satellites which can see from space, and whole tent cities in those societies living off scraps.

So it is the way with nations and powers, they all only exist in peoples heads and as a group they must conform themselfs around that and whatever rules somebody comes up with, not because the rules are important but because its in human nature to do so, no matter if the rules are important or not, or even if there just makebelieve. This site even is nothing but prof of that on how far or fast something can change. Its all basically a mental trick, the clothes make the man, and not the other way around.

a reply to: neo96
That's simple neo96, everything you have been told over the past 6 years has either been bull#, or complete bull#. Its not about what actually happens, its about what people believe happened. The rest is just business as usual. I suppose it may surprise people to come to terms with the fact that everything they thought they knew, is just mostly makebelieve, mixed in with half truths, or straight up lies. And sometimes you even throw a half lie in there, just to spice things up.

Now you have to ask yourself how hard is it really to get a mass group of people to believe in something, sometimes all it takes is a guy in a suit, though now a days he must have charts and graphs as well.

originally posted by: HumansEh
It would appear that IS have friends in very high places.

I believe A game is being played, on a scale so big you would need to stand on the moon to grasp its scale.
A storm is coming though.
A bad one.

I have found that this sort of "profound" statement is common in the conspiracy community. People are always hinting at some secret knowledge or understanding that they have without actually giving evidence or explanation for their reasoning. So I'm just going to start asking for clarification and justification when I see them. So, what makes you think a game is being played that is ushering in this storm? Protocols of the Elders of Zion foretold the manafactuing of a final war between the Christian and Islam too weaken defense of the one world jewish government, is that what you're referencing?

I'd like to reply, and it being so late I'd like to note that I haven't read any of the responses and breezed through the majority of the OP but got the nuts and bolts of it. I read word for word unti I got to this portion:

The NSA. We already know the never ending reach of the NSA, and their ability to listen in, and more than likely see any internet action on any country, any person in the world.

After that portion, I skimmed/speed read through the rest. Forgive me if what I have to point out has already been discussed. If what I have to say has not been discussed, I hope it can become part of the discussion as I see it as an important facet to the topic.

Again the OP stated:

The NSA. We already know the never ending reach of the NSA, and their ability to listen in, and more than likely see any internet action on any country, any person in the world.

I disagree entirely with the premise provided. We do not know the NSA knows everything that happens on the internet we for the large part only believe that the government tracks that data. We do not know it. I would like to point out that it would be very dangerous for a people to believe such a thing when it isn't true. Oppressive governments have always attempted to spread the idea through out their populace that they know everything. It is very convenient in corrupted court systems for a populace to think the government knows everything so their witnesses and evidence is truth.

For instance, the USSR had several double agent defectors in it's time. KGB officials who escaped the Soviet Bloc to the west to defect were often times an operation run by the KGB. People claiming to be defectors would come to the West and say that the KGB knows and documents nearly every conversation that happens in every barber shop, taxicab, shopping store, and phone call. These defectors were quoted in American news papers and the KGB would actually supply those news papers to the "black market" in the Soviet Bloc. They wanted people to know this is what Soviet defectors, who were supposedly risking their lives, were saying. It was the ENTIRE point of their double agent defectors. They were sent to the west to say exactly what they said to add validity and confirmation in their own people's belief that the government knew, and documented, every interaction that occurred. That was the perceived reality in the USSR even though it was largely bogus.

The only thing worse than a government knowing everything about its individuals is a populace that believes the government knows everything when they really don't. And know that governments will go to long lengths to make its people believe such a fiction as that is in their best interests because when that occurs they can make up any "truth" whatever it is and the people will believe them. This is even more dangerous, and likely, in today's world where everything is a computer log that a jury is supposed to accept as legitimate because it came from their government, Google, Apple, or Microsoft. Any log could be simply fabricated and 99.99% of the people in a jury would believe it because an American defector told them it was true...

Now back to the questions not asked about ISIS.

My question that I have yet to hear any one ask, and should, is: Of the estimated thirty to forty five thousands ISIS soldiers, how many were trained by the US and her allies in Iraq and Afghanistan as part of the respective security forces training over the last 10+ years?

I ask because when ever I see ISIS commandos in pictures, their gear looks an awful lot like what I saw us handing out to Iraqi security forces.

This has been a known fact in Iran for quiet a while that ISIS is a creation of western countries and Israel with financial help from the Saudis and Qataris just like their cousins Al CIAda and Talbotan,,but it surprisingly seems like it is news to a lot of people around the world...The Americans wanted Iran to join them to fight their own fabricated enemy to perhaps drain Iran financially or give ISIS members an excuse to sabotage the country and or to get Iran to co operate with them in their boogyman battle of doom so we all live happily together ever after which in all cases they failed, because Iranian officials sent a clear massage to the world that they are not participating in any cruel Hollywood scenario that might be in west's mind,and insisted that the people of the area can very well take care of this crazy bunch of baboons if other people stop intervening and financing the situation.

a reply to: thesmokingman

Good discussion, thanks for starting it. Here are my opinions/answers to your questions:

1) "Why have the US not been able to use (our advanced) technologies as means to stop (the ISIS)?"
I think the ISIS was Spec Ops trained. It's known that our Spec Ops (or ex-Spec Ops Contractors) had to literally hunt up and train a Syrian rebel force about 2009/2010, to lay the groundwork to get into an eventual war in Syria. Mainly because the Bilderberg Elitists want to get their claws into a "proposed" gas/oil pipeline thru Syria from the MidEast to Europe.

security.blogs.cnn.com...
(2012) SOURCES SAY DEFENSE CONTRACTORS TRAINING SYRIAN REBELS IN CHEMICAL WEAPONS

www.washingtonpost.com... ory.html
(2013) U.S. AND JORDAN STEPPING UP TRAINING OF SYRIAN OPPOSITION

So it's quite possible this Syrian rebel force has partially morphed into the ISIS, and/or American Spec Ops have continued to train a larger group of rebels and are now embedded within them. Meaning any "full force" attack on the ISIS would kill our own Spec Ops. Or might prompt the ISIS to retaliate using secret/covert methods only known to American Military Spec Ops. (Remember, we have three secret bases in Kuwait alone, and a command center in Israel. If the ISIS knew all about these from an American Spec Ops perspective, the damage could be huge.)

2) "Why have the US/NSA not intercepted every single one of the calls, emails, internet transmissions made by this group...?"
They may have. But if American Spec Ops are embedded, would we still want to launch a flat-out attack on the ISIS?

Another idea is that Snowden's secret doc release forced many enemies to change their entire system of secret coding. (ie - If they used to say "potato" for a bomb, maybe they have now changed their code-word to something like "gourd". So our Intel Interceptors have to relearn a whole new list of enemy codewords.) So just massive interceptions of enemy calls/e-mails does no good if we still haven't mastered their new coding.

article.wn.com...
TERRORISTS HAVE CHANGED METHODS SINCE SNOWDEN LEAKS

3) "The US is able to impose financial sanctions and freeze assets of most anybody on the planet."
Multiple articles have alluded to the fact that the ISIS is "extremely well funded," with no details. To me, this sounds like "state sponsorship," or that anyone from Iran to Russia to China is helping finance the ISIS. So if the biggest funding sources are known to be frenemy countries, how do we proceed without drawing another super-power into war over the ISIS?

4) "So far (the ISIS) has played the role of a new boogeyman to instill terror on the American people, so we keep paying gas money for the never ending war machine."
With fracking, the U.S. has enough domestic gas/oil being pumped now to start being an oil/gas EXPORTER. Our continued "meddling adventurism" in the MidEast is only at the behest of the Bilderberg Elitists, who want their claws into Syria's "proposed" oil/gas pipeline.

michaelsnyder.mensnewsdaily.com...
(2013) IS THE U.S. GOING TO WAR WITH SYRIA OVER A NATURAL GAS PIPELINE?

5) "Where the hell is Israel in all of this?"
Israel is bogged down with Gaza and Hamas. And they also have no more respect for Team Obama than most of the U.S., since our Islamic President has been anti-Israel since the beginning. Even now there are Muslim Brotherhood members working in the White House and other government agencies. (And you wondered why the Boston Bombing investigation took so long to absolutely, positively, make-damn-sure about IDing the Muslim terrorists?)

www.westernjournalism.com...
"MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD" INFILTRATES THE WHITE HOUSE

a reply to: MKMoniker

"Why have the US/NSA not intercepted every single one of the calls, emails, internet transmissions

cause the smart one's converted back to type writters.

and the written word,, actually written, not digitized in any form.

want to share a secret,,read a book.

a reply to: MKMoniker

and ISIS,,,Israel is bogged down with Gaza and Hamas.,,REMEMBER THE opps, Isil involvement,
providing Hamas a few of the
International Isis Brigade,,at there command,
"yeah they speak Hebrew",,hell there from the area,,duh,,of course there good Infiltrators,,

now u owe us one.said the isil too the Hammasian.

And so Quatar got its 11B arms agreement.