Any landlords here?

I have an issue I wouldn't mind some input on if anyone has any experience in the area.

I own 2 lots adjoined to my own and one has a house on it and the other lot is empty, the lots are side by side.

The house I rented to my wife's mother and step father which was a big mistake in hindsight. They fixed the place up nicely and take care of it really well but have no concept of other people's rights. They feel they can do what they want when they want to do it.
The empty lot I had plans for to use for an RV storage site so I could make a few bucks with the property.

The step-father bought a 10' x 10' shed and placed it on the empty lot without permission and is using it for storage. He also bought and planted a couple of small apple tree's on the lot without permission. I pretty much give them free reign on their lot to do as they wish but he feels because the other lot is behind his and I wasn't using it that he can do what he pleases with it also.

Last weekend they had a band set up in the backyard playing extremely loud music till almost midnight and partying. Nobody called the cops and I was the only one to complain and had them shut it down. Almost got into it with a bunch of 20 somethings down there who were being very disrespectful because I asked them to quiet down.

One problem is that when they moved in there was never a lease agreement filled out since it was my wife's parents we just kinda had an oral agreement. Since I we are having an issue now with boundries and general respect for the neighbors I downloaded a general lease agreement basically outlining their and my responsibilities in the relationship and asked them to sign it..........

Well, that's when TSHTF (Monday) and I started getting text messages calling me everything under the sun and him claiming that I was being unfair because he is a veteran (not sure what that has to do with it) and he didn't fight for his country to "live under some pricks thumb".
I have no control over my own property anymore (he actually tells everyone that he owns it and rents US a house).

I am going down in the morning and ask if they are going to sign the lease agreement (I am sure they ripped it up and threw it away)
I am going to tell them either sign the agreement and live by the rules (and move the shed and apple trees to your property) or else you have 90 days to find a new place to live. My wife is fed up also and is behind me 100% so that's not an issue.

So what do you think? Am I being a "prick" or do the masses think I am justified in feeling taken advantage of?

No comments are going to change the direction I am heading in most likely. I am just curious of public opinion on this matter.

Also any landlords with any advice would be appreciated.

a reply to: mwood

I think you are doing the right thing though you may find evicting them a bit difficult without a lease agreement though it is still possible of course. If they refuse to sign and refuse to move those things off your property you can remove them but FYI you can't keep the stuff either to the trash or... whatever the local regulations say on such matters.

At one time I rented a house out but it wasn't worth the headache. People can be scum.

a reply to: mwood

What state do you live in? The law in that state determines a great deal of your options.

Generally, if you have tenants without a lease, the state assumes a standard month to month agreement. In most jurisdictions you could force an eviction in about a 30 day timeframe.

As loam noted, laws vary state by state; however, most states recgonize basic rights for tennant and landlord without a lease...have a look at the sources available, HUD, should be a good start.

Other than that, I think before getting too much into with your in-laws, you should sit down with your wife and have a good conversation on what exactly the problem is and best ways to approach it. Perhaps she could talk some sense into her parents without you souring your relationship with them. She already knows the issue and is with you, I suppose, the remaing cause of course is if she is able to communicate that to her own family.

I don't think you are out of line by any means, they are clearly not respecint another person's property. It is a sticky situation as they are your in-laws.

a reply to: mwood

I see your profile says Arizona.

Start here: ARIZONA RESIDENTIAL LANDLORD AND TENANT ACT

You are definitely in the right for asking him to sign a lease agreement. If he disagrees, it could mean a long drawn out civil matter. I know here in California it's very difficult to get people move out of a house, once they have established residency. That goes for renters with or without a lease, or even someone just supposedly temporarily staying in your house. It's ridiculous.

As for the stuff on your lot, just tear it down. It's on your property, therefore anything placed on it is yours. Let him call the cops. They will just tell him there's nothing they can do about it and that he will have to take you to court to maybe get his money back for the items.

Best of luck to you and your wife. I rented to friends once, and that was a nightmare. I can only imagine how it must be to rent to family. It seems like the closer the person is to you, the more you should not do any type of business with them.

a reply to: mwood

I own rental property and agree with the others that the state matters. However, you will in the end have to evict them if they don't sign your lease and you want them to move.

If they do decide to sign it, you need to put in specifics about the use of your land, permissions to use your land, etc. You have to be very thorough and exact. I own property in 3 states and one international piece and I constantly worry about what's going on. I know this sounds weird, but I don't rent to family either.

All in all, you have to protect your investment. You seem like a nice person, next time be nice with a contract.

If you are in Maricopa County, here is some additional information:

justicecourts.maricopa.gov...

paper trail
paper trail
paper trail
email or mail via registered post and via a agent any correspondence such as request to sign lease, move shed etc,
Put it in writing, thats all you have to back you up in court. Thats where it will end up. Cover yourself now.

I am in Arizona and the way I understand it is if there is no lease agreement it is considered a month to month lease.

Believe me, we have talked about it for a long time. This situation has been going on for 2 years and is just coming to a head now.

We have both tried talking to them over and over again and the her mother isn't too bad the guy is the problem but the mother in law just turn a blind eye to his problems and lets him do what he wants. He is emotionally and verbally abusive to her and she just goes with the flow instead of making waves with him. It don't help that he is OCD and Bi-polar and although I am not a doctor I think he has other issues also on top those issues. Being an alcoholic and he smokes weed daily along with his other meds don't help matters.

My mother rented the empty lot a year ago and he forced her to move by being a lunatic on a daily basis. Damage to her RV she had parked there and was living in happened a few times but I couldn't prove anything. She finally moved into town and bought a house. I figure they can do the same.

Thanks for all the advice so far.

One last resource for you:

www.arizonalandlordtenantblog.com...

a reply to: loam


I am in Gila county..

a reply to: mwood

Here you go:

www.gilacountyaz.gov...

Scroll down to the EVICTION ACTION FORMS / FORCIBLE DETAINER section.

originally posted by: ThePublicEnemyNo1
a reply to: mwood

I own rental property and agree with the others that the state matters. However, you will in the end have to evict them if they don't sign your lease and you want them to move.

If they do decide to sign it, you need to put in specifics about the use of your land, permissions to use your land, etc. You have to be very thorough and exact. I own property in 3 states and one international piece and I constantly worry about what's going on. I know this sounds weird, but I don't rent to family either.

All in all, you have to protect your investment. You seem like a nice person, next time be nice with a contract.

I specified in the lease agreement EXACTLY where their property lines are and what they may do and may not do without written permission. That's the issue. He does not want to be told what he can do or not do by "some prick".

I have never owned rental property before and never rented to anyone. This is turning into being a nightmare.

I would rather the house set empty to be honest with you all than bother with trying to rent it.

originally posted by: zazzafrazz
paper trail
paper trail
paper trail
email or mail via registered post and via a agent any correspondence such as request to sign lease, move shed etc,
Put it in writing, thats all you have to back you up in court. Thats where it will end up. Cover yourself now.

This is a very good point, make copies as well.

I would add make audio/video recordings of your interactions regarding the matter. I beleive Arizona is a one-party state, meaning you do not need to get consent, or give notice, to anyone else involved in the conversation you are recording.

I always had a rule about borrowing money to family......should have carried over the rule to renting.

a reply to: mwood

I manged 13 properties in a medium sized city and it is quite easy even without a lease to evict. Here in SD there is a 3 day eviction served by the Sheriff. If you are in AZ. But you have to have boundaries for sure, I would do as you say give them the option to sign the lease an abide by it or they have to go. If you really want to make it clear move the shed and trees and then bill him on the eviction notice.

I noticed a couple things that could pop up in this process in reading that link. You need good documentation of the rent paid, if he is making modifications he could claim you abandon the property and claim squatters rights. I would move those things off you extra lot tomorrow. Extra Ref

Yeah, when I go down in the morning I will have a recorder in my pocket just in case things go south it will be on tape.

Have made copies of the text messages also just in case.

a reply to: mwood

That must be the lease they don't want to sign, right? The one with all the rules?

If I were you, I would evict them immediately...ASAP. That doesn't sound like a decent living situation for you or your wife. I know it sounds easier said than done, but I've offered my brother who fell on hard times for a couple of months to stay with my family. He did and I had to kick him out. Regardless the reason, it was difficult to do. You just gotta knuckle up and do it. Sounds like you and your wife are on the same page.

I feel bad for you

Well, we'll see in the morning if they want to follow the rules and sign the lease agreement.

This is the last chance I am giving them. It would be better to evict them but for my wife's families sake I am giving them one more chance to straighten up. If they refuse to sign it, out they go.

I appreciate all the great advice and help on the matter. I will come on tomorrow and update on what happened.

If you don't hear from me I am in jail....lol

I am NOT planning on letting it get into a physical altercation with him but with the way he is who knows.

I know I won't be the one starting it and I will have recordings of the conversation so I will have proof if he does.

Thanks again,

Tune in tomorrow......

Same BAT TIME......

Same BAT CHANNEL !