Defining Zionism.

"I'm not supporting anti-Semitism. I'm all for anti-Zionism."

I hear this much lately.

Merriam-Webster defines it as. .

"Zi·on·ism
noun \ˈzī-ə-ˌni-zəm\

: political support for the creation and development of a Jewish homeland in Israel"

I got thrown other definitions recently. Political Zionism and religious Zionism.

Webster's does not have definition of those. So I offer this forum to further define what is meant, if not the elimination of the country of Israel.

Now I am all for peace. I think I made that fairly clear. War is stupid and war sucks and war is wrong and war is bad.

But peace at what cost?

Is the only road to peace the destruction, the elimination of Israel?

Is that what people want when they say they are anti-Zionist?

Is there any other alternative?

I open this thread to simply define Zionism. Many people are debating this, and I want a clear understanding to what people want.

What will be the final bill for peace?

Thank you for your time,

Regards,

beez

The term "Zionism" has evolved. It means the continued interests of Israel.

Since the violence began in Israel and Gaza this month, my Facebook page has been littered with both pro- and anti-Israel sentiments. The loudest voices are undoubtedly the ugliest: militant Zionists removed from the reality of Palestinian suffering who wear IDF T-shirts as if they are Toronto Maple Leafs jerseys. And militant Palestinians who decry the civilian death toll in Gaza but refuse to denounce Hamas’s rocket attacks, which, were it not for Israel’s Iron Dome technology—let’s face it, something out of a Harry Potter movie—would kill countless civilians.

www.macleans.ca...

That article is one of the most unbiased, well thought out pieces on this issue. And yes, Emma is Jewish.

a reply to: intrepid

So "Zionism" doesn't mean "Zionism" anymore?

Some have openly stated that they'd like to see Israel gone, while others parse the definition.

I'd like to see both sides come to terms, but I fear that Hamas won't be happy until Israel is no more. Unless I'm wrong in that.

a reply to: beezzer

In my own little world...
I'd say I'm partially anti-Zionist...

If we go with original 1900s Zionism, it was a decent ideology...

Now, I'm not so sure!!!


I'd like there to be an Israeli state...
But not the overbearing, dominatrix she is at the moment!!!


Peace Beezzer!!!

Peace? It's simple.

A. destroy all military weapons.
B. solve disputes with words not bullets.
C. try to understand why others feel the way they do.
D. respect each other.

Peace is simple.

Apparently war is more fun?!?

edit - I don't know what to tell you besides Hamas is anti zionist.

originally posted by: minusinfinity
Peace? It's simple.

A. destroy all military weapons.
B. solve disputes with words not bullets.
C. try to understand why others feel the way they do.
D. respect each other.

Peace is simple.

Apparently war is more fun?!?

War is more profitable. Can't make the big bucks with too much peace.

a reply to: beezzer

True.

it makes me sad.

a reply to: beezzer

political support for the creation and development of a Jewish homeland in Israel"

Ideological and actual support for the creation and development of a Jewish homeland in Israel at all costs. The belief that the land in question is granted by birthright to the Jewish ethnicity and/or religion.

took a crack at it.

a reply to: beezzer

Since the world revolves around money...

Peace can never be...

From the Jewish Virtual Libray:

The term “Zionism” was coined in 1890 by Nathan Birnbaum.

Its general definition means the national movement for the return of the Jewish people to their homeland and the resumption of Jewish sovereignty in the Land of Israel.

Since the establishment of the State of Israel in 1948, Zionism has come to include the movement for the development of the State of Israel and the protection of the Jewish nation in Israel through support for the Israel Defense Forces.

From inception, Zionism avocated tangible as well as spiritual aims. Jews of all persuasions - left, right, religious and secular - formed the Zionist movement and worked together toward its goals.

Disagreements in philosophy has led to rifts in the Zionist movement of the years and a number of separate forms have emerged, notably: Political Zionism; Religious Zionism; Socialist Zionism and Territorial Zionism.

www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org...

I define zionism as an agressive nationalist movement.

a reply to: beezzer

I had wondered the same thing, than I found this international group of Jewish people who are adamantly against Zionism and what those supporting it have done. It appears that according to the Torah, the very state of Israel is a blasphemy. This is independent of the atrocious crimes that state has been orchestrating since the UN gave them the Palestinians land.

Looking at the interests that created the UN is an interesting history in and of itself and those interests motives could at the least be said to be questionable.

Here is their site

www.nkusa.org...

quick description of them

The name was given to a group of Orthodox Jews in Jerusalem who refused (and still refuse) to recognize the existence or authority of the so-called "State of Israel" and made (and still make) a point of publicly demonstrating their position, the position of the Torah and authentic unadulterated Judaism.

a brief description of their view on Zionism

The truth is that the Jewish faith and Zionism are two very different philosophies. They are as opposite as day and night. The Jewish people have existed for thousands of years. In their two thousand years of Divinely decreed exile no Jew ever sought to end this exile and establish independent political sovereignty anywhere. The people's sole purpose was the study and fulfillment of the Divine commandments of the Torah. The Zionist movement created the Israeli state. The latter is a persuasion less than one hundred years old. Its essential goal was and is to change the nature of the Jewish people from that of a religious entity to a political movement. From Zionism's inception the spiritual leaders of the Jewish people stood in staunch opposition to it.

originally posted by: InverseLookingGlass
a reply to: beezzer

political support for the creation and development of a Jewish homeland in Israel"

Ideological and actual support for the creation and development of a Jewish homeland in Israel at all costs. The belief that the land in question is granted by birthright to the Jewish ethnicity and/or religion.

took a crack at it.

Thank you for your definition. So that's how you see that side of the equation.

Far enough.

a reply to: elementalgrove

Thanks for the reply.

The fact remains, Israel is a country. We can't just globally say, "Get back to walkin'!

What do we do NOW?

a reply to: FyreByrd

I saw that definition as well, I just thought Webster's definition would be neutral enough for discussion.

a reply to: beezzer

Wish I had the answer to that one my friend!

Sadly it appears that someone would like to fulfill biblical prophecies, for that is where it seems to be heading!

Short of everyone sending peace keepers to Gaza I mean by the 1000's with food,water, and medicine, there is no way to stop the IDF. This in turn would stop Hamas.

a reply to: beezzer

Well, color me confused, I thought you were looking for definitions and not the merits/demerits of any given definition.

originally posted by: FyreByrd
a reply to: beezzer

Well, color me confused, I thought you were looking for definitions and not the merits/demerits of any given definition.

I appreciate the contribution, I just stated how I tried to be neutral in my own definition.

a reply to: beezzer

When you say elimination what do you mean? If you mean elimination of a people then no.

If you mean elimination of a "country name" that excludes all other religions and races from that country by putting them to death, taking their homes and forcing them off their family land and homes, then yes.

a reply to: beezzer

: political support for the creation and development of a Jewish homeland in Israel"

I don't know who invented that one but it isn't honest. Nothing about them is.
Political support… bah. What they really mean is, "Send lawyers guns and money".

originally posted by: OpinionatedB
a reply to: beezzer

When you say elimination what do you mean? If you mean elimination of a people then no.

Okay. Not kill everyone in Israel.

If you mean elimination of a "country name" that excludes all other religions and races from that country by putting them to death, taking their homes and forcing them off their family land and homes, then yes.

Just tell everyone in Israel that they can have their own country, they just can't make any laws.

(I know, snarky, but that's how I'm reading this)